An interesting list of what can we get from QB desperate Teams for our pick #3

[Ivan]

If the Pats take a QB at #3 just because they feel they need to take a QB at #3 and not because they love the player, they are no better than the Jets or Jags. That’s what bad teams who draft bad players do. That is my point.

One more time. I already said if they love the QB available at #3, draft him. You have doubts about the guy, don’t draft him just because he is the best available QB at the #3 spot.

Guys like Sanchez, Gabbard, and Bortles had question marks that had many teams saying that they shouldn’t be drafted as high as they did. But the Jets and Jags drafted them because they needed a QB. I am using them as examples of teams that used faulty logic that many Pats fans are calling for the Pats to use.

One more time I will say it. If they like the QB at 3 they will take him. If they don’t they won’t. What the Jets did in 1984 won’t be a part of the discussion any more than how The Soprano’s ended will be:

 

[Real fan 02]

I’m down with the Denver trade, best CB duo with Surtain and Gonzalez.

I've been on the surtain idea for last 2 seasons.. imagine he and gonzo together.. WOW.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm scared of drafting a qb bust and I love accumulating draft capital, but I think I'm going Maye or Daniels with the pick.

I really wish we could also get one of the top tackles in the draft, but its hard to see how that can happen if we go QB at 3.

It's basically a must we take the QB, sign a Vet. We probably have the worst QB room right now in the league. I'm thinking Daniels personally.

 

[Rob0729]

One more time I will say it. If they like the QB at 3 they will take him. If they don’t they won’t. What the Jets did in 1984 won’t be a part of the discussion any more than how The Soprano’s ended will be:

So giving examples of teams who use the wrong draft strategy of drafting a QB in the top 5 picks as a warning to the Patriots on what they should do with the 3rd pick and drafting a QB is as relevant as a TV show that is almost two decades old? What any team has done in the past drafting a QB in the same situation is relevant to the discussion to what the Pats do now. History always repeats itself. So looking what other teams have done in the past in similar situations is always relevant to a discussion of what the Pats should do.

BTW, are we sure the Pats would pass on the QB who fell to three if they aren't in love with him? Do we know enough about Wolf and the rest of the scouting staff know for sure that they won't make the same mistakes that the Jets and Jags did in the past? How do we know that they won't take Daniels or Maye even though they have significant red flags on whichever one falls, but they believe this might be the best shot to get an elite franchise QB? You are making an assumption.

This is a team that just spent the last two years doing everything we used to mock other teams when they ruin a young QB. How do we know the Pats haven't just become that bad team that other teams mock? I am hopeful they aren't, but we have no idea.

 

[Ivan]

It's basically a must we take the QB, sign a Vet. We probably have the worst QB room right now in the league. I'm thinking Daniels personally.

I certainly can’t think of a worse QB room; and the report that Zappe was watching film in the receivers room is even more concerning. Not about Jones, but about Zappe. If that’s true and he didn’t have the balls to tell Jones to go watch tape in the long snappers room then they should get rid of him as well as Jones. Sweet BabyJesus Brady told Bledsoe he was going to take his job, and then went out and did it. Zappe should have told Jones” Thanks for giving away the QB job,” and then told him to suck it when he pouted about it.

 

[1960Pats]

So when and where are you going to find that QB if the future.? You won’t get them in free agency, and you are obviously opposed to taking one with a high pick. Which means your strategy is to take lower rated QB prospects and just hope one of them turns into a star. Once again, that isn’t a strategy to become good, it’s wishful thinking. If they want to become great again they are going to have to get a great QB, and you don’t get that by taking worse QB prospects. It’s like betting on the slower horse in a horse race because the faster horses are more likely to break a leg. The faster horse might break a leg, but they are also far more likely to actually win races.

The HOF is loaded with QBs who were taken after other QBs, even some #1 picks. It's a crap shoot.

 

[Ivan]

So giving examples of teams who use the wrong draft strategy of drafting a QB in the top 5 picks as a warning to the Patriots on what they should do with the 3rd pick and drafting a QB is as relevant as a TV show that is almost two decades old. What any team has done in the past drafting a QB in the same situation is relevant to the discussion to what the Pats do now. History always repeats itself. So looking what other teams have done in the past in similar situations is always relevant to a discussion of what the Pats should do.

