BB the GM is declining

[Jackson 2]

Good point. Blount did more himself than three of this year's players. That speaks to Blount's value.

If you're serious about that, you didn't watch Dion Lewis play this season.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If you're serious about that, you didn't watch Dion Lewis play this season.

I agree.

I loved Blount and what he brought, but his YPC dropped 4 years in a row, and they wouldn't throw to him. He also couldn't ice games. He was poor in short yardage, and the subbing of the backs with him (not his fault), tipped off plays. He also needed a big seam to get rolling to do his thing, which he sadly did do a couple of times in the SB.

It is stunning beyond belief, that you go out and get Gillislee and Burkhead, have two hybrid backs to pull from, and you refuse to use one in the gameplan after being so well rested for so long. Wow. Just wow.

I like McDaniels enough, but boy oh boy does he have times in big games where he over-analyzes, and shoots himself and the entire team in the foot. And, here we are, no one talks about it, the guy is actually considering to take an entire Brinks truck and go to the cheating Colts, but he failed yet again when the chips were on the table.

When Burkhead was unleashed in the 3r dqtr, I got an immediate RB-boner, and thought we were going to win because of him being out there.

Then, whamo, he's pulled off the field for more over-management. Unbelieveable. As much as the D didn't help out to get a stop or another turnover, THIS right here is a big reason why we lost.

It should have been split backs with Lewis/Burkhead and White/Burkhead (3rd downs), all the way down the field, with a guy like Burkhead moving all around in the slot, outside, and as an RB. He would have been the ultimate decoy, at the very least, because he run inside well, outside and catch/block.

It's fascinating to me to see people rave about McDaniels with Brady under Center with loaded weaponry all around, and his focus as a gamecaller becomes cluttered. It's maddening.

We've literally lost 3 SBs over this problem. I have been begging for this for years and years, and we actually have it in spades (Gillislee rides the bench it's so deep), and McDaniels fails.

FAIL

I mean, people can get angry all day long at the D, Hightower's injury being such an issue to mask all year due to its trickle down effect, but the offense literally under-performs based on who is calling the game.

We were loaded, even with Cook s out and Edelman gone. It's just stunning, really.

I literally said this to my gf: "They're ghoing to have 2 gameplans on offense, they're holding back Burkhead and willl unleash hell in the 2nd half with him..."

Well, it started to happen and then Burkhead was kidnapped on the sideline and disappeared. Reminiscent of BJGE in the 2011 playoffs and Burkhead is clearly more dynamic than he was. Ugh.

Watching a 40 year old drop back looking for deep routes over and over, is not something I really agree with when you have an '84 SG 49ers backfield, run some West Coast concepts, and Montana on steroids under Center as the GOAT.

Blount is irrelevant. I know what BB was doing when he walked from Blount and wanted a deeper crop of dynamic backs, he goes out and gets it, and then we don't use it with a well rested and hungry Burkhead?

Where did he go? Was he hurt? Diarrhea? WTF?

This thread title is why non Pats fans hate us. We win 2 SBs/3 years and we lose oneSb in the process as Vegas favorites next year, etc, etc, and somehow our HOF GM and Coach is miraculously "declining".

Millennial fans on the web give us a real bad name.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

People are losing their minds.

Seems odd indeed. We're within a potential win with 2 minutes left in the final NFL game of the year (i.e. SB) and lots of people need to find a fall guy (seems we have big time fans of chris carter in here).

I could see if it we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs. Might join in at 3-13 myself. By 30 or 20 other teams standards we've had a heck of a season.

Now, if people want to wonder why we tend to have less defensive talent than some other teams, that could be a discussion point (draft position?). But, thinking we could maintain our current team while paying 6-7 players 50% to 60% of the cap is crazy...

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Yea letting Blount go in hindsight was an awful decision.. Gillislee did nothing for us this year and got paid way more than Blount would have ever received... and it stings that Blount also hammered us in the SB with that long TD run

Chris Long didn't want to play here anymore.. why are people forgetting that? He didn't like the scheme, he wants to be more of a pure pass rusher guy that can add to his sack totals.. BB had him playing more of an inline type guy, which also wears your body down faster over time... If Chris Long wanted to be here he would still be here

Chandler Jones is not worth the $15+ million a year he;'s getting in this system. He was a good player, but you can only give so many players top of the market deals.. and they've already got a few of those on the team with guys they feel more confident in long term as leaders, etc... It would be nice to have him for sure, but not at the cap hit he's carrying

Dwayne Allen if he restructures his contract would be an excellent addition to the team as an inline blocking tight end.. hes very good in that role, he's just getting paid more than that is worth.. if you fix his contract, hes worth the roster spot

As for the draft, they only had 4 picks in 2017.. and their top pick Rivers was IRed.. Garcia had some type of non football injury/ilness.. Deatrich Wise contributed throughout the season as well as could be expected for a 4th rounder.. McDermott is on the Bills now, but he was a 6th rounder and a long shot

2016 draft they got Thuney who is a solid LG, Brissett who they traded for their 3rd rounder back, Vincent Valentine who looks to be a nice prospect at interior DL, Malcolm Mitchell who contributed to the SB in 2016.. Elandon Roberts who has been a starter all year for the Pats (albeit not a great one.. hes more of a role player being forced into a starters role)..

