A question on my mind virtually every day [Would BB draft Maye]

[Huckleberry1]

He started out fine, but man ... he fell off a cliff. That was one of the wildest things I've ever seen. And the fact that Belichick never let Stidham see more time that year still blows my mind. Stidham went from a guy they loved to an outcast. I get there were other circumstances involved there, but I still can't get over how things played out that year.

I agree. I was shocked by how bad he was. I have seen high school Quarterbacks play better than Newton did.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bill said outright during a press conference something to the effect of "It's clear I'm not welcome there at their facility. So they're not welcome at ours." There was definitely some truth to that one, otherwise he wouldn't have made that comment.

O'Brien losing it that time with Mac sort of confirms that. I watched that again recently, and I think Mac mouthed something along the lines of "I've got it," and that only made O'Brien more furious. I was someone who certainly gave him the benefit of the doubt, but he was definitely his own worst enemy.

Disagree Ian. Belichick was at the Brady ceremony a few weeks before that Comment, and Vrabel said he's always welcome there.

 

[Huckleberry1]

There is no evidence Kraft did it with Carroll. Bobby Grier meddled with Carroll, not Kraft.

And Kraft admitted he was wrong with Parcells and claimed he would be hands off.

And Belichick had no problem with Guerrero until he started working with clients other than Brady. That was a fight between Brady and Belichick, not Kraft.

And sometime Kraft meddling saves the team. I don't know if you heard this, but Belichick had the ridiculous idea of making Matt Patricia the OC and Joe Judge the QB coach in Mac Jones' crucial second year, but Kraft said no way. Imagine if Kraft didn't meddle there. Imagine Patricia calling plays for this offense? Oh wait!

Again, Patricia and Judge shows you that Kraft meddling is proof that the allegations are overstated. Kraft hated the idea and didn't stop it.

Right on the money. And Kraft has reiterated that Belichick had full control the entire time, and if he didn't Brady would have ended up retiring in New England.

 

[Rob0729]

You realize a lot of this stuff is just made up and has no truth to it? Like the banning of the Patriots scouts. Uh-- ALL NFL scouts are banned from UNC practices.

Mac was inept. Bill O'Brien is on record as Mac just never listening to coaches. You're blaming Mac's consistent gutless and poor play on Belichick, which is wild.

"Reports on Garoppolo trade." Debunked over and over again. The GM of the 49ers debunked those.

But you guys will twist things until kingdom come.

None of what you wrote is an example of Belichick being petty, and a lot of it is just plain untrue.

No! Belichick admitted to banning Patriots scouts from the facilities. He said since he was banned from Foxboro (not true), he banned the Patriots from the UNC facilities.



And Mac Jones is doing fine in San Fran. Shanahan loves him. He is taking directions just fine there. I mean the anti-Mac narrative worked until he started to play well and winning in San Fran . And I don't remember O'Brien ever saying Mac refused to listen to the coaches.

 

[Ian]

Disagree Ian. Belichick was at the Brady ceremony a few weeks before that Comment, and Vrabel said he's always welcome there.

I'm not disagreeing there. But Belichick was the one who made that statement, so while he might have been wrong about whether or not he was welcome here, it sounds like anyone from New England wasn't allowed there. And scouts are allowed, but their access is limited:

Bill Belichick acknowledges ban on Patriots scouts at UNC facilities: 'They're not welcome at ours'

The first-year Tar Heels coach explains his reasoning for nixing New England personnel from being around his program

www.cbssports.com

 

[upstater1]

Bill said outright during a press conference something to the effect of "It's clear I'm not welcome there at their facility. So they're not welcome at ours." There was definitely some truth to that one, otherwise he wouldn't have made that comment.

O'Brien losing it that time with Mac sort of confirms that. I watched that again recently, and I think Mac mouthed something along the lines of "I've got it," and that only made O'Brien more furious. I was someone who certainly gave him the benefit of the doubt, but he was definitely his own worst enemy.

Good point, but what I said was also true. Yes they're banned, as are all scouts. He has his enemies and Mack Brown loyalists down there, which are feeding the UNC-fan based online news with stories like "All Drake Maye tweets are banned," and the media ran with that one without even a little research (I'm not saying they should have asked Belichick himself, but rather checking the UNC Football twitter feed to see if it was true).

 

[upstater1]

No! Belichick admitted to banning Patriots scouts from the facilities. He said since he was banned from Foxboro (not true), he banned the Patriots from the UNC facilities.



And Mac Jones is doing fine in San Fran. Shanahan loves him. He is taking directions just fine there. I mean the anti-Mac narrative worked until he started to play well and winning in San Fran . And I don't remember O'Brien ever saying Mac refused to listen to the coaches.

Mac doesn't have it. In the same way that countless backups in the NFL have a decent stretch and then they suck. Heck, Mac had a decent stretch in New England at one point. But at the end of the day, he was a coward in the pocket, couldn't hit the boundaries, had a weak arm, and his teammates rallied around his backup -- which said everything. Yes, Mac and O'Brien were at loggerheads because Mac refused to listen.

