All Pro Voting: Dan Connolly 1 vote, Logan Mankins 0 Votes

[RobertWeathers]

I agree that it isn't clear cut, and it's why I think the cheap shot at Mankins isn't warranted. It's not like this OL is playing better, it isn't.

It wasn't too long ago that I read a post where some of these same people were whining about the Mankins' posts, even though they pretty much died down after only a week or so after the trade. I guess they think it's okay to stir that up again now.

I think it's too early to be celebrating the loss of Logan Mankins.

While I can't prove it, I really think the loss of Mankins and Scar retiring really hurt Solder. It seemed to me once Connolly slid over to LG, he played better (allowed less pressures per game, etc.).

 

[VrabelJr]

All you need to do to make people on this board become completely irrational is start a conversation about our OL.

 

[patfanken]

There would have been an uproar if I (or anyone else) dared to criticize the Pats trade of Mankins during this season. I guess it's okay to now take cheap shots at the guy though. Who knew?

If the Pats OL was playing well it would be one thing, but they aren't. The OL is the weakness of this team. Anyone who denies that and thinks that unloading Mankins made this team better is kidding himself.

Calm down guy. You seem to be the guy taking shots here. What about poor Tim Wright. He had to come here late and play a very limited role mostly as a zone clearer and last option. Yet somehow he managed to contribute 6 TDs to the offensive effort. BTW the same number of TD that was contributed by the likes JJones, AJ Green, S.Watkins, M Floydd, TKelce, and SSmithSr....AND more than ABoldin, JEdelman, MColston, Decker, and JWitten among many other notable names

So no, Tim Wright is definitely NOT an all pro. But in very limited snaps, he DID make a solid contribution to the offense in his own way.

1960, You go back a long way (as do I). When you consider the cap room the Mankins trade freed up, amd more importantly what that money was used to do, plus add the contributions Wright made and the potential of the 2nd pick in the 4th round. And then weight it against, not the player Mankins WAS, but the player he'd become; this COULD go down as one of the top 10 best trades in Patriots histiory

Think about it. Even if you are right and the Pats would have been better at RG with Mankins. How much better? The stats show that the Pats are a SIGNIFICANTLY better pass protecting OL this year than they were last with Mankins. And that's considering Solder had a better year last year. The Stats also show that Mankins isn't doing any better in Tampa than he was here. I know it doesn't mean much but IIRC PFF ranked him #30 among starting G's

No one wants to stamp on the memory of Logan Mankins in his prime, nor dump on his vast array of accomplishments. He was a great player, but one who at the end, had a contract that was much larger than his CURRENT contribution, and chose to follow the money.

Some might argue that in the end the Pats could afford to keep Mankins or Revis. I think that's too extreme. But I am fairly sure, that if we'd kept Mankins, there definitely would NOT have been Branch, Ayers, and Cassillas. And I would argue that THOSE 3 players have improved the Pats a lot more than the potential marginal if any improvement Mankins would have.

 

[Rob0729]

Funny? You have an odd sense of humor. I hope you're still laughing after the SB is played

If this team loses the Super Bowl, it won't because they were missing an average LG in Mankins. Seriously, the same people who acted like trading away Mankins would tank the Pats season are almost hoping the Pats don't win the Super Bowl so they can say they told us so.

If the Pats don't win the Super Bowl, it will be a reason far greater than that they traded away Mankins. They didn't need him in the regular season (the best they could do with Mankins was get HFA which they already got) and I doubt his loss will be the difference in the playoffs.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Since some of you feel that now is a good time to dump on Mankins again, let me ask you a question. Is this OL better or worse now? Anyone who doesn't see that our weakness is indeed the OL (and specifically LG) isn't paying attention.

Btw, how many votes for all pro did Tim Wright get? Is he still playing? Do I have the right first name for him?

If the Pats lose because of that giant hole we have at LG, we'll see who's laughing then.

Oline has been better since mankins left. You can't forget the jets and buff game because there were starters missin. Since Connolly got hurt, the oline declined at the end, and we rested 2 all pros last game. The trade was brilliant and mankins is not the player he used to be, and would have made the oline worse imo. LG ain't a large hole haha

 

[Froob]

As is Adam beating out ggost

Adam went 30/31. As good as any this year.

