And Important Key To Patriot Winning Is Talent At WR ????

[203Pat]

We have the dumbest most reactionary fanbase. One half of good football against an average team means we are fine at receiver. Juju had a good game (for once), Parker didn't even play, Tyquan had 17 yards, and Raegor went a whopping 0 for 0. These are OPs reasons why we're apparently fine at receiver.

 

[p8ryts]

Speaking of Douglas, did we ever find out if that guy who clotheslined hi

We have the dumbest most reactionary fanbase. One half of good football against an average team means we are fine at receiver. Juju had a good game (for once), Parker didn't even play, Tyquan had 17 yards, and Raegor went a whopping 0 for 0. These are OPs reasons why we're apparently fine at receiver.

I didn't think anyone said they were fine with it. Just happy for production and some good plays. No one expects anything from Raegor. But Juju, Douglas, Henry and Zeke were productive. Brown and Gesicki were open but didn't get targets. I don't expect Bourne or Gesicki back. I hope we resign Zeke. I thought he was a showboat in DAL, but he is a football player. I like him.

 

[203Pat]

I didn't think anyone said they were fine with it. Just happy for production and some good plays. No one expects anything from Raegor. But Juju, Douglas, Henry and Zeke were productive. Brown and Gesicki were open but didn't get targets. I don't expect Bourne or Gesicki back. I hope we resign Zeke. I thought he was a showboat in DAL, but he is a football player. I like him.

OP phrased this dopey thread in a way that seems to intimate that he thinks we don't need better receivers because of Thursday night. Henry, Zeke, and Juju were the main reasons the offense moved the ball and only one of them is a receiver.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I am calling you out on this. You either made this up or have no idea what you are talking about. One thing that consistently stands out on film with JJSS is his willingness and effort as a blocker. That has been consistent all year. There is absolutely no evidence on film that JJSS lacked effort. So either find examples or I will conclude that you just made it all up because you blame him for 10 not being able to get him the ball.

and I'm ignoring you - this has been your schtick for years - come up with an opinion, then try and cherry pick and beat the horse dead to prove your opinion valid, even in the face of overwhelming wrongness......you're like the Fonz, can't admit when you're wrong

it's not the case here......this effort from JuJu, be it health related or just a straight effort/desire situation, was significantly better than he's shown all year......the only one really saying this was the same level of performance he's shown all year and it's all because it was zappe and not mac is you....all year long the consistency of his effort has been questioned by patriots analysts, NFL analysts, and fans alike......the tape on his taking routes off, running soft/half assed routes have come up time and time again.....he's had one good game all season, and it doesn't erase that......maybe he's finally getting healthy, great, let's see it again......but it is pretty coincidental that his one decent effort comes against his old team.....i'd love for that to be the guy we see the rest of the way out, but it took 14 weeks for him to show up

call out all you want.......after so many years of the same behavior from you in this forum, it's meaningless

 

[Ring 6]

and I'm ignoring you - this has been your schtick for years - come up with an opinion, then try and cherry pick and beat the horse dead to prove your opinion valid, even in the face of overwhelming wrongness......you're like the Fonz, can't admit when you're wrong

it's not the case here......this effort from JuJu, be it health related or just a straight effort/desire situation, was significantly better than he's shown all year......the only one really saying this was the same level of performance he's shown all year and it's all because it was zappe and not mac is you....all year long the consistency of his effort has been questioned by patriots analysts, NFL analysts, and fans alike......the tape on his taking routes off, running soft/half assed routes have come up time and time again.....he's had one good game all season, and it doesn't erase that......maybe he's finally getting healthy, great, let's see it again......but it is pretty coincidental that his one decent effort comes against his old team.....i'd love for that to be the guy we see the rest of the way out, but it took 14 weeks for him to show up

call out all you want.......after so many years of the same behavior from you in this forum, it's meaningless

I gave you the opportunity to offer any evidence other that because you said so to back up your opinion. You doubled down with a “ because I’ve said so for years”

But now you expand it to “his effort has been questioned by analysts all year” and offer zero evidence of even that subjective claim.

If it were true, you would be able to cite many examples but you cannot.

I’ve watched the film. For one thing he has been the most consistent willing and aggressive blocker of the WRs. That’s not really disputable. So your argument now boils down to be he is a WR who is high effort when blocking big dogs it on pass plays lololololol

What changed is a qb who executes the offense and improved health. Questioning his effort is BS that you pulled out of your ass to cover your ingrained and wrong presumptions.

But by any means, like always, if you are right, you can prove it. Show me plays where he dogged it. A few per fame would be sufficient to change my opinion, if they were to exist.

 

[mgteich]

Receiver is probably the most important position after QB in today's NFL

I strongly disagree. Many agree with you.

For me, OT and EDGE rusher are more important than WR.

