Barmore Pulled Over. Claims "racism". [10/19 update: apologizes]

[Patsfan1645]

Sounds like one of those cute meet stories or am I wrong?

LOL...I wish. She had two screaming kids in car seats that are mine at the time of the stop. I thought it was a humorous interaction we had but she to this day doesn't see it that way. There was a threat of going to jail to be trumped by a threat of no action anymore. Guess who flinched first. I said I will see you at dinner sweetie

 

[Patsfan1645]

This is more of a public service reply.

Never consent to searches. The police can still search if they want for whatever reasons they want to make up: officer safety, they smell something, etc. But by not consenting, the door is still open to invalidate the search in court. If you consent, that door is slammed shut.

That's the atmosphere they want to create: "Why aren't you being reasonable? Just cooperate and this will go well." That's a straight up lie. From the second they decide to pull you over, they are looking for ways to charge you with something. Be polite, give license and registration, obey lawful orders, but do not consent to any searches and DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, beyond pleasantries.

Talking can never help you. You cannot talk your way out of being arrested, but you can talk your way into a conviction. Do not answer questions. Every single question is intended to help build a case against you. If you're asked to do a breathalyzer but haven't been drinking much or at all, do it, otherwise you lose your license for 180 days (in MA, at least). Decline all roadside tests: they are difficult even when sober, are not compulsory, and your refusal is not admissible in court. It can ONLY hurt you to do roadside tests, never help. Remember, innocence is the presumption in the USA (for now).

All of you with nothing to hide, all of you innocent folks: this post is ESPECIALLY for you. By keeping your mouth shut ("Officer, my lawyer has advised me not to answer questions, sorry") and exercising your other civil rights, you may cause a bit of friction during a stop (if you're polite, that's less likely), but if the kid who detailed your car last month accidently dropped a little baggie of cocaine under the back seat, you'll be glad you followed this advice. If you consented to the search, you're in hot water when it's found, but if you didn't, they'd need to show probable cause or the search is not valid. Tinted windows and FL plates is not probable cause.

Anyway, hope this helps some.

I don't agree with everything said here but respect your view. I'm not looking to get into a debate on the legal nuances of police encounters, bottom line don't break the law and you have no worries.

 

[Patsfan1645]

I had a similar experience in the late 90s of getting pulled over. I didn't have tint (was too young and poor), but what I did have was a really beat up early 70s Charger. I got pulled over four times in a week at one point. The breaking point was when I was putting air in the tire at the gas station and police rolled up on me. They rushed out of the car and drew down when I stood up. After determining I was just a kid trying to inflate the tires on his ****box, I finally I asked why I was being targeted, and was told they did indeed have an APB on Charger that matched the description of mine.

Sure enough, I had a lot of problems in some neighborhoods when I rolled through with that car. It had a twin with a really, really sus owner I guess...

My practice was if I stopped you on a BOLO and you weren't the person I was looking for I didn't just tell you.....we are looking for a guy/car that looks like you because most people think that's BS. I would let them listen to the police radio and I would ask the dispatcher to put out the BOLO info so they could hear it. They may still be unhappy about the encounter but at least they knew I wasn't just making it up.

I have some funny stories on BOLOs but that would be in person over beers

 

[Stu Pidassle]

This is outstanding advice. Expand this to include police/law enforcement of any stripe, to include detectives and any other kinds of investigators.

Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer.

To be fair to the cops at the scene, this advice is aimed at what could happen after the situation. The lawyers view of the world is to always avoid opportunities to incriminate yourself. The same logic applies to taking a breathalyzer if you have been pulled over for DUI.

 

[Nikolai]

To be fair to the cops at the scene, this advice is aimed at what could happen after the situation. The lawyers view of the world is to always avoid opportunities to incriminating yourself. The same logic applies to taking a breathalyzer if you have been pulled over for DUI.

That's fair. Anything I'm talking about is all about not giving a DA ammunition, because that's what really matters after navigating any risks at the stop itself.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I don't agree with everything said here but respect your view. I'm not looking to get into a debate on the legal nuances of police encounters, bottom line don't break the law and you have no worries.

This is the advice any criminal defense attorney worth his salt would give: be polite, obey lawful orders, do not answer questions (5A), and do not consent to searches (4A). You are not required to and should not assist the police in their criminal investigation, and when pulled over for ANYTHING that investigation is underway. If things go sideways, ask for a supervisor.

Also note that if the police violate civil rights that are “clearly established” at the time of that violation — that means you have to know your rights AND assert them during the stop — and move forward and violate your rights anyway, not only can you sue the government, but your attorney can move to strip officers of qualified immunity so they can be sued directly.