 

[Rob0729]

There would have been an uproar if I (or anyone else) dared to criticize the Pats trade of Mankins during this season. I guess it's okay to now take cheap shots at the guy though. Who knew?

If the Pats OL was playing well it would be one thing, but they aren't. The OL is the weakness of this team. Anyone who denies that and thinks that unloading Mankins made this team better is kidding himself.

How is it a cheap shot? I just thought it was funny that Connolly got an All Pro vote and Mankins didn't. I don't think either deserved one.

That said, I think Connolly when healthy this year was an upgrade over Mankins last year. His problem was staying healthy. Hopefully after a month of rest away from playing, he will be 100% during the playoffs.

And the o-line issues go beyond the guard spot which has been a strength of the o-line when Connolly and Wendell were 100%. Unless the Pats were planning to move Mankins to LT or RT, he wouldn't be such an upgrade.

 

[Rob0729]

Calm down guy. You seem to be the guy taking shots here. What about poor Tim Wright. He had to come here late and play a very limited role mostly as a zone clearer and last option. Yet somehow he managed to contribute 6 TDs to the offensive effort. BTW the same number of TD that was contributed by the likes JJones, AJ Green, S.Watkins, M Floydd, TKelce, and SSmithSr....AND more than ABoldin, JEdelman, MColston, Decker, and JWitten among many other notable names

So no, Tim Wright is definitely NOT an all pro. But in very limited snaps, he DID make a solid contribution to the offense in his own way.

1960, You go back a long way (as do I). When you consider the cap room the Mankins trade freed up, amd more importantly what that money was used to do, plus add the contributions Wright made and the potential of the 2nd pick in the 4th round. And then weight it against, not the player Mankins WAS, but the player he'd become; this COULD go down as one of the top 10 best trades in Patriots histiory

Think about it. Even if you are right and the Pats would have been better at RG with Mankins. How much better? The stats show that the Pats are a SIGNIFICANTLY better pass protecting OL this year than they were last with Mankins. And that's considering Solder had a better year last year. The Stats also show that Mankins isn't doing any better in Tampa than he was here. I know it doesn't mean much but IIRC PFF ranked him #30 among starting G's

No one wants to stamp on the memory of Logan Mankins in his prime, nor dump on his vast array of accomplishments. He was a great player, but one who at the end, had a contract that was much larger than his CURRENT contribution, and chose to follow the money.

Some might argue that in the end the Pats could afford to keep Mankins or Revis. I think that's too extreme. But I am fairly sure, that if we'd kept Mankins, there definitely would NOT have been Branch, Ayers, and Cassillas. And I would argue that THOSE 3 players have improved the Pats a lot more than the potential marginal if any improvement Mankins would have.

Yeah, that is what people forget. Wright scored a lot of TDs this year. No guarantees that if he wasn't here, someone else would have gotten them.

And I also agree that people are thinking of Mankins as he was in his prime and not what he is now. In his prime, he was the best guard in the league. Now he is average. Sure, having him here would have made the depth at guard better, the it wouldn't have made the o-line any better at full strength. And the line should be at 100% a week from today.

 

[zipster9]

Connolly is a UFA in 2015. He will be 33yrs old.

Do you try to resign him? Or just go to the Draft route and pick 2 or 3 OG/OT ?

 

[Rob0729]

Connolly is a UFA in 2015. He will be 33yrs old.

Do you try to resign him? Or just go to the Draft route and pick 2 or 3 OG/OT ?

I am guessing they would consider having him back at the veteran minimum. Odds are they upgrade the position either through free agency or the draft or both.

I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Mankins back at a value deal (the Bucs are likely going to cut him since he has $6.75 million base salary in 2015). I think it would be up to Mankins though if he doesn't let his pride determine whether he comes back.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I am guessing they would consider having him back at the veteran minimum. Odds are they upgrade the position either through free agency or the draft or both.

I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Mankins back at a value deal (the Bucs are likely going to cut him since he has $6.75 million base salary in 2015). I think it would be up to Mankins though if he doesn't let his pride determine whether he comes back.

I think you answered your own question. I don't see that happening.

 

[Galeb]

Adam went 30/31. As good as any this year.

Vinatieri's leg limits the distance at which his coaches will even attempt field goals, and his team requires a kickoff specialist. He also plays half his games in a dome. Vinatieri is obviously the most clutch kicker of all time, but Ghost has been better the last few years.

