A strange play no one seems to be talking about...

[XLIX]

On one of the Denver kickoffs (I believe in the 2nd quarter), Dion caught it and just immediately tossed it to the ref without taking a knee.

The referee can actually rule this a fumble because if you don't take a knee, the play is not dead. But the thing is, the referee caught the ball which, IMHO, he should have tried to avoid. Dion figured out his error and grabbed the ball back from the ref and took a knee.

Just a strange play which I thought was kind of funny...... seeing Lewis grab a ball back from a ref he just tossed it to....

 

[chasa]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

 

[Bertil]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

It has to cross the Line of Scrimmage after being punted.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Pats never had possession of ball on blocked punt.

 

[IllegalContact]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

A Patriots player would have to have gained possession first......

 

[Two Eight]

On the kick off play I thought the ref actually tossed it back to Dion, which seemed really odd. Collingsworth started to say something about it but then they went to commercial and never showed a replay.

I've seen that happen before where the ref won't catch it, just let it drop to the ground, and it is a live ball.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

same as 4th down play

 

[chasa]

A Patriots player would have to have gained possession first......

when do players gain possessions on muffed punts? asking for a friend on the denver roster...

 

[Triumph]

Th

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

Punter stands 15 yards behind the line of srimmage. He fell on the ball where he was standing. Impossible to convert 4th down.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

On one of the Denver kickoffs (I believe in the 2nd quarter), Dion caught it and just immediately tossed it to the ref without taking a knee.

The referee can actually rule this a fumble because if you don't take a knee, the play is not dead. But the thing is, the referee caught the ball which, IMHO, he should have tried to avoid. Dion figured out his error and grabbed the ball back from the ref and took a knee.

Just a strange play which I thought was kind of funny...... seeing Lewis grab a ball back from a ref he just tossed it to....

Here's the answer from footballzebras:

Walt Coleman hot potato
Patriots at Broncos (video). A routine kickoff into the end zone is caught by the Patriots returner Dion Lewis, who does not make an attempt to advance, and tosses the ball to referee Walt Coleman. Coleman catches the ball and gives it back to Lewis, likely telling him to take the knee to make the touchback official.

Should Coleman have just let the ball bounce off of him and consider it a live ball? That’s a bit of an overreach, as it was clear that Lewis has “given himself up” — kickoffs are different than scrimmage plays when it comes to determining a player surrendering — but to just tie up the loose end, Coleman wanted the kneeldown to be without doubt.​

Quick calls: Week 10 | Football Zebras

(link also discusses the non-call on the flop by Osweiler)

 

[BigPharma]

If they had shown a replay and BSPN runs it as Tossgate, we'd probably lose a first, second and third.

 

[PatsDeb]

Here's the answer from footballzebras:

Walt Coleman hot potato
Patriots at Broncos (video). A routine kickoff into the end zone is caught by the Patriots returner Dion Lewis, who does not make an attempt to advance, and tosses the ball to referee Walt Coleman. Coleman catches the ball and gives it back to Lewis, likely telling him to take the knee to make the touchback official.

Should Coleman have just let the ball bounce off of him and consider it a live ball? That’s a bit of an overreach, as it was clear that Lewis has “given himself up” — kickoffs are different than scrimmage plays when it comes to determining a player surrendering — but to just tie up the loose end, Coleman wanted the kneeldown to be without doubt.​

Quick calls: Week 10 | Football Zebras

(link also discusses the non-call on the flop by Osweiler)

Yeah, I got the sense that the ref told him he forgot something and tossed it back.

 

[Sciz]

Something similar happened in college a few years ago, and it was a touchdown.

 

[mosi]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

Yes, because it did not cross the line of scrimmage, it is still Denvers ball. Once they recover, since they did not get a first down, they give the ball up on downs.

 

[upstater1]

A punting team player can't pick up the blocked punt and run it for a first down. So it's irrelevant where the Bronco fell on the ball. Even if he had fallen on it beyond the first down marker, it would still be Patriots ball.

I think the people above are misstating the rule.

The receiving team can only muff the punt AFTER it crosses the LOS. So, just because a player got his hands on the kick and deflected it, this doesn't mean the ball can be advanced by the punting team. It cannot.

In fact, that would be a good late game strategy for some desperate teams. Have the punter linedrive the punt at some helpless linemen, recover for a new set of downs!

 

[Tony2046]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

Great question btw. One of those little things I never knew or thought about.

 

[CopenhagenPatsfan]

A punting team player can't pick up the blocked punt and run it for a first down. So it's irrelevant where the Bronco fell on the ball. Even if he had fallen on it beyond the first down marker, it would still be Patriots ball.

I think the people above are misstating the rule.

The receiving team can only muff the punt AFTER it crosses the LOS. So, just because a player got his hands on the kick and deflected it, this doesn't mean the ball can be advanced by the punting team. It cannot.

In fact, that would be a good late game strategy for some desperate teams. Have the punter linedrive the punt at some helpless linemen, recover for a new set of downs!

Not according this, it states a punting team can advance the ball after it is blocked.

NFL Rules Digest: Kicks From Scrimmage

 

[XLIX]

one thing i still don't understand is the blocked punt.

Rex blocked the punt, and then the denver player recovered it. how is it not denver ball? The patriots touched the ball after it had been kicked. at what point does the ball switch possessions during a punt?

The Patriots player never really possessed the ball so officially it is simply a turnover on downs. The Denver player would be allowed to advance the block and potentially gain a first down, but that certainly wasn't the case last night.

If Burkhead (or anyone else for NE) fully possesses the ball and then fumbles, then Denver could recover and have 1st and 10.

 

[XLIX]

Something similar happened in college a few years ago, and it was a touchdown.

This was totally the play I had in mind, but couldn't remember the teams involved. Thanks for the video.

 

[XLIX]

Here's the answer from footballzebras:

Walt Coleman hot potato
Patriots at Broncos (video). A routine kickoff into the end zone is caught by the Patriots returner Dion Lewis, who does not make an attempt to advance, and tosses the ball to referee Walt Coleman. Coleman catches the ball and gives it back to Lewis, likely telling him to take the knee to make the touchback official.

Should Coleman have just let the ball bounce off of him and consider it a live ball? That’s a bit of an overreach, as it was clear that Lewis has “given himself up” — kickoffs are different than scrimmage plays when it comes to determining a player surrendering — but to just tie up the loose end, Coleman wanted the kneeldown to be without doubt.​

I would be very curious as to where, in the rule books, it says anything about kickoffs being different from scrimmage plays when it comes to a player surrendering. You can take a knee at any time at any place in the game, it's just not something often seen on plays from scrimmage.

Was that Chargers defender "giving himself up" when he intercepted the ball and ran sideways with his arms outstretched? Or would it be a fumble if he got levelled by a player he didn't see?​