Anyone else interested in Deshone Kizer?

[maust]

In consideration of my long held belief that Kraft & the Pats have always started by working off the theorem of 'Think of whatever Haslam & the Brownies would do and then do the opposite' the idea of Kizer getting released and being available represents something of a conundrum...

 

[resdubwhite]

For What?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ryan Leaf's unavailable, then?

 

[Bradyking12]

I'd be more comfortable with Ryan Mallett as our starter

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

"Coach Belichick, I have a Tim Tebow on line 1."

 

[jah]

I'd rather Alex Guerrero end up QB2 than Kizer.

I just wanted to say that, I actually know **** all about Kizer so whatever if he ends up here.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Out here in NE Ohio, I got to see a lot of Kizer. He showed flashes of brilliance but always seemed to make the big mistakes that killed productive drives. The question is, does that reflect his true ability or is he capable of being coached up to a decent NFL starter? I really don't know the answer. He is mobile and does have a strong arm, so those are at least positive traits.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

If our coaches spot something while viewing film that indicates that he *could be* useful

 

[Simpelton]

If our coaches spot something while viewing film that indicates that he *could be* useful

I think there's little doubt that Kizer could be useful. He showed some very nice flashes in the 0-16 season, and frequently put the team in position to win only to be let down by the D or the special teams, and at least a handful of his picks are squarely the fault of that weak offensive line

Kizer is not the reason that that team was terrible, and I personally think he's worth working with to see what he could do in a better offensive scheme. If the Browns disagree, the kid might be available for pennies, and if that's the case, I think it would be smart to check it out and see what might be there.

It's the old adage, things are never as bad as they seem when they're at their worst, or as good as their best. Kizer is not exactly what he appears to be at the moment. If the Browns draft a QB high, Kizer represents a buy low opportunity with more than a little talent.

Arm is not bad, he can use his feet, release is actually above average, accuracy isn't bad, it all just comes down to what you think of the head component. And I don't think a rookie campaign with the Browns is going to show that in its best light.

 

[Simpelton]

Aaaaand in other news, I finally found the "edit thread" button and fixed my misspelling in the title.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think there's little doubt that Kizer could be useful. He showed some very nice flashes in the 0-16 season, and frequently put the team in position to win only to be let down by the D or the special teams, and at least a handful of his picks are squarely the fault of that weak offensive line

Kizer is not the reason that that team was terrible, and I personally think he's worth working with to see what he could do in a better offensive scheme. If the Browns disagree, the kid might be available for pennies, and if that's the case, I think it would be smart to check it out and see what might be there.

It's the old adage, things are never as bad as they seem when they're at their worst, or as good as their best. Kizer is not exactly what he appears to be at the moment. If the Browns draft a QB high, Kizer represents a buy low opportunity with more than a little talent.

Arm is not bad, he can use his feet, release is actually above average, accuracy isn't bad, it all just comes down to what you think of the head component. And I don't think a rookie campaign with the Browns is going to show that in its best light.

Kizer, and a lack of quality QB play overall, were the direct reasons that team was as bad as it was.

 

[GoBlue]

He never was a good QB, even on a poor ND team he lost his job. But he is a great athlete and a really good guy..

 

[Kontradiction]

Amazing how a commentary on poor QB play being a direct reason for a winless season gets a “disagree”. No follow up, of course.

 

[Froob]

Amazing how a commentary on poor QB play being a direct reason for a winless season gets a “disagree”. No follow up, of course.

Hue was not to blame, that’s for sure. Nobody could have done better. Bill certainly isn’t getting that team any wins.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hue was not to blame, that’s for sure. Nobody could have done better. Bill certainly isn’t getting that team any wins.

I don’t think Jackson is much of a head coach, but I don’t think he’s that bad either. He was largely betrayed by his front office saddling him with Kizer instead of Watson. They also could have had Wentz in 2016 if they had stayed put.

 

[Froob]

I don’t think Jackson is much of a head coach, but I don’t think he’s that bad either. He was largely betrayed by his front office saddling him with Kizer instead of Watson. They also could have had Wentz in 2016 if they had stayed put.

His arrogance is pretty funny. Whatever QB Cleveland passes on in this draft, we know will be a stud. I love when their front office misses on a guy like Jimmy and realizes he’s great and then starts a rumor that they offered a bunch for him.