Yes, on Belichick and banning the Patriots. But all NFL scouts are banned.

 

[XLIX]

No! Belichick admitted to banning Patriots scouts from the facilities. He said since he was banned from Foxboro (not true), he banned the Patriots from the UNC facilities.

This is what I mean……. The guy F’ING ADMITTED IT and we still have apologists saying it’s fake news or he never singled out New England…

(All this ignores the fact that, as you mentioned, he was never banned from the Patriots facilities in Foxboro)

 

[Rob0729]

Disagree Ian. Belichick was at the Brady ceremony a few weeks before that Comment, and Vrabel said he's always welcome there.

You are right. Belichick is welcome at Gillette, but that is the reason he gave for banning Patriots scouts from the UNC facilities.

 

[XLIX]

Good point, but what I said was also true. Yes they're banned, as are all scouts.

Not true. Patriots scouts are banned, other scouts are limited.

Huge difference.

Bill Belichick bans Patriots, limits other NFL scouts from viewing UNC practices

Belichick isn't violating any rules by limiting Pats and NFL scouting access to his practices, but one scouting source called it "petty."

www.nytimes.com

Other teams have been allowed to scout UNC’s practices, the sources said. However, the Tar Heels have increased restrictions on scouts since Belichick arrived this year.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac doesn't have it. In the same way that countless backups in the NFL have a decent stretch and then they suck. Heck, Mac had a decent stretch in New England at one point. But at the end of the day, he was a coward in the pocket, couldn't hit the boundaries, had a weak arm, and his teammates rallied around his backup -- which said everything. Yes, Mac and O'Brien were at loggerheads because Mac refused to listen.

Yes, on Belichick and banning the Patriots. But all NFL scouts are banned.

All scouts are banned from practices, only the Patriots scouting staff are banned from the UNC facilities all together. Belichick is being petty whether you want to admit it or not.

And who cares if Mac is a back up or not. That isn't the discussion. It was how Belichick treated him. He was petty towards him because he went to Saban for advice on how to deal with crap situation he was put in. That is clear. If he is back up, you start him and then him at halftime in like four or five consecutive games. Either you start him and ride with him or sit him. Otherwise, you are just being cruel.

 

[Ian]

Mac doesn't have it. In the same way that countless backups in the NFL have a decent stretch and then they suck. Heck, Mac had a decent stretch in New England at one point. But at the end of the day, he was a coward in the pocket, couldn't hit the boundaries, had a weak arm, and his teammates rallied around his backup -- which said everything. Yes, Mac and O'Brien were at loggerheads because Mac refused to listen.

Yes, on Belichick and banning the Patriots. But all NFL scouts are banned.

According to this, they aren't banned but they do only have a limited amount of sessions of a given practice they can take in:

"Per Kaher, scouts from other teams are limited to watching just three sessions of UNC practice, rather than the full practice period, and are not allowed to speak with coaches or staffers."

Bill Belichick acknowledges ban on Patriots scouts at UNC facilities: 'They're not welcome at ours'

The first-year Tar Heels coach explains his reasoning for nixing New England personnel from being around his program

www.cbssports.com

 

[upstater1]

There is no evidence Kraft did it with Carroll. Bobby Grier meddled with Carroll, not Kraft.

And Kraft admitted he was wrong with Parcells and claimed he would be hands off.

And Belichick had no problem with Guerrero until he started working with clients other than Brady. That was a fight between Brady and Belichick, not Kraft.

And sometime Kraft meddling saves the team. I don't know if you heard this, but Belichick had the ridiculous idea of making Matt Patricia the OC and Joe Judge the QB coach in Mac Jones' crucial second year, but Kraft said no way. Imagine if Kraft didn't meddle there. Imagine Patricia calling plays for this offense? Oh wait!

Again, Patricia and Judge shows you that Kraft meddling is proof that the allegations are overstated. Kraft hated the idea and didn't stop it.

?? Kraft is the one who put Guerrero back in the locker room over Belichick's objections. Amendola perceived this as undercutting the coaches.

You don't remember the Carroll era when Kraft would publically throw him under the bus in the media?

It didn't matter whether Belichick was overruled when he wanted to bring Patricia back or not (uh, Patricia and Judge did not return... O'Brien did, despite what Belichick wanted) because the Krafts had made up their mind on Mayo being coach and the whole season was rife with internal dissension.

BTW, Patricia was the questionable hire, not necessarily Judge, because no matter how bad a coach Judge was, he had an offensive background. He was WRs coach. Josh McDaniels was bringing Judge with him to Indy as an offensive coach. AND right now, he's the QB coach for Lane Kiffin. So, as bad a coach as he may be, it was not a wild choice to have him involved with QBs.

 

[upstater1]

All scouts are banned from practices, only the Patriots scouting staff are banned from the UNC facilities all together. Belichick is being petty whether you want to admit it or not.

