Atlanta's Defense

[Bobsyouruncle]

One of the things I pointed out to the Falcon fan saying that they are great as long as you don't count garbage time (which they consider all 4th quarters for some reason) was that giving up lots of points in the 4th isn't just a sign of prevent defense, it's also a sign of a bad defense.

They lost or nearly lost several games this year giving up late points.

 

[SVN]

He completed the first 2 passes on that drive.
Edelman's catch wasn't a great throw, but last night when asked what he was thinking during that play he said 'that I should have run my route better' .
The throw to Bennett was against a beaten defender with his back to the QB who had to interfere to prevent a TD.

I dont think he did. He converted on 3rd and 10 for the 1st down.

 

[SVN]

strange game really...5 sacks, they had pressure more often than not..and it's not like the Pats receivers were running free, usually pretty good coverage. Brady was just too good..that's what it came down to.

Pats issue was they couldnt get blount going. If he had not fumbled and pats had even scored a FG in the 2nd quarter, ATL wouldve changed their defense and the game wouldve become much easier. Patriots just could not run the ball early. A little surprised pats didnt go uptempo to start .I guess they didnt want ATL to have many possesions.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I was very surprised.

 

[pherein]

It was a freaking BLOODBATH. But our defense kept doing its thing, and hence their defense got tired and we were able to wreck them in the second half. Our offense found its rhythm stopped dropping passes, Brady became Brady, and by the time OT came around I had no doubts any more.

The real loser was Shanahan. They ran the ball four freaking times in the second half, and they were running plays with 10-15 seconds left on the play clock! You are up 25 points, you should be leaving NO TIME on the clock on any plays. Brady would have been milking the hell out of the clock. My god Shanahan just destroyed Andy Reid in terms of clock management incompetence. I'm sure the defense was like WTF stop throwing the damn ball we need a damn break! People say BB is arrogant. I'm thinking we saw arrogance from the Falcons because they thought we had no way to come back, and they wanted to humiliate us.

Could'nt agree more. Brees always played them by taking what they gave him. 3-5 yrd pass plays. Audible runs the middle if he saw a blitz around the end. Its one reason we became one of the best screening teams, because of Atlanta. You fake a few drop backs knowing Atlanta is rotating for bull rushes. Have the OL fall back pretending to block and then at the last second dump off to PT as the OL breaks and runs forward to block. A few of them and the Falcons DL is tired. But on years like last season our defense was never good enouph to get their offense off the field.
This is also one reason SP cut Jimmy Graham. He cant block a screen or protect on pass plays.
Looked like Brady and McD picked that up on this, maybe around the end of the 2nd quarter when they started short slant passes up the middle, but one got picked off. Though on the next drive the kept throwing behind the lines and short slants for the FG.
The Falcons defense is just not as well conditioned or tough as NE. And truthfuly Im not sure any defense can keep up the constant bull rushing and high octain attack scheme they try to do. Seems a simplitic plan of attack to us , and not smart against a player like Brady and his weapons that can take what you give them and tire them out.
But they do have about 6-8 good pass rushers though, and its a whirlwind not alot of QB's can keep their heads and intelligently seek quick strikes and manipulate.
Id say its more of a brutal, pass rushing, high energy defense made to intimidate and get quick 3 0r 7 and outs.
Brady just used their strengths against them and wore them down. When you do that, their simple scheme and zone play makes them a little below average D I think.
Storm passes and the roads open up.

Pointing out that Shanahan was the real loser, I kind of agree with also. His clock management, passing when he should be running, and offensive plan of attack was exactly like the 1st half. No adjustment at all?
You would think he was still playing the 1st quarter. And when MR could not wing it to JJ, hopper and the patriots defense just kept coming methodically. Shanahan should have adjusted to short pass and run plays with the lead at 28pts.
I really believe Shanahan intended to humiliate BB and the Patriots. Its the only thing that explains him not letting off the pedal. That was a huge mistake.

 

[Shockt327]

I'll leave this here.



I'll disagree that allowing a TD drive is good defense if you keep the offense guessing.
That was 27 1/2 minutes of brutally bad defense.

I really don't want to butt-heads over a Super Bowl win.

It's just that I can't help but notice that McDaniels was running the same key concepts, multiple plays in a row. One play's variation would work, the next would get completely swallowed up (and vice versa), and it's because NE needed to find out which approach the D would take, in relation to which concept. McDaniels was trying his hardest to force Atlanta to reveal their defense's reaction to each concept; and those plays really didn't look easy. But by the time of those last two drives? I saw those same passing concepts again because, this time, they had a much better idea of what to expect and what to avoid.

 

[neuronet]

I really don't want to butt-heads over a Super Bowl win.