BTW, are we sure the Pats would pass on the QB who fell to three if they aren't in love with him? Do we know enough about Wolf and the rest of the scouting staff know for sure that they won't make the same mistakes that the Jets and Jags did in the past? How do we know that they won't take Daniels or Maye even though they have red flags on whichever one falls, but they believe this might be the best shot to get an elite franchise QB? You are making an assumption.

No Rob, it isn’t. What’s relevant to the discussion are the things that Daniels does and doesn’t have that either make him a good pick for their future QB or not. Everything else is irrelevant. And what we do and don’t know about what the Patriots will or won’t do is also irrelevant. This is a new regime, and they will be judged on their decisions and actions, not their thoughts and feelings. If you want to worry about those things then by all means go ahead and do so, but I’m more interested in the actual decisions they make in free agency and the draft than what may or may not be in their heads.


As of right now I am happy with the Patriots letting Bill go, as I think it was the right time to make the change for the future. I’m also happy with the decision to give Mayo the shot at being the head coach, as well as most of his hiring decisions. But then again I’m almost always optimistic about these kinds of things, and I even managed to find ways to put a happy spin on the “ Who the **** is Cole Strange?” first round pick. I didn’t go 300 deep in that draft so I really didn’t know. So while I’m happy with all of this right now only time will tell if I was right to be happy or not, and that will all come down to their decisions and actions, and ultimately winning or losing. I don’t really care about their record next season, what I care about right now is them using this offseason to build the foundation for future success, and would rather see them use free agency to build solid depth and get some reliable starters for the future instead of making a big splash and signing big names who won’t produce much until they have a real QB, and I want that choice to be one who will become their starter for the next 10 years. I would rather see them use up a good deal of their $$$ to re-sign the defensive players they want to be the core of their defense going forward. Then I want them to come out of the draft with that QB, and a really good tackle and WR, and all of that is achievable. Then they can use cap cuts and summer releases to finish building next season’s team. It’s 2025 and 26’ where I want to see their real growth as a team. Make a WC spot in 25’, and become a contender in 26’ and beyond. And those are the things I will use as my benchmarks for evaluating the jobs they are all doing. If they meet these goals and benchmarks I will keep them and enjoy their success. If they don’t I will fire the lot of them and start over. That’s my commitment to you as a fan, it’s the least I can do.

 

[Rob0729]

No Rob, it isn’t. What’s relevant to the discussion are the things that Daniels does and doesn’t have that either make him a good pick for their future QB or not. Everything else is irrelevant. And what we do and don’t know about what the Patriots will or won’t do is also irrelevant. This is a new regime, and they will be judged on their decisions and actions, not their thoughts and feelings. If you want to worry about those things then by all means go ahead and do so, but I’m more interested in the actual decisions they make in free agency and the draft than what may or may not be in their heads.


As of right now I am happy with the Patriots letting Bill go, as I think it was the right time to make the change for the future. I’m also happy with the decision to give Mayo the shot at being the head coach, as well as most of his hiring decisions. But then again I’m almost always optimistic about these kinds of things, and I even managed to find ways to put a happy spin on the “ Who the **** is Cole Strange?” first round pick. I didn’t go 300 deep in that draft so I really didn’t know. So while I’m happy with all of this right now only time will tell if I was right to be happy or not, and that will all come down to their decisions and actions, and ultimately winning or losing. I don’t really care about their record next season, what I care about right now is them using this offseason to build the foundation for future success, and would rather see them use free agency to build solid depth and get some reliable starters for the future instead of making a big splash and signing big names who won’t produce much until they have a real QB, and I want that choice to be one who will become their starter for the next 10 years. I would rather see them use up a good deal of their $$$ to re-sign the defensive players they want to be the core of their defense going forward. Then I want them to come out of the draft with that QB, and a really good tackle and WR, and all of that is achievable. Then they can use cap cuts and summer releases to finish building next season’s team. It’s 2025 and 26’ where I want to see their real growth as a team. Make a WC spot in 25’, and become a contender in 26’ and beyond. And those are the things I will use as my benchmarks for evaluating the jobs they are all doing. If they meet these goals and benchmarks I will keep them and enjoy their success. If they don’t I will fire the lot of them and start over. That’s my commitment to you as a fan, it’s the least I can do.

