BB THE GOAT

[RobertWeathers]

Please be clearer next time then. You said Super Bowls, as in more than one, you didn't say 6.

OK. Who else wins 6?

I said my list is of head coaches who could have won a Super Bowl with Brady in his prime. Then I said many could have won multiple and a few could have won more than 2. I think Reid could have approached 6 with Brady. Payton possibly too (but with a lower probability). Most of the head coaches I named are relatively young so I'd need more information before I could confidently say more than 1 (or 2).

You can't overlook that Brady won a Super Bowl in his first season with a new head coach at age 43. Brady had a tremendous season in 2020, and 2021, but I would say he was past his prime. When you watch film of Brady throughout his career, you can see by the time he reached 40, his pocket mobility was (slightly) diminishing and it was probably most evident this season.

But in Brady's prime (2007-2017), how could you doubt he could win at least one Super Bowl with (most) of the head coaches I listed? I'm seriously asking the question.

Indulge me if you would... how many Super Bowls does Belichick win had Bledsoe remained the starter? How many Super Bowls would Belichick have won with Philip Rivers? Roethlisberger? Peyton Manning? Eli? And I don't know isn't an answer. It's a hypothetical question.

Brady's the greatest quarterback of all time so I don't think it's earth shattering to think he could have won at least won Super Bowl with multiple other head coaches throughout the history of the NFL.

I'm not playing hypotheticals.

BB and Manning wouldn't have worked long term.

Reid doesn't have the clock mgt or defensive mind and Payton doesn't have the GM skills or commitment to D or ST.

It's over.

 

[All3Phases]

I'm not playing hypotheticals.

BB and Manning wouldn't have worked long term.

Wait, isnt this a hypothetical? Lol

 

[Ring 6]

Please be clearer next time then. You said Super Bowls, as in more than one, you didn't say 6.

I said my list is of head coaches who could have won a Super Bowl with Brady in his prime. Then I said many could have won multiple and a few could have won more than 2. I think Reid could have approached 6 with Brady. Payton possibly too (but with a lower probability). Most of the head coaches I named are relatively young so I'd need more information before I could confidently say more than 1 (or 2).

You can't overlook that Brady won a Super Bowl in his first season with a new head coach at age 43. Brady had a tremendous season in 2020, and 2021, but I would say he was past his prime. When you watch film of Brady throughout his career, you can see by the time he reached 40, his pocket mobility was (slightly) diminishing and it was probably most evident this season.

But in Brady's prime (2007-2017), how could you doubt he could win at least one Super Bowl with (most) of the head coaches I listed? I'm seriously asking the question.

Indulge me if you would... how many Super Bowls does Belichick win had Bledsoe remained the starter? How many Super Bowls would Belichick have won with Philip Rivers? Roethlisberger? Peyton Manning? Eli? And I don't know isn't an answer. It's a hypothetical question.

Brady's the greatest quarterback of all time so I don't think it's earth shattering to think he could have won at least won Super Bowl with multiple other head coaches throughout the history of the NFL.

You listed coaches who have never won a playoff game.

Brady and belichick won 6 SBs together. There is absolutely no way to replace one of them, much less many other players or coaches, and say they would have won. There are too many variables and too many interconnected things. Championships are earned and won, not hypothesized.

 

[Ring 6]

Without their legendary qbs? For sure based on Mac10s post. It’s unfortunate for Reid that mahomes didn’t fall in his lap 20 years earlier

You didn’t answer the question

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wait, isnt this a hypothetical? Lol

Not with his salary demands. That's not a hypothetical. That's a fact

 

[All3Phases]

Not with his salary demands. That's not a hypothetical. That's a fact

It certainly is, but it wouldve been interesting to watch him cut a HOF qb in his prime

 

[All3Phases]

You didn’t answer the question

I certainly did

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It certainly is, but it wouldve been interesting to watch him cut a HOF qb in his prime

He would trade him if that happened

 

[All3Phases]

He would trade him if that happened

I find that hard to believe

 

[Biffins]

Not including playoffs:

With Brady when he starts: 219-66
Without: 79-88

wow, he's been HC for 167 games without Brady? I didn't realize that.

 

[Biffins]

What does that have to do with my question? Is a coach "bumbling idiot" merely for failing to win a SB? Yes or no?

Is a coach merely average for having a 0.5 ish record over 170 games?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Something to consider:

BB and Brady - 3 AFCCG's and 3 Super Bowl appearances in the first 5 years. 3 Super Bowl victories.
Reid and Mahomes - 5 consecutive AFCCC's and 3 Super Bowl appearances in their first 5 years. 2 Super Bowl victories.

You are in denial if you ignore Reid/Mahomes success and that they couldn't make noise to catch Bill and Tom.

 

[ivanvamp]

Think of all the all-time great QBs who were paired with all-time great head coaches (in the Super Bowl era). Here's my list:

Noll and Bradshaw (Pittsburgh) - 13 years, 4 Conf Champ, 4 SB titles
Walsh and Montana (San Fran) - 10 years, 3 Conf Champ, 3 SB titles
Shula and Marino (Miami) - 17 years, 1 Conf Champ, 0 SB titles
Landry and Staubach (Dallas) - 11 years, 5 Conf Champ, 2 SB titles
Lombardi and Starr (Green Bay) - 2 years, 2 Conf Champ, 2 SB titles (this is warped because they had other NFL championships before the SB era)
Dungy and Peyton (Indianapolis) - 7 years, 1 Conf Champ, 1 SB title
Levy and Kelly (Buffalo) - 11 years, 4 Conf Champ, 0 SB titles
Tomlin and Roethlisberger (Pittsburgh) - 18 years, 2 Conf Champ, 1 SB title
Belichick and Brady (New England) - 20 years, 9 Conf Champ, 6 SB titles
Reid and Mahomes (Kansas City) - 6 years, 3 Conf Champ, 2 SB titles

A great QB can win without a great HC. A great HC can win without a great QB. But you don't win SIX Super Bowls without both, and no other historically great QB-HC combo has come close to what BB and TB have accomplished together.