We are so damned lucky to be having this argument. From all accounts, Brady was never in doubt. People like Chris Long, who is not used to the Patriot Way, said he was looking around in the locker room, sort of forlourn, like **** guys. People looked at him calmly. "Oh no. We got this." His mind was blown he was so used to being on the Rams, where they would have been like "Yep, we lost this. Where do you wanna go get drunk tonight?" It was like a light bulb in his head, about how just deep the trust ran in Belichik and the Patriots Way (i.e., trust people to do their job and you can win).

And we are so damned lucky to be fans of this amazing organization, and arguing about whether the Atlanta defense was bad, or whether our offense is just really really good, or a little bit of both, or whether ten angels or a hundred can dance on the head of a pin.

Can you imagine being a Falcons fan right now?

 

[IllegalContact]

Still having trouble seeing how people think this. Were you were thinking this halfway through the third quarter....when we had 3 points on the board, their defense had scored six points, strip-sacked Blount, and had sacked Brady so many times?

Let me put it another way. From reading your post I see: their defense sucks, they did exactly what their coach asked them to do, perfectly, but their offense could not pile up the points to implement their usual gameplan.

So how exactly is their defense the one that sucks? I'm not being a jerk here, but it seems like they pretty much did what they were asked to do, and their offense let them down in the last 3/8 of the game.

The difference is we were one of the few teams with a good enough offense to dig ourselves out of the hole that we got ourselves in, once they implemented their "pile on early" approach.

I don't think their defense sucks. I think our offense and quarterback are just that damned good.

yes I did......go back to the game thread......I told you the whole thing was scripted....I said it both at halftime and when it got to 28-3

and what anyone said during the game doesn't matter.....their defense does suck......a required element for such a collapse

and because every good defense gives up 550 yards and 37 first downs.......they came out and literally fired every bullet they had....probably hoping that the offense would build a big enough lead.....they didn't build a big enough lead

including the superbowl, the Falcons were 1-5 in games where they did not score 30 points....that one win? The Broncos and Paxton Lynches first start ever

therefore, the Falcons defense sucks........if that were the Pats defense you'd be crying a river

 

[Ring 6]

I really don't want to butt-heads over a Super Bowl win.

It's just that I can't help but notice that McDaniels was running the same key concepts, multiple plays in a row. One play's variation would work, the next would get completely swallowed up (and vice versa), and it's because NE needed to find out which approach the D would take, in relation to which concept. McDaniels was trying his hardest to force Atlanta to reveal their defense's reaction to each concept; and those plays really didn't look easy. But by the time of those last two drives? I saw those same passing concepts again because, this time, they had a much better idea of what to expect and what to avoid.

Belichick said they revealed in the first quarter it was a cover1 outside run game.

Not sure what you are looking at but also don't know how that would turn bad defensive play into good.

 

[neuronet]

...if that were the Pats defense you'd be crying a river

I'd be asking why the offense couldn't have run the ball more than 4 times in the second half, actually, and better understood the principles of complementary football. You are being very binary in your thinking. I am not. People who think in absolutes like that are always wrong, literally 100% of the time.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd be asking why the offense couldn't have run the ball more than 4 times in the second half, actually, and better understood the principles of complementary football. You are being very binary in your thinking. I am not. People who think in absolutes like that are always wrong, literally 100% of the time.

But regardless of what the offense was doing the defense played bad football.

 

[neuronet]

But regardless of what the offense was doing the defense played bad football.

But this is partly because of the poor offensive gameplanning. They were gassed.

Put it this way: not every team can do what they did for 2 1/2 quarters. Yes, they got gassed, I realize that, as I said above, if someone said they played poorly I'd agree and disagree (again, not binary). But to unequivocally say they have a bad defense, period? Nope (again, not binary). I cannot agree with that. They were up against the Patriots.

Obviously they lost, and it wasn't b/c of special teams, so they did something wrong. But it wasn't just b/c of defense--it was a team loss: coaching, offense, and defense. That was some complementary football on their part.

 

[Ring 6]

But this is partly because of the poor offensive gameplanning. They were gassed.

Put it this way: not every team can do what they did for 2 1/2 quarters. Yes, they got gassed, I realize that, as I said above, if someone said they played poorly I'd agree and disagree (again, not binary). But to unequivocally say they have a bad defense, period? Nope (again, not binary). I cannot agree with that. They were up against the Patriots.

Obviously they lost, and it wasn't b/c of special teams, so they did something wrong. But it wasn't just b/c of defense--it was a team loss: coaching, offense, and defense. That was some complementary football on their part.

Then we disagree. a 27th ranked defense is bad, and when it allows 34 and 4 TDs and a FG on 5 consecutive drives to blow a lead it played bad.
I do not consider 'the other team was good' as an excuse for being bad on defense.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'd be asking why the offense couldn't have run the ball more than 4 times in the second half, actually, and better understood the principles of complementary football. You are being very binary in your thinking. I am not. People who think in absolutes like that are always wrong, literally 100% of the time.

