Aaron Hernandez VS Jimmy Graham

[patsfan-1982]

Jimmy Graham is 5th in the NFL in yards he is a better TE then Hernandez but i think Gronk is the best TE in the NFL, but just the fact that we are comparing Brady's #3 opt to the 5th leading receiver in the NFL says alot about what kind of talent Brady has to throw to

 

[JackBauer]

...................

 

[ausbacker]

While I share your opinion, opinions can't really be wrong. It is just what he thinks. If he thinks 10-15 TE's are better than AH, who cares, I'm fairly certain that isn't the case, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a small handful better, but that is my opinion, and nothing more.

Deus is well known for his posting methodology. I don't mind him as he's generally a level headed poster occupying the place between homer and chicken little. What I do have an issue with is the constant demonstration of opinion superiority when presented with facts that contradict his position.

Hernandez has a case for being considered a top 5 TE in 2011. I'm yet to see an argument presented that validates a ranking closer to 10 or 15.

The point of the thread is simple. Jimmy Graham, right now, is better than Aaron Hernandez. That's not debatable nor should it be.

 

[strngplyr]

Deus is well known for his posting methodology. I don't mind him as he's generally a level headed poster occupying the place between homer and chicken little. What I do have an issue with is his the constant demonstration of opinion superiority when presented with facts that contradict his position.

Hernandez has a case for being considered a top 5 TE in 2011. I'm yet to see an argument presented that validates a ranking closer to 10 or 15.

I know all about DI, and I'm surprised you're bothering to argue. He's like AJ in that he will never change his opinion based on what another poster says. You can disagree with him all you want, but you won't get anywhere arguing with him about where AH ranks.

You think he's top 5, as do I.
DI think's he's back end of the top 10-15 or something like that. We both disagree.

We aren't going to change our opinion based on what he says, he isn't going to change his opinion based on what we say.

The only thing that puzzles me is that DI stated you can look at numbers to see AH clearly isn't a top 5 TE, while averaging out where he ranks in major categories would put him exactly at 5.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Please, anyone who is saying that Graham is a better TE than Gronk, you don't understand football.

Neither Graham or Hernandez are really tight ends.

Hernandez reminds me of Dallas Clark, although he is much better after the catch. He also makes a lot of drops and fumbles.

Graham is further from a tight end than Hernandez. He's just a receiver who is too tall to be called a receiver.

I know that Hernandez will be a successful NFL te/receiver for the long haul because plenty of good ones over the years were this hybrid type who didn't really block much but had amazing physical skills. In terms of Graham, well, I don't know. He is a basketball player who looks awkward on the field because he is so tall. He didn't look very fast in the games I saw him, and I wonder if teams will ultimately start keeping 6'6" linebackers in the event they need to face a giant like that. So, I voted for AH because I'm sold on him, and Graham I think may ultimately become more of a gimmick.

 

[strngplyr]

...................

The definition of opinion is:

A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

It is not stating something as a fact, it is how you view something. You can disagree with someones view, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus is well known for his posting methodology. I don't mind him as he's generally a level headed poster occupying the place between homer and chicken little. What I do have an issue with is his the constant demonstration of opinion superiority when presented with facts that contradict his position.

Just to respond to this specific part of your post....

I stated nothing about my opinion being superior to yours. I simply answered that I knew the numbers and then broke down, in a semi-specific way, where I'd slot Hernandez on the TE rankings list. On the other hand, you made a false claim regarding my being misinformed, and generally pulled an AJ.

 

[ausbacker]

I know all about DI, and I'm surprised you're bothering to argue. He's like AJ in that he will never change his opinion based on what another poster says. You can disagree with him all you want, but you won't get anywhere arguing with him about where AH ranks.

You think he's top 5, as do I.
DI think's he's back end of the top 10-15 or something like that. We both disagree.

We aren't going to change our opinion based on what he says, he isn't going to change his opinion based on what we say.