2015 they got malcolm brown who is a solid DL, Richards who is a great special teams player.. they just drafted him way too high... Grissom, who has been contributing a little and developing.. Trey Flowers who has been a good DE and was a starter all year.. Shaq Mason who is a starter at RG and dominant in the run game... Cardona who is our starting long snapper...

That same draft they got Easley, they also got Garoppolo who they traded for a 2nd rounder.. Bryan Stork who was their starting center until he got those concussions... James White who was a Super Bowl hero in 2016 and a solid contributer... Fleming who was starting at RT in the Super Bowl and doing a solid job of it...




So no, the drafts haven;t been that bad... they've had a few clunkers in the early rounds which stinks, but it happens and they're above the curve when it comes to success rate with picks.

How is it an "awful" decision? How many more times can you scapegoat types seriously let our offensive gameplans and gamecalling with who is used when, be ignored as a main failure in these games?

Why do we target guys in FA or the draft, and then ignore them in the most obvious of spots in big games? Can you answer this question?

Blount is an old school runner. He would have been a HOF back in previous eras if he wanted to be, but he's a tad limited in the passing game.

Philly's D was atrocious, but we failed to include the backs more in it.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

How can anyone click "disagree" regarding plain statistical facts? Jeez.

How can anyone be happy that the dynamic Burkhead, healthy and barely used, rode the bench?

Care to answer that one?

Don't make me show you how many important losses we've had with this problem for over 10 years now with McDoofus.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

This is the typical view what the Patriots have accomplished through minds addled by sports talk radio..

To stay this good this long requires a lot of questionable decisions, but consider Denver this year, the wait until next year Miami Dolphins or many of the teams in the NFL it becomes obvious difficult it is to do all of this.. even teams like Carolina have had difficult times rebounding from their Superbowl appearances..

There needs to be some sort of longitudinal study of every team, their draft choices, their draft position, their FA acquisitions and season records the Pats would either be at the top or close to it.

Despite what some believe or hear, BB does not make these decisions in a vacuum.. there is a whole host of characters involved.

Every team has hits and misses, every team has draft busts and every team makes mistakes.. this is not Madden, it is the NFL.

Millennials don't get this. They have been conditioned to believe it is Madden and that fantasy stats are what make the game.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

LGB would have been inactive as well this year when Lewis, White and Burkhead were healthy. It would not have made any difference. It was a numbers game that kept Gillislee inactive not him being a bust.

Absolutely. How on earth are more people not asking why Burkhead was not the MVP of this game and why he wasn't used after early in the 3rd qtr?

It's just the strangest thing with the offense, the decisions and the personnel in these losses.

If we gave BJGE 3-4 more carries in the right spots of SB 46, we win it.

 

[luuked]

It's just the strangest thing with the offense, the decisions and the personnel in these losses.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. For some reason you have this weird idea that the Pats started out slowly on offense when in reality we didnt. Individual mistakes on third downs (Brady dropping a pass, Cooks jumping into a player instead towards the sideline, Gronk dropping a pass right into his chest) stopped the early drives otherwise we most probably would have hung 50 points on the Eagles.

Josh called a great game. Unfortunately the depth level players on defense are not as talented as their counter parts on offense otherwise this would have been a 2 score blowout.

 

[Ivan]

Seems odd indeed. We're within a potential win with 2 minutes left in the final NFL game of the year (i.e. SB) and lots of people need to find a fall guy (seems we have big time fans of chris carter in here).

I could see if it we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs. Might join in at 3-13 myself. By 30 or 20 other teams standards we've had a heck of a season.

Now, if people want to wonder why we tend to have less defensive talent than some other teams, that could be a discussion point (draft position?). But, thinking we could maintain our current team while paying 6-7 players 50% to 60% of the cap is crazy...

Agree completely. The Patriots average draft position in every round, throughout this era has been 28-29. Simply maintaining competitiveness given that disadvantage is, in and of itself, a remarkable achievement.

 

[Nehalem]

I don't get all the Legarrete Blount love.

Blount in the playoffs last year
8-31
16-47
11-31

total 35-109 3.1 avg

This year before the SB
15 carries for 40 yards.

In 11 playoff games he has 3 good games. Two were against the Colts

And the 3rd was the SB.

 

[PatsFan2]

7 Straight AFCCG and 4 SB appearances with 2 Lombardis in the Gronk era. I would not consider that declining. He knows what he's doing although that Butler benching still deserves some explanation.

You are as good as your last game in Football because winning is everything. How did the Pats fare in their last game again??

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. For some reason you have this weird idea that the Pats started out slowly on offense when in reality we didnt. Individual mistakes on third downs (Brady dropping a pass, Cooks jumping into a player instead towards the sideline, Gronk dropping a pass right into his chest) stopped the early drives otherwise we most probably would have hung 50 points on the Eagles.