Although I agree that it was time to move on from Belichick, what the Pats did under Belichick is less relevant to this discussion as me pointing to what other teams have done in the same position as the Pats are this year.

This thread is basically a discussion of whether the Pats should stick at #3 or take the bonanza that they would get in a trade and what that bonanza would be. Sorry if you disagree, but looking at what other teams have done in similar situations is relevant to the discussion. It doesn't mean the Pats will do the same thing. But it should be examined as a cautionary tale.

 

[1960Pats]

I honestly don’t have time to list all of the later first round and day 2 QB’s that busted, but I gusrantee the list is far longer than the list of top 10 QB’s who didn’t make it. And just because some teams made bad choices that doesn’t mean you don’t take your shot. A draft “ strategy” of taking lesser prospects is a guarantee of failure.

Luckily, I already did that. I decided to see the breakdown of the HOF QBs and where they were drafted.

Of the 50 or so that I recorded 8 were the top pick. Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway, PEDton and Eli, Goff, Namath and Plunkett. The last 4 of those are the only HOF QBs among the 32 top picks. And there are plenty of busts in the group.

Luckman and Baugh were also the first QBs taken at 2 and 6 and 8 more of the QBs had one non-HOF QB taken ahead of them.

Of the 16 other QBs in the HOF, 53 QBs were taken ahead of them and two of those were Brady and Starr, who combined were picked behind 14 other non HOF QBs.

So by the looks of it, having the top pick hasn't been a guarantee of anything.

 

[Ivan]

Although I agree that it was time to move on from Belichick, what the Pats did under Belichick is less relevant to this discussion as me pointing to what other teams have done in the same position as the Pats are this year.

This thread is basically a discussion of whether the Pats should stick at #3 or take the bonanza that they would get in a trade and what that bonanza would be. Sorry if you disagree, but looking at what other teams have done in similar situations is relevant to the discussion. It doesn't mean the Pats will do the same thing. But it should be examined as a cautionary tale.

Although I agree that it was time to move on from Belichick, what the Pats did under Belichick is less relevant to this discussion as me pointing to what other teams have done in the same position as the Pats are this year.

This thread is basically a discussion of whether the Pats should stick at #3 or take the bonanza that they would get in a trade and what that bonanza would be. Sorry if you disagree, but looking at what other teams have done in similar situations is relevant to the discussion. It doesn't mean the Pats will do the same thing. But it should be examined as a cautionary tale.

At no point in that post was I discussing what the Patriots did under Belichick, other than a one liner about me making excuses to put a happy face for picking Cole Strange. So you either didn’t read I posted, or grossly misread it. But feel free to quote where I discussed what they did under Belichick, I would be interested in seeing it?

 

[Ivan]

Although I agree that it was time to move on from Belichick, what the Pats did under Belichick is less relevant to this discussion as me pointing to what other teams have done in the same position as the Pats are this year.

This thread is basically a discussion of whether the Pats should stick at #3 or take the bonanza that they would get in a trade and what that bonanza would be. Sorry if you disagree, but looking at what other teams have done in similar situations is relevant to the discussion. It doesn't mean the Pats will do the same thing. But it should be examined as a cautionary tale.

No Rob, the Patriots shouldn’t waste one minute talking about how other teams ****ed up their draft picks, they should focus solely upon the qualities and characteristics of the players they are looking at. What other teams did has no bearing on the prospects they are looking at.

 

[Ivan]

Although I agree that it was time to move on from Belichick, what the Pats did under Belichick is less relevant to this discussion as me pointing to what other teams have done in the same position as the Pats are this year.

This thread is basically a discussion of whether the Pats should stick at #3 or take the bonanza that they would get in a trade and what that bonanza would be. Sorry if you disagree, but looking at what other teams have done in similar situations is relevant to the discussion. It doesn't mean the Pats will do the same thing. But it should be examined as a cautionary tale.

By “ bonanza” you must be thinking of the 3 first rounders plus the 49er’s gave for the 3rd pick overall. And imo no team is going to give them that.

 

[Rob0729]

No Rob, the Patriots shouldn’t waste one minute talking about how other teams ****ed up their draft picks, they should focus solely upon the qualities and characteristics of the players they are looking at. What other teams did has no bearing on the prospects they are looking at.