Your bottom line is incorrect. Innocent people go to prison all the time. I gave an illustration in my other post about the detailer who inadvertently drops drugs in the backseat of your car (real case, btw). “That’s not mine” doesn’t work. If you don’t consent to the search and they either don’t search or their probable cause is invalidated, there’s no case at all (never found it) or it gets tossed in court.

I’m not looking to get into a debate either, but your attitude is typical of the law abiding citizen who thinks they have nothing to worry about during police encounters. Case law is littered with counter examples to your stance.

There are good cops who know the law, keep their egos in check, avoid power trips, respect civil rights, and are genuinely interested in doing the right thing. But you don’t know if you’ve been stopped by one of them. You must assume the contrary.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

To be fair to the cops at the scene, this advice is aimed at what could happen after the situation. The lawyers view of the world is to always avoid opportunities to incriminate yourself. The same logic applies to taking a breathalyzer if you have been pulled over for DUI.

If you skip the breathalyzer in MA, it’s an automatic six month license suspension. Just fyi.

 

[Patsfan1645]

This is the advice any criminal defense attorney worth his salt would give: be polite, obey lawful orders, do not answer questions (5A), and do not consent to searches (4A). You are not required to and should not assist the police in their criminal investigation, and when pulled over for ANYTHING that investigation is underway. If things go sideways, ask for a supervisor.

Also note that if the police violate civil rights that are “clearly established” at the time of that violation — that means you have to know your rights AND assert them during the stop — and move forward and violate your rights anyway, not only can you sue the government, but your attorney can move to strip officers of qualified immunity so they can be sued directly.

Your bottom line is incorrect. Innocent people go to prison all the time. I gave an illustration in my other post about the detailer who inadvertently drops drugs in the backseat of your car (real case, btw). “That’s not mine” doesn’t work. If you don’t consent to the search and they either don’t search or their probable cause is invalidated, there’s no case at all (never found it) or it gets tossed in court.

I’m not looking to get into a debate either, but your attitude is typical of the law abiding citizen who thinks they have nothing to worry about during police encounters. Case law is littered with counter examples to your stance.

There are good cops who know the law, keep their egos in check, avoid power trips, respect civil rights, and are genuinely interested in doing the right thing. But you don’t know if you’ve been stopped by one of them. You must assume the contrary.

And yet here we are.........Of course innocent people have been convicted, the system is not perfect. But the vast majority of people who are convicted did in fact commit a crime. So I stand by the general rule of thumb don't commit crimes and chances are you will be fine. Your attitude is every cop is out to get me which is not accurate. I have shared where my view point comes from but you have not.....just curious if your going to share that little bit of information.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

And yet here we are.........Of course innocent people have been convicted, the system is not perfect. But the vast majority of people who are convicted did in fact commit a crime. So I stand by the general rule of thumb don't commit crimes and chances are you will be fine. Your attitude is every cop is out to get me which is not accurate. I have shared where my view point comes from but you have not.....just curious if your going to share that little bit of information.

Yes, the system is not perfect. Of course it's much harder to convict innocent people. It's ever harder if those innocent people assert their constitutional rights. Talking to the police can only hurt you. Even true statements that a person believes are exculpatory can damage a defendant.

"Where were you last night at 9:30 pm?"

"Home watching TV."

Law enforcement has a witness that says someone matching your description was near a certain bar where a murder occurred. In fact, that witness is an old friend from high school and is SURE it was you. But you were, in fact, home watching TV. It doesn't matter, because that witness is willing to testify. Now the prosecution can tell the jury you lied about where you were. Do you see the problem yet?

My attitude is NOT that every cop is out to get me. I said exactly that in my closing paragraph, and it's unfair that you'd erect a straw man like that. The problem is you don't KNOW which cops are good or bad or in between when you have a police encounter. And there's always a lot at stake.

Since you are a former/current police office let me ask you a question: if I allow you to search my vehicle and you find something illegal, and I say, "It's not mine", will you believe me? Let's say it is a small bag of fentanyl from the previous owner of the car that got wedged between the seats and subsequently fell out. I'm getting arrested, right? I'm not talking my way out, right? Let's say I'm a young man wearing a tie dye t-shirt driving a rusty Honda Accord from 2003. I'm going in the back of the cruiser, right? You know I am, even though it really isn't mine. Now I'm in deep water. But if I hadn't let you search the car, I'm going home after getting the speeding ticket for 45 in a 35 zone. If you don't already have a K-9, you can't wait for the drug dogs to show up because there's a Supreme Court decision that states that I can't be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to resolve the initial reason for the stop. And believe me, "reasonably necessary" is a big deal in the courts. I rest my case.