I know that the Falcons defense sucks........you are apparently unaware

 

[Shockt327]

Or of brutally amazing lights out kick ass offense that had made all the necessary adjustments to a defense that had been kicking our ass for half a game, and finally was running out of steam?

You guys crack me up.

All hyperbole aside, this is the side of the debate that I agreement with.

Atlanta was doing a damn good job of playing man coverage and always keeping someone in the underneath zone to occupying the middle; either it was a LB in zone or a safety in robber coverage. Either way, they weren't giving you that area. So, the natural way is to just throw outside, right? Eh. Not so easy. Atlanta did a great job of bumping the RBs and covering them into the flat. They also knew when to mix in a little Cover 4 if they suspected the play-calling was focusing on the out routes. It was hard to get something going.

But McDaniels and Brady eventually figured out what Atlanta was trying to do, and they knew how to adjust. That was the game changer on Offense.

 

[Ring 6]

All hyperbole aside, this is the side of the debate that I agreement with.

Atlanta was doing a damn good job of playing man coverage and always keeping someone in the underneath zone to occupying the middle; either it was a LB in zone or a safety in robber coverage. Either way, they weren't giving you that area. So, the natural way is to just throw outside, right? Eh. Not so easy. Atlanta did a great job of bumping the RBs and covering them into the flat. They also knew when to mix in a little Cover 4 if they suspected the play-calling was focusing on the out routes. It was hard to get something going.

We completed 43 passes and had 37 first downs. What game were you watching?

 

[neuronet]

Then we disagree. a 27th ranked defense is bad, and when it allows 34 and 4 TDs and a FG on 5 consecutive drives to blow a lead it played bad.
I do not consider 'the other team was good' as an excuse for being bad on defense.

Put it this way, if I'm a Falcons fan, I don't come away from that thinking "Man our defense sucks." It is this: how bad our time management was, and how good the Patriots defense played in the second half to shut down our offense. And how amazing is Tom Brady that he could take advantage of it (93 snaps?!!). Yes, the defense was disappointing, but they are not my main worry, they are third of fourth on my list. So to focus on that, as if it is vindication of your pre-game thread, sorry man. I know you want to lay claim to bein' Nostradamus and all, but I'm not buyin' it. I love your posts and I know you know more football than me by a mile, but I'm gonna have to disagree here. The defense was playing well and then broke down

 

[IllegalContact]

Put it this way, if I'm a Falcons fan, I don't come away from that thinking "Man our defense sucks." It is this: how bad our time management was, and how good the Patriots defense played in the second half to shut down our offense. And how amazing is Tom Brady that he could take advantage of it. Yes, the defense was disappointing, but they are not my main worry, they are third of fourth on my list. So to focus on that, as if it is vindication of your pre-game thread, sorry man. I know you want to lay claim to bein' Nostradamus and all, but I'm not buyin' it. I love your posts and I know you know more football than me by a mile, but I'm gonna have to disagree here.

Wrong.....their defense sucks

get with the program

 

[Kontradiction]

Falcons defense sucks.......their hope was to punch as hard as they can for as long as they can while their offense piled up the points......the offense did not pile up the points (21 for the game) and after 50-55 plays, their defense was useless

this game was the epitome of death by a million paper cuts

37 first downs
29 of them were gained on 1st or 2nd down

in the end, the falcons were the ones who were too slow

Patriots also ran 93 plays. Their previous high this season, IIRC, was 77. If they were gassed at 50-55 plays, they were near dead by the time the game was over.

 

[Ring 6]

Put it this way, if I'm a Falcons fan, I don't come away from that thinking "Man our defense sucks." It is this: how bad our time management was, and how good the Patriots defense played in the second half to shut down our offense. And how amazing is Tom Brady that he could take advantage of it. Yes, the defense was disappointing, but they are not my main worry, they are third of fourth on my list. So to focus on that, as if it is vindication of your pre-game thread, sorry man. I know you want to lay claim to bein' Nostradamus and all, but I'm not buyin' it. I love your posts and I know you know more football than me by a mile, but I'm gonna have to disagree here.

I don't understand what you are saying.
I am judging what the defense did. Whether the offense or special teams was good or bad isn't really relevant to what the defense did, unless it put them in an extraordinary hole, or it carried them.
You can share blame all you want, I'm not discussing blame, I'm saying their defense is bad, and played bad.
If the offense scored 50 and they won 50-49 that wouldn't mean the defense was good. Conversely if they scored nothing and lost 50-0 that wouldn't mean the defense was bad just because the offense was equally bad.

I'm not 'focusing on it' for any reason other than it happens to be the topic. You are deflecting it to a different topic.