The only thing that puzzles me is that DI stated you can look at numbers to see AH clearly isn't a top 5 TE, while averaging out where he ranks in major categories would put him exactly at 5.

I regularly butt heads with AndyJohnson too (and you can you tell the superiority complex with Deus' further response). It's perfectly healthy to debate issues where you don't agree with someone. The exchange of ideas is the cornerstone of message board philosophy.

My contention is the statistics in which you have raised. If you can't reference performance, then what can you reference?

 

[Deus Irae]

The only thing that puzzles me is that DI stated you can look at numbers to see AH clearly isn't a top 5 TE, while averaging out where he ranks in major categories would put him exactly at 5.

I didn't state that.

 

[JackBauer]

The definition of opinion is:



It is not stating something as a fact, it is how you view something. You can disagree with someones view, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I think it's fairly obvious you can hold an opinion that is objectively wrong under any reasonable standard.

That said, it's not a point I really care to argue, which is why I deleted the post.

 

[strngplyr]

I didn't state that.

If that isn't what you were inferring, then can you explain how looking at #s on nfl.com support AH not being a top 5 TE?

1.) I'm not misinformed, unless you're claiming that the numbers, which are easy to get off of NFL.com, are actually incorrect somehow.

Could you make a list of TE's you'd rank in front of AH with numbers to back it up?

 

[IllegalContact]

LOL......

Jimmy Graham......not even close......with his height, he poses bigger matchup problems.

AH is good, but lets be serious here people......stop being homers

 

[condon84]

Aaron is a great compliment to Gronk, but let's be real here. Jimmy Graham is basically a bigger, taller, more physical, slightly slower Vincent Jackson. The guy is an insane match up problem at TE. He's as tall as Gronk and even more athletic than Gronk. I love Gronk and I think he's a more complete TE than Jimmy, but if I have to choose between Aaron and Jimmy, it's not even close.

BTW, he played 3 years of college BB in UM and only decided to play football his senior year. Basically, he's only had 3 years of real coaching and is only scratching the surface of his talent.

 

[BHSL2]

Gronkowski
Graham
Davis

In that order. Everyone after that hasn't been determined. Who should man the 4th spot?

Clearly not Pettigrew or Gresham.

Finley is under utilized and is inconsistent. Miller, Daniels, Olsen and Shockey play at a fairly good level.

Gonzalez and Witten are still excellent players. Gates is excellent when healthy.

Where does Hernandez fall? He has great numbers. Is he as dependable as these other guys after the top 3?

 

[tobias funke]

I'm interested in seeing the list of the 11-14 tight ends considered better than Hernandez.

Really, really interested.

 

[BHSL2]

I'm interested in seeing the list of the 11-14 tight ends considered better than Hernandez.

Really, really interested.

My thoughts exactly.

If he's not top 5, then who's better than him?

 

[IllegalContact]

Graham is in the same league as Gronk and to deny it is to be a ridiculous homer........their situations and the results make it far too difficult to decide which one is better.

 

[IllegalContact]

My thoughts exactly.

If he's not top 5, then who's better than him?

gronk
graham
witten
vernon davis
antonio gates
fred davis

just for starters..........hernandez would not cut it as a primary TE on most teams......he'd be another dustin keller

 

[BHSL2]

Graham is in the same league as Gronk and to deny it is to be a ridiculous homer........their situations and the results make it far too difficult to decide which one is better.

They're clearly in the same league. However,

Gronk: YAC, Great Blocking
Graham: Measurable athleticism

Gronk is an athletic freak who is a nightmare to guard. Graham moves like a wideout and and can even position himself better than Gronk to create separation. But we lacks to ability to block as well as Gronk, and goes down rather easily. His YAC is lower than Gronks. And despite having more targets than Gronk, he has fewer TDs.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Graham is in the same league as Gronk and to deny it is to be a ridiculous homer........their situations and the results make it far too difficult to decide which one is better.

Gronk blocks better than Jimmy Graham.