 

[Simpelton]

Amazing how a commentary on poor QB play being a direct reason for a winless season gets a “disagree”. No follow up, of course.

What should I have followed up with? Your post basically disagreed with mine while not actually responding to anything I'd been saying all thread. I figured, and I don't think I'm wrong, that a "disagree" was all that kind of comment rated unless you were willing to go to the trouble of making an argument.

 

[Kontradiction]

What should I have followed up with? Your post basically disagreed with mine while not actually responding to anything I'd been saying all thread. I figured, and I don't think I'm wrong, that a "disagree" was all that kind of comment rated unless you were willing to go to the trouble of making an argument.

I don’t think that anything else needed to be responded to. It’s pretty well known that the quarterback position is usually one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, reason for an winless season. I mean, that’s just basic football. If the guy that touches the football on essentially every single offensive down (with the exception of gadget plays and formations) is a liability, as Kizer was, you’re not winning many games.

 

[Simpelton]

Hue was not to blame, that’s for sure. Nobody could have done better. Bill certainly isn’t getting that team any wins.

I really disagree with this. That Browns team showed flashes of real talent. The problem is twofold.

First of all, a lack of organizational direction in drafting and development. A team with no identity at the top tends to have no identity on the field. This is down to both ownership and management and the big culprit is "Chainsaw Jimmy" Haslam who won't let the team go through the ordinary process of learning how to win via the school of hard knocks, and keeps burning things to the ground instead of letting his team build up the institutional memory it needs to climb out of the basement.

Secondly, quite frankly, the team has very little fighting spirit on the field. Chainsaw Jimmy gets some blame here too, but the coaching staff earns some stick as well, to be quite honest teams have had DB owners before and not gone 0-16. A team with no identity in the front office can develop one based on what the coach puts together. This was clearly not done in Cleveland. Result is a team that goes from year to year with no idea what it even is or how it intends to try and win, much less any kind of plan to get there from here.

A Browns team that was clear as to what it was trying to be, knew where it was going and could construct a plan for how they thought they could get there, would be several steps ahead of where it is right now.

 

[Simpelton]

I don’t think that anything else needed to be responded to. It’s pretty well known that the quarterback position is usually one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, reason for an winless season. I mean, that’s just basic football. If the guy that touches the football on essentially every single offensive down (with the exception of gadget plays and formations) is a liability, as Kizer was, you’re not winning many games.

As a general rule, yes, I agree. The problem is that the Browns' management of their roster is exceptionally bad.

We agree that Kizer has failed as a Brown. I think we disagree very much about why.

Deshone Kizer was drafted towards the bottom end of the second round. He was never considered a premium talent, and I don't think there's any doubt at all that he was rushed into the starter's job through a sheer lack of options. The fact of the matter is that in just about any other organization Deshone Kizer would never have played a snap this year. The Browns are the only organization desperate enough to take a guy who isn't a standout talent and throw him into the fire like this.

I don't think you can judge a guy solely based on results when 31 other organizations wouldn't have even trotted him out there yet. This is the same reason that a lot of people are still reserving judgment to an extent on Jacoby Brissett, who's in a similar position. The difference being, Brissett at least had some experience from the prior season, Kizer was entirely raw.

I don't think there's any real doubt that Kizer failed. The problem with stopping the analysis there is that it blithely ignores the many ways in which he was set up to fail. And I think that's important to take on board when trying to evaluate what Kizer might do in future years, which is the main consideration when deciding whether to acquire someone. A Deshone Kizer who had learned no lessons and had no further development from exactly the point he is now, would be a disaster no matter where he goes, but I like his raw talent, and I honestly do think that he's worth developing if a team is prepared to be patient with him.

The Patriots are in a unique position to offer a raw player who got off to a terrible start, an opportunity to learn the game in the best environment possible. If we decide we have other priorities for our draft picks, and considering the state of our defense and the fact that we're potentially losing up to 2 running backs this offseason, as well as the poverty of our draft last year and some serious unanswered questions left behind as a consequence of that, I consider it quite likely, picking up a talented option off the reject pile may be the best available move to put a live arm on the roster for Brady to mentor.

Of those options, Kizer is the one that looks the most interesting to me, exactly because he is so raw. He's the guy most likely to be available outside the draft, who is also talented enough to give the coaching staff something to work with.