 

[mgteich]

it was also a totally different league. with all the rule changes an elite WR is almost as important as QB these days.

theres a reason eagles, dolphins, Bills etc. all went out and acquired elite WR's for their quarterbacks. and in all cases it elevated the play of their QB's and made them into contenders.

but as soon as we win one game against Trubisky steelers and have one good half, now we dont need receivers! lets roll it back with Juju/parker next year! its not good enough. not sure why fans stick their heads in the sand to try and believe it. Its almost like because Bill whiffs/ignores receivers, to defend Bill they take this position that we don't need talent!

When you have a top QB, I agree that it is true that a top receiver may be the difference between playoff contender and SB contender.
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I would note that many top receivers fail with their new teams, or they show that they weren't worth the resources spent. Surely, the Raiders top contenders now that they have a top receiver; surely they are much better than before. Or not.
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The issue is resources. IMO, a team cannot long do well for very long paying $25M AAV to a WR and/or $40M AAV to a QB. When that kind of commitment is made, unless very lucky, what happens is that there is that there is a window set within which the team will be a top contender. of course, much of the money is moved into future year cap hits. But time catches up.
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For example, I believe that KC and BUF are nearing the end of their window. I suppose that it might be an interesting to look at the teams paying the top money for a QB and WR and see who is nearing the end of their window. Some teams like the Chargers are already toast.
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[lancerman]

I strongly disagree. Many agree with you.

For me, OT and EDGE rusher are more important than WR.

As a single position... one receiver is more important than any single OL player. OL as a full unit is bigger. But one OL is not fixing an entire unit. Joe Thomas was fantastic for years, but he wasn't able to bring the Browns up to contention because the rest of the line had holes. One top level WR will outright change the calculus on how a secondary has to scheme and opens everyone else up.

If you have the chance between Harrison Jr or the best offensive tackle, the best OT isn't going to help the other issues on the line. Harrison will take priority from the defensive backs and demand special scheming that opens up other parts of the game.

 

[lancerman]

We have the dumbest most reactionary fanbase. One half of good football against an average team means we are fine at receiver. Juju had a good game (for once), Parker didn't even play, Tyquan had 17 yards, and Raegor went a whopping 0 for 0. These are OPs reasons why we're apparently fine at receiver.

It's not really that the fanbase is dumb. They are just kinda cowardly and act like they are early 2000's Bill Belichick trying to squeeze value out. It's why we can say "x, y and z are a problem all year" then in the draft or free agency this fanbase gets petrified at spending anything of value to fix those problems. Then you get chumps who will watch another team make the move and say "nah, they can have them, way too high of a spend". Then when it turns out that it didn't actually screw that team over long term, people forget all about it and just jump through hoops to justify doing nothing. Then we get some mediocre bum on a value contract and celebrate.... then when he is mediocre and makes that contract look bad anyways we cry all year again.

I said in another post, but it's kind of a running joke amongst NFL fans nowadays that the Patriots fanbase cries about how badly they need talent every year, but then when the time comes start freaking out about paying what you need to get talent.

This whole WR issue is because we probably will be in position to either get a QB or WR with the highest pick this team has had in decades and they are getting gun shy as **** and want to be passive and trade down for "value". Even though we've shown no reason to believe we will hit enough lower in the draft to justify passing up on high floor guys at positions of need. And all these people will also lose their mind at what it takes to trade to get one of these guys. And people keep saying "get a vet like Cousins".... watch what happens when you see what Cousins goes for. All of a sudden it will be too much.

Brady's isn't here anymore to attract people for low market value contracts in order to win. If you want to be cheap, you'll just stay a loser.

 

[203Pat]

It's not really that the fanbase is dumb. They are just kinda cowardly and act like they are early 2000's Bill Belichick trying to squeeze value out. It's why we can say "x, y and z are a problem all year" then in the draft or free agency this fanbase gets petrified at spending anything of value to fix those problems. Then you get chumps who will watch another team make the move and say "nah, they can have them, way too high of a spend". Then when it turns out that it didn't actually screw that team over long term, people forget all about it and just jump through hoops to justify doing nothing. Then we get some mediocre bum on a value contract and celebrate.... then when he is mediocre and makes that contract look bad anyways we cry all year again.

I said in another post, but it's kind of a running joke amongst NFL fans nowadays that the Patriots fanbase cries about how badly they need talent every year, but then when the time comes start freaking out about paying what you need to get talent.

This whole WR issue is because we probably will be in position to either get a QB or WR with the highest pick this team has had in decades and they are getting gun shy as **** and want to be passive and trade down for "value". Even though we've shown no reason to believe we will hit enough lower in the draft to justify passing up on high floor guys at positions of need. And all these people will also lose their mind at what it takes to trade to get one of these guys. And people keep saying "get a vet like Cousins".... watch what happens when you see what Cousins goes for. All of a sudden it will be too much.

Brady's isn't here anymore to attract people for low market value contracts in order to win. If you want to be cheap, you'll just stay a loser.