Who said the Patriots should or shouldn't do anything? My post wasn't for Elliot Wolf. My posts were for people on this board discussing whether or not they should trade down and what the compensation is. If Wolf or anyone else from the front office is consulting Patsfans.com for drafting advice, they should be fired on the spot.

This is a message board. It is about discussing opinions, theories, and ideas. I don't see what the issue is by bringing up what other teams have done in the past and how they blew the draft by drafting a QB just to draft a QB is some kind of offensive thing.

 

[Rob0729]

By “ bonanza” you must be thinking of the 3 first rounders plus the 49er’s gave for the 3rd pick overall. And imo no team is going to give them that.

I have no idea what another team will give up. Whatever it is, it will be a lot because teams are desperate to get a franchise QB. Will it be three firsts? Who knows? Maybe the Vikings would trade Justin Jefferson and their first for the 3rd pick. I would consider that a bonanza.

It will all depend on who is willing to trade up, how many teams are willing, and what they have to trade. But the Pats will likely get at least two firsts and more draft compensation (or a combination of picks and a player of similar value). Minnesota is a team typically mentioned as a trade partner for the third pick. They are drafting 11 where the 49ers were drafting 12th when they traded to three. So the Vikings would have to give up less, but similar in value as what the 49ers gave up to trade to three.

 

[Rob0729]

At no point in that post was I discussing what the Patriots did under Belichick, other than a one liner about me making excuses to put a happy face for picking Cole Strange. So you either didn’t read I posted, or grossly misread it. But feel free to quote where I discussed what they did under Belichick, I would be interested in seeing it?

I didn't say you discussed him extensively, but you brought up his drafting. I was just being a bit of an ass to throw it back to you.

 

[1960Pats]

Here are the QBs taken with pick #1 that aren't in the HOF yet. There are some real klunkers there and some good choices. I didn't include Eli or Brady because I think they'll be in the HOF eventually.

	First Overall Pick QBs
2023	Bryce	Young
2021	Tevor	Lawrence
2020	Joe	Burrow
2019	Kyler	Murray
2018	Baker	Mayfield
2016	Jared	Goff
2015	Jameis	Winston
2012	Andrew	Luck
2011	Cant	Newton
2010	Sam	Bradford
2009	Matthew	Stafford
2007	JeMarcus	Russell
2005	Alex	Smith
2003	Carson	Palmer
2002	David	Carr
2001	Michael	Vick
99	Tim	Couch
93	Drew	Bledsoe
90	Jeff	George
87	Vinny	Testaverde
75	Steve	Bartkowski
64	Jack	Concannon
63	Terry	Baker
62	Roman	Gabriel
59	Randy	Duncan
58	King	Hill
55	George	Shaw
54	Bobby	Garrett
52	Billy	Wade

 

[Nehalem]

Minn at pick #11. Pick #11+(My favorite trade). WR Jefferson and their 2025 first rounder.

If Minnesota makes this trade they should fire their GM

 

[chasa]

Just remember the less they drop, the less they get back. They wouldn't get much more than #35 trading with ARI at #4.

i said what i said

 

[Rob0729]

If Minnesota makes this trade they should fire their GM

I could see Jefferson and the 11th pick this year. That is a fair trade. Especially since there are questions whether the Vikings are willing to pay Jefferson what he wants in a new deal.

I don't see it happening, but I would say it is a fair deal.

 

[Real fan 02]

I certainly can’t think of a worse QB room; and the report that Zappe was watching film in the receivers room is even more concerning. Not about Jones, but about Zappe. If that’s true and he didn’t have the balls to tell Jones to go watch tape in the long snappers room then they should get rid of him as well as Jones. Sweet BabyJesus Brady told Bledsoe he was going to take his job, and then went out and did it. Zappe should have told Jones” Thanks for giving away the QB job,” and then told him to suck it when he pouted about it.

These 2 guys are entitled millennial.. Brady is from the last real era of guys that came from the bottom and fought to the top.. zap was apparently telling people on the team he will end up being the starter when he got cut! LOL. Unbelievable. Zappe is what he is.. a practice squad player who can play ok in spurts not a starter in the league. Mac he just needs a change of scenery.. he isn't the mental assassin that an aphla at QB needs to be in the league.