Josh called a great game. Unfortunately the depth level players on defense are not as talented as their counter parts on offense otherwise this would have been a 2 score blowout.

We were settling for FGs, acting all confused on how to score a TD against a weak pass D with loaded weaponry and Burkhead not on the field.

A Lewis/Burkhead or Burkhead/White (on 3rds) would have confused the living daylights out of their LBs/DBs.

So, you're good with us settling for FGs? Don't we structuture our team around red zone D, holding to FGs, because that is what our D tries to do beacause we know our offense is lethal.

Saying Josh called a "great" game is disturbing. He called a very mediocre game, conceptually. Stats do not equate to TDs.

 

[PatsFan2]

If Brady doesn't get strip sacked, we're not getting all of these threads. That should tell you what you need to know.

And if the Patriots Defense got close enough just once to sniff Nick Foles crutch game over Patriots win. That should tell you what you need to know.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I don't get all the Legarrete Blount love.

Blount in the playoffs last year
8-31
16-47
11-31

total 35-109 3.1 avg

This year before the SB
15 carries for 40 yards.

In 11 playoff games he has 3 good games. Two were against the Colts

And the 3rd was the SB.

Yep.

His best attribute was goal line runs in heavy formations, obviously. If he didn't have a seam to work with where the OLine blocked perfectly, he's sort of one dimensional.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

And if the Patriots Defense got close enough just once to sniff Nick Foles crutch game over Patriots win. That should tell you what you need to know.

What is a "crutch game"?

 

[luuked]

We were settling for FGs, acting all confused on how to score a TD against a weak pass D with loaded weaponry and Burkhead not on the field.

A Lewis/Burkhead or Burkhead/White (on 3rds) would have confused the living daylights out of their LBs/DBs.

So, you're good with us settling for FGs? Don't we structuture our team around red zone D, holding to FGs, because that is what our D tries to do beacause we know our offense is lethal.

Saying Josh called a "great" game is disturbing. He called a very mediocre game, conceptually. Stats do not equate to TDs.

Again. Three of our drives stalled because of three individual mistakes by Brady, Gronk and Cooks. That has nothing to do with playcalling or strategy but with execution. The rest of the game was near flawless except for Brady being too greedy and ignoring White in the flat only to be strip/sacked on what would have been he game winning drive.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Again. Three of our drives stalled because of three individual mistakes by Brady, Gronk and Cooks. That has nothing to do with playcalling or strategy but with execution. The rest of the game was near flawless except for Brady being too greedy and ignoring White in the flat only to be strip/sacked on what would have been he game winning drive.

Don't agree and I think your lack of understanding how important a coordinator is in real time, is why you're not getting this.

I heard the exact same comments about Brady in SB 46. "If we had won, Brady is the MVP".

Ok. That's possibly true.

But, guess what, Brady led us to ZERO points in the entire half with poor work on the Giants side of the field and it was directly tied to no use of BJGE, subbing of the backs for play tells, and bad decisions by Brady himself.

This is no way to say Brady played a ba game. He obviously had a great game. My point here is, if you're going to save Burkhead and unleash hell as a suprise, hidden away from gamefilm for SIX WEEKS, where on god's green earth was he, even in the second half?!!

Use him in the first half to get a big lead! Was he hurt, did he have the trots, did he morph into a guy with super powers where he can make himself invisible?

So, stats wise, he was fantastic, but it there are points in these games where the personnel, packages and playcalls in real time are critical.

That's my poiint. Clearly, if we are settling for FGS, it can't be just "Oh, well, the Eagles D i s "4th ranked" so they're really good."

No, it means we didn't dictate on offense in the red zone. Offensive league, offensive era.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Again. Three of our drives stalled because of three individual mistakes by Brady, Gronk and Cooks. That has nothing to do with playcalling or strategy but with execution. The rest of the game was near flawless except for Brady being too greedy and ignoring White in the flat only to be strip/sacked on what would have been he game winning drive.

I don't agree. It can't always be just "execution", because how you set up plays, allows your players TO execute better.

Get it?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

And if the Patriots Defense got close enough just once to sniff Nick Foles crutch game over Patriots win. That should tell you what you need to know.

Also, your point about the D, and no question, if they could have gotten 1/2 4th and 1 stops, I do think we win, but we can't resort to kicking FGs in the red zone and expect to win a game like that.

The league is essentially coming down to what you do in the red zone. If you kick FGs, you'll likely lose. We not only settled, we see our crap kicker choke it down again, and then I learn the field had logos removed so it was slick where Cardona was snapping. Super.

I think some of you are having a hard time accepting this offensive era and how Philly's D was subpar, too.

This scapegoating of the D, acting like offense and STs don't matter, is funny to me.

Our offense strugggled in the first half a bit, we had a fraud TD called against us for Goodell's cheating, but our offense could have hit better in the first half.

 

[maust]

Arguing the offensive play calling in a game where the defense was completely undressed seems a tad extraneous. Doing it in a thread about the GM's performance adds to the. perception