Yep. This romanticized look at what the team was and how it was built always seems to overlook the most important factor. We don't have the greatest quarterback of all time anymore. People think that because we signed guys like Chris Hogan and Brandon Lafell and we won super bowls with them that was what worked.

 

[lancerman]

Yep. This romanticized look at what the team was and how it was built always seems to overlook the most important factor. We don't have the greatest quarterback of all time anymore. People think that because we signed guys like Chris Hogan and Brandon Lafell and we won super bowls with them that was what worked.

It also doesn't help that people will talk about guys like Hogan and Lafell.... then completely ignore how Brady usually performed when his number 1 pass catchers on the season were either

a) Deion Branch
b) Wes Welker (multi time All Pro)
c) Randy Moss (HOF'er and one of the best receivers ever)
d) Rob Gronkowski (HOF'er to be and the top TE ever)
e) Julian Edelman
f) Mike Evans (all pro who was conistently one of the top receivers in the league)

When Branch and Edelman who are both Super Bowl MVP's are your worst number 1's.... when you were successful, you have no real business comparing most of that run to the last 5 years

 

[JohnJH]

I am not sold on Jeudy, I cannot wrap my head around why everyone is in love with him, beyond the contract. Still, I question your ability to get 300 YPG. Send me film and we can analyze.

Higgins and Pittman Jr. would be better in my humble opinion (although getting both would perhaps not be realistic with other needs as well).

 

[VrabelJr]

Yep. This romanticized look at what the team was and how it was built always seems to overlook the most important factor. We don't have the greatest quarterback of all time anymore. People think that because we signed guys like Chris Hogan and Brandon Lafell and we won super bowls with them that was what worked.

What's the objective if it isn't to win Super Bowls? Obviously Brady elevated the guys around him, but this is like when the Patriots ushered in the era of running back by committee and people on here were whining that we never have a 1500 yard rusher despite going to the AFC CG nearly every year.

 

[VrabelJr]

People saying WR is more important than OT is a new low in being an idiot. Football games are won and lost in the trenches. Always have been always will be. Every team that is a contender right now (SF, Dallas, Philly, KC) has a legit OL and DL.

 

[203Pat]

What's the objective if it isn't to win Super Bowls? Obviously Brady elevated the guys around him, but this is like when the Patriots ushered in the era of running back by committee and people on here were whining that we never have a 1500 yard rusher despite going to the AFC CG nearly every year.

Obviously that's the objective but we weren't winning super bowls because we signed guys like Lafell and Hogan. We won because of Brady. Now without an all world QB we need to invest in receiver and stop bargain shopping.

 

[lancerman]

What's the objective if it isn't to win Super Bowls? Obviously Brady elevated the guys around him, but this is like when the Patriots ushered in the era of running back by committee and people on here were whining that we never have a 1500 yard rusher despite going to the AFC CG nearly every year.

You are missing the forest for the trees. We won Super Bowls when we had much better pass catchers and that was still with the GOAT elevating some of the midtier guys to be better than they were.

Name a time the Patriots won Super Bowls with WR's this bad? The closest is 2001 and that was a completely different NFL and I'd take Troy Brown that year over all of what we have.

And again, for years we had players coming here who wanted to win a ring with Brady and took below market value deals and incentive laden deals. That will not happen anymore.

 

[Triumph]

People saying WR is more important than OT is a new low in being an idiot. Football games are won and lost in the trenches. Always have been always will be. Every team that is a contender right now (SF, Dallas, Philly, KC) has a legit OL and DL.

The Eagles defense is ranked 28th.

 

[RIpats88]

Yep. This romanticized look at what the team was and how it was built always seems to overlook the most important factor. We don't have the greatest quarterback of all time anymore. People think that because we signed guys like Chris Hogan and Brandon Lafell and we won super bowls with them that was what worked.

People also forget Hogan/lafell only were successful here because we had Gronkowski/Edelman as our #1s.

Right now they are trying to tell us having Hogan/lafell as our #1 is just fine!! And pretending that they were.

There isn't a receiver on our roster who even comes close to Gronk/Edelman talent level. And I'm not sure why fans want to act all of a sudden like they don't understand how an elite talent on offense has any effect on how it operates. how coverages work...

I'm supposed to believe Juju has the same value as Jamaar chase or Tyreek Hill.

Maybe a defense mechanism because Bill doesn't value the position/has whiffed on it? So it doesn't matter! He's smarter than the league!

 

[RIpats88]

People saying WR is more important than OT is a new low in being an idiot. Football games are won and lost in the trenches. Always have been always will be. Every team that is a contender right now (SF, Dallas, Philly, KC) has a legit OL and DL.

All those teams also have legit elite receiving mismatches in Deebo, lamb, AJ brown and Kelce. Chicken or the egg?

49ers looked trash when Deebo was out.