And who cares if Mac is a back up or not. That isn't the discussion. It was how Belichick treated him. He was petty towards him because he went to Saban for advice on how to deal with crap situation he was put in. That is clear. If he is back up, you start him and then him at halftime in like four or five consecutive games. Either you start him and ride with him or sit him. Otherwise, you are just being cruel.

Cruel? To a QB? That's their job. What is cruel about it? They didn't have a QB. You act like this is the first time a coach played musical chairs with his QBs (because they were all bad). How come other coaches who play musical chairs aren't accused of being petty? Was Ray Berry petty? The reason Belichick didn't trust Mac was because of his own horrific play. It's not a matter of him being back up material, but rather it's not listening to coaches, doing the same stupid stuff over and over again, and most of all, losing the respect of his teammates because of how scared he was in the pocket.

 

[Rob0729]

Cruel? To a QB? That's their job. What is cruel about it? They didn't have a QB. You act like this is the first time a coach played musical chairs with his QBs (because they were all bad). How come other coaches who play musical chairs aren't accused of being petty? Was Ray Berry petty? The reason Belichick didn't trust Mac was because of his own horrific play. It's not a matter of him being back up material, but rather it's not listening to coaches, doing the same stupid stuff over and over again, and most of all, losing the respect of his teammates because of how scared he was in the pocket.

I have never seen any coach do what Belichick did to Mac Jones. Ray Berry never in four subsequent games started a QB and benched him at halftime and then start him again the next game. That would screw with any QB.

It was also a fireable offense. If Aaron Glenn constantly benched Justin Fields at halftime and starting him the next week, we would all be laughing our arses off at the Jets.

Mac should have been permanently benched after the first or second time he was benched. Not the fourth or fifth.

 

[Rob0729]

?? Kraft is the one who put Guerrero back in the locker room over Belichick's objections. Amendola perceived this as undercutting the coaches.

You don't remember the Carroll era when Kraft would publically throw him under the bus in the media?

It didn't matter whether Belichick was overruled when he wanted to bring Patricia back or not (uh, Patricia and Judge did not return... O'Brien did, despite what Belichick wanted) because the Krafts had made up their mind on Mayo being coach and the whole season was rife with internal dissension.

BTW, Patricia was the questionable hire, not necessarily Judge, because no matter how bad a coach Judge was, he had an offensive background. He was WRs coach. Josh McDaniels was bringing Judge with him to Indy as an offensive coach. AND right now, he's the QB coach for Lane Kiffin. So, as bad a coach as he may be, it was not a wild choice to have him involved with QBs.

The Pats were playoff teams two of the three years that Carroll coached. I don't remember Kraft saying anything about him negatively, but if he did it was probably at the end when he lost the team.

And I don't see anything wrong with the Kraft making Mayo the heir apparent to Belichick. It is their team. Well, other than he was the wrong guy, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. It isn't that rare either. Belichick was 72 at the time. The Krafts were expecting the transition to happen several years down the line and not the next year. Belichick has no right to select his successor.
The Jets made Belichick the heir apparent when Parcells was still head coach. He didn't have a problem then taking the bonus they gave him stick around and be ready to take over when Parcells gave up coaching.

Joe Judge had no experience coaching QBs. He spent one year as the special teams AND WR coach. He split duties. Not sure how much he spent with the receivers.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I can never remember, did Drake go to Rutgers? Does he play Lacrosse? Is he a left footed punter?

 

[signbabybrady]

@Ian

Lol I don't even get to see my own posts anymore.

What a dumb tool.

 

[signbabybrady]

It was actually reported. The coaches stopped talking to one another midseason. There was dissension. Remember during the season when we received backchannel information from Belichick about what was going on internally? Whoever was talking to Curran, that person quoted Belichick directly when Belichick supposedly said that "Jonathan's interventions have been brutal." This was in regard to Mayo icing out Belichick. What was Belichick going to do? Fire his DC when he was a lame duck?

Are you saying that Kraft kept talking about firing Belichick in 2017 and 2019 but that he never would have? Because Kraft also said that multiple times Jonathan was pushing to fire Belichick and that Bob had to rein him in. He made Jonathan out to be a guy who was tired of having Belichick as coach half a decade before they fired him.

 

[signbabybrady]

I have never seen any coach do what Belichick did to Mac Jones. Ray Berry never in four subsequent games started a QB and benched him at halftime and then start him again the next game. That would screw with any QB.

It was also a fireable offense. If Aaron Glenn constantly benched Justin Fields at halftime and starting him the next week, we would all be laughing our arses off at the Jets.

Mac should have been permanently benched after the first or second time he was benched. Not the fourth or fifth.

He came back too soon from injury and wasn't ready.

Zappe came back to earth so after another week of rear Bill needed Mac to start again.

Despite everything that was going on between the 2 there was nothing personal that got in the way of this decision there was an ankle injury combined with Zappe for a very brief moment playing as well as Mac.