A deep question

[3 to be 4]

NEM, I think what 3 to be 4 means to say is that God is intolerant of those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior. So according to him, all souls are equal until leaving the body upon death. Then, the souls are divided up by God into two classes. One class, the ones who accepted Jesus as a personal savior, are allowed to enter heaven. All others are thrown away like pieces of garbage into hell because God no longer cares for them. That includes the native peoples of remote lands and millions in China who never heard of Jesus. It also includes people like my friend Ira Goldstein, who dedicated his life to serving God and once saved a medically needy orphan from sure death by adopting him as his own child. It still boggles my mind to think that Ira's wonderful soul -- which was more "Christian" than most Christians -- was doomed to eternal hell.

Its not according to me, according to the Bible.

You still focus on the Hell which Satan wants you to go, God offers the Salvation of Heaven. Dont blame God for Ira's decision. And dont blame me for talking of the Salvation others can have, that God wants for everybody.

God didnt want Ira to miss out on Heaven, I feel bad for Ira, as I am pained every day about my own parents, but I dont wish for there to be more Ira's.

Its like not telling someone who is smoking that their smoking will end up killing them because we are afraid of offending them. Or not telling the relatives of the lung cancer victim that their death was caused by their smoking.

My believing as I do does not create Hell for Ira Goldstein, but if his story can now be used to help others take Salvation more seriously, then fine, thanks for bringing him up again.

Souls are too important to lose over fear of making someone feel bad about the truth. Unless there was some miracle conversion at the end, my parents are going through Ira's fate as well, so this is not something I believe or talk about lightly or coldly. Its terribly painful and it touches me personally. All I can do is make sure I use it as much as I can to make sure as many people as possible do not make the same mistake. The mistake of ignoring the opportunity of finding Salavation through ************.

Eternity is too important to worry about Political Correctness.

 

[Tunescribe]

Its not according to me, according to the Bible.

You still focus on the Hell which Satan wants you to go, God offers the Salvation of Heaven. Dont blame God for Ira's decision. And dont blame me for talking of the Salvation others can have, that God wants for everybody.

God didnt want Ira to miss out on Heaven, I feel bad for