As for me, I'm not a ex-convict or anything like that. I've never been arrested. My mother's best friend's husband was chief of police in my town and our family was very close to theirs. He danced (excellent dancer, btw) with my ex-wife at our wedding. I respect law enforcement and believe the majority have good intentions. Again, the problem is that you can't possibly know who you are going to get. The good cops don't wear good cop insignias. You should politely assert all of your rights during every police encounter. I've done this in a non-confrontational manner for the handful of traffic stops I've had, and I've never had a problem.

I'm not going to give you my occupation but you might be able to figure it out. Or maybe not! I value my privacy, sorry.

 

[condon84]

Here is the entire video. While there are ******* racists cops, a lot of these interactions could be over with relatively quick if the people getting pulled over aren't ****heads themselves

 

[Patsfan1645]

Sorry not playing the game of hypotheticals in which you tell me what I would do and as I mentioned I don't have any interest in pursing a long back and forth on something we will not likely fully agree upon. Like I said I respect your opinion but I don't agree with everything you said and since your implying as to what your profession may or may not be you understand that I'm not required to do so.

Moving on from this (you will have my brief in the morning ) I hate that Barmore acted the way he did, he is young and maybe that was his first run in with PD. I am glad there were body cameras to show how the stop went, always was a fan of the cameras. It supports good cops and keeps cops who may not be up to par straight or they get fired/arrested or both. Hopefully if he has another run in it will go better than this did. We need him and there is still a chance he gets back this year.

 

[203Pat]

This would have been a nothing story if he didn't tweet about it at 1 AM.

 

[PWRxWLF]

This would have been a nothing story if he didn't tweet about it at 1 AM.

Just another rich, immature clown.

 

[Froob]

Here is the entire video. While there are ******* racists cops, a lot of these interactions could be over with relatively quick if the people getting pulled over aren't ****heads themselves

True, BUT police are the professionals. Citizens shouldn't be punished by getting harassed or assaulted just for being rude. I don't get to punch rude customers at work and get to say this could have been avoided.

 

[Patsfan1645]

True, BUT police are the professionals. Citizens shouldn't be punished by getting harassed or assaulted just for being rude. I don't get to punch rude customers at work and get to say this could have been avoided.

True, BUT police are the professionals. Citizens shouldn't be punished by getting harassed or assaulted just for being rude. I don't get to punch rude customers at work and get to say this could have been avoided.

It works both ways. I tried to be respectful and polite and let the citizen's demeanor dictate my response. Spit in my face (which has been done) and get introduced to the pavement. Body cameras which most agencies use these days are a very useful tool for everyone involved.

 

[condon84]

True, BUT police are the professionals. Citizens shouldn't be punished by getting harassed or assaulted just for being rude. I don't get to punch rude customers at work and get to say this could have been avoided.

I don't agree with excessive force by any means especially if a person is complying. However, this particular incident, as well as the Tyreek incident and other countless incidents that have made their way on social media, could easily have been done with without any issues had the person who got pulled over be respectful and not comabitve. There are certainly other incidents that show cops being complete assholes and violating someone's rights but this isn't one of them.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Sorry not playing the game of hypotheticals in which you tell me what I would do and as I mentioned I don't have any interest in pursing a long back and forth on something we will not likely fully agree upon. Like I said I respect your opinion but I don't agree with everything you said and since your implying as to what your profession may or may not be you understand that I'm not required to do so.

Sounds good.

Moving on from this (you will have my brief in the morning ) I hate that Barmore acted the way he did, he is young and maybe that was his first run in with PD. I am glad there were body cameras to show how the stop went, always was a fan of the cameras. It supports good cops and keeps cops who may not be up to par straight or they get fired/arrested or both. Hopefully if he has another run in it will go better than this did. We need him and there is still a chance he gets back this year.

Yes, Barmore acted like an idiot. Obey lawful orders. Be polite and don't run your mouth. Don't consent to searches. Let your lawyer do the talking later, if required. If he had done all of that, it would have been a big nothing. To the press: "Yeah, I messed up with the registration. I made I mistake. I need to get that tint fixed too." That's all. The officers bent over backwards for him and consistently tried to deescalate. It reflects well on the Providence force and its leadership.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Maybe I missed it by why do you need 8 eight officers for a traffic stop?

8 officers are there if I had 8 officers there I would be upset too

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

It works both ways. I tried to be respectful and polite and let the citizen's demeanor dictate my response. Spit in my face (which has been done) and get introduced to the pavement. Body cameras which most agencies use these days are a very useful tool for everyone involved.

That's assault on a police officer. Take them down! People are dumb.

 

[h0c2000]