 

[Ian]

Just an FYI, I have removed @MAC10 from this thread.

 

[Wozzy]

Agree, he sucked so badly that he played 100% of the snaps in the AFCCG 2 weeks earlier

Which changes nothing at all about how poorly he played all year, or that he was disgruntled about his contract situation.

Not really sure how youre projecting this at all

Yeah... this is me projecting.



It has nothing at all to do with the same exact posters here who find themselves in every conversation that tells us BB sucks at his job, has bumbled and stumbled his way to unprecedented success to the tune of 6 rings, and who bend over backwards to tell us a player who was statistically one of the worst starting CB's in the entire league in 2017 and was pissed off about his contract situation was going to make a big difference... and oh yeah, in his own words...



That's me projecting... meanwhile your overwhelming "BB sucks" bias... that's objective realism.

Sounds legit...

 

[All3Phases]

Which changes nothing at all about how poorly he played all year, or that he was disgruntled about his contract situation.

It changes everything, he sucked all year and was disgruntled enough to play 100% of the snaps in the AFCCG, but 0 defensive snaps in the Super Bowl?

Yeah... this is me projecting.



It has nothing at all to do with the same exact posters here who find themselves in every conversation that tells us BB sucks at his job, has bumbled and stumbled his way to unprecedented success to the tune of 6 rings, and who bend over backwards to tell us a player who was statistically one of the worst starting CB's in the entire league in 2017 and was pissed off about his contract situation was going to make a big difference... and oh yeah, in his own words...

You don’t know if he would have or could have, neither does anybody. But a guy who played 100% of the snaps the game prior all of a sudden wasn’t good enough to be given an opportunity to help a defense that had 0% chance of stopping the offense is inexcusable

That's me projecting... meanwhile your overwhelming "BB sucks" bias... that's objective realism.

Sounds legit...

Facts are objective, you saying Butler crying proved he shouldn’t have played is projection. Big difference champ

 

[Wozzy]

It changes everything, he sucked all year and was disgruntled enough to play 100% of the snaps in the AFCCG, but 0 defensive snaps in the Super Bowl?

Stats aren't your friend, he gave up the 3rd most TD's of any CB in the league.

And saying he played a lot, but played terribly is not an argument. BB gave a young player who played a lot of snaps for him entering a free agent year every chance to get himself right. Then he clearly screwed up the week leading up to the biggest game of the season... and you think he should have been given another chance because why... feelings?

You don’t know if he would have or could have, neither does anybody. But a guy who played 100% of the snaps the game prior all of a sudden wasn’t good enough to be given an opportunity to help a defense that had 0% chance of stopping the offense is inexcusable

I know that Tennessee signed him to a big contract after that season and he sucked there also. He never regained his form from his 2015-2016 Patriots run where he was decent in one of the best schemes and well coached backfields in the league. JC Jackson anyone?

The Titans had buyer's remorse almost immediately, at one point they benched Butler for performance and opted to start nickel cornerback Adoree Jackson instead. Were you over on the Titans board telling them how ridiculous it was that Butler was pinned to the bench?

Facts are objective, you saying Butler crying proved he shouldn’t have played is projection. Big difference champ

Yeah... and Butler's own admission he wasn't prepared... we can't accept that either huh champ.

Just admit you resent BB for being a meanie, or letting Tom leave in free agency, or whatever other soap opera BS grudge you're carrying... stop pretending.

 

[All3Phases]

Stats aren't your friend, he gave up the 3rd most TD's of any CB in the league.

And saying he played a lot, but played terribly is not an argument. BB gave a young player who played a lot of snaps for him entering a free agent year every chance to get himself right. Then he clearly screwed up the week leading up to the biggest game of the season... and you think he should have been given another chance because why... feelings?

I know that Tennessee signed him to a big contract after that season and he sucked there also. He never regained his form from his 2015-2016 Patriots run where he was decent in one of the best schemes and well coached backfields in the league. JC Jackson anyone?

The Titans had buyer's remorse almost immediately, at one point they benched Butler for performance and opted to play nickel cornerback Adoree Jackson instead. Were you over on the Titans board telling them how ridiculous it was that Butler was pinned to the bench? He out of the league now... why?

You mean the guy that started 100% of the games on a team that went 13-3? Not exactly some random guy that was thrown in the week prior. Unless you think BB made a mistake for 18 straight weeks? Why did he deserve a chance? Because everything that was on the field defensively didn’t work, what was the worst that could happen? One of your more talented players might make a play or two?

Yeah... and Butler's own admission he wasn't prepared... we can't accept that either champ.

Butler was on the radio this Super Bowl week saying he still isn’t sure why he didn’t play.

Just admit you resent BB for being a meanie, or letting Tom leave in free agency or whatever other soap opera BS grudge you're carrying... stop pretending.

what do I resent exactly? He wasn’t mean to me in any way.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who else noticed the fear in Jordan Richards' eyes during the National Anthem knowing he was going to play?

 

[All3Phases]

Who else noticed the fear in Jordan Richards' eyes during the National Anthem knowing he was going to play?

Fear is better than tears!!!!