 

[rochrist]

Adam went 30/31. As good as any this year.

Adam kicks indoors. Ghost kicks outdoors, sometimes in rotten weather, and he went 35-37, including 13-14 from +40 yards.

 

[shmessy]

Btw, how many votes for all pro did Tim Wright get? Is he still playing? Do I have the right first name for him?

Yes, Tim Wright is still playing. In fact, over the past 4 games, he has seen his snap count double, according to Mike Reiss. ://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4775449/patriots-offensive-snaps-2014-season

"....Wright averaged 14.8 snaps per game through the first 10 contests, and over the last six contests that number has spiked to 33.8...."

Logan Mankins won't be playing this weekend.

Oh, and BTW, Miguel has already directly attributed the Mankins cap savings to the signing of Ayers, Casillas and Branch.

Anymore questions?

 

[captain stone]

With Solder/Conolly/Stork/Wendell/Vollmer in 2014...

LT- Worse
LG- Better vs pass. According to FO, metrics are similar.
C- Better Stork > Wendell
RG- Not much worse. 2013 Connolly @ RG is better than Wendell @ RG
RT- Better...Vollmer has been outstanding this year.

Not that clear cut,IMO.

LT - same player, worse results (perhaps partly due to losses of Scar & Mankin$)

LG - worse

Center - better

RG - worse

RT - same player, better results (healthier)

 

[captain stone]

I am guessing they would consider having him back at the veteran minimum. Odds are they upgrade the position either through free agency or the draft or both.

I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Mankins back at a value deal (the Bucs are likely going to cut him since he has $6.75 million base salary in 2015). I think it would be up to Mankins though if he doesn't let his pride determine whether he comes back.

I agree that the FO should consider signing him to a one-year, non-guaranteed, vet-minimum contract
(IOW, what they should've offered that surly, ungrateful pile of garbage Cannon).

OTOH, I would indeed be shocked if Mankin$ returns. In fact, I would be shocked if the cowboy ever
sets foot anywhere in New England again.

 

[Froob]

Adam kicks indoors. Ghost kicks outdoors, sometimes in rotten weather, and he went 35-37, including 13-14 from +40 yards.

Yeah but it certainly isn't "insane" to pick Adam. Adam has been money all year and is the most clutch kicker in the league. I'd rather have Gost but I understand the pick.

 

[Fencer]

Best written ballet? I'd have to go with the Rite of Spring by Stravinsky.

Don't know what this has to do with voting for offensive linemen, though.

Well, you just named a ballet that many people think was very bizarrely written.

 

[Fencer]

People are not giving this guy enough credit. Maybe, just maybe... the credit is deserved.

A couple of weeks ago, I watched, "The Great Wall" from the NFL Network series, "A Football Life". Basically it was a story about 5-7 players who as a unit formed one of the greatest offensive lines in NFL history. Some players like Erik Williams, Larry Allen, Nate Newton we're gifted athletes. Other players such as Mark Stepnoski, Kevin Gogan, John Gesek, Mark Tueni were low round pick castoffs that as a unit functioned at an extremely high level. Why? Physical skill for sure, but they functioned well as a unit.

Let's look at his body of work over the last 4 years.

2010- Plays LG while Mankins sits and moves to RG. Does very well.
2011- Koppen goes down and Connolly slides in at C. Does very well.
2012 & 2013- Plays RG and does very well.
2014- When healthy at LG, for 9 games starting with Cinci and ending with MIA, they team went 9-1, scored 36 a game and allowed 7 sacks.

There are also a number of stats that suggest that over the last four years, Connolly is pretty good on the run & pass protection.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2011

In the end, I think Connolly is one of those guys that makes units better with his communication, intelligence and knowledge of the system and his opponents. That, in itself is a very, very valuable commodity league-wide

My overall point is that Connolly has been part of pretty successful lines and when he plays, Brady stays on his feet,the team puts up points and they win. This year has been no exception.

Don't forget his kick return skills.

Seriously, Captain Connolly has been a pretty effective player in the NFL.

And by the way, that kick return may be my favorite football play ever, for the very personal reason that it cheered me up after one of the most depressing weeks of my entire life.

 

[RayClay]

Well, you just named a ballet that many people think was very bizarrely written.

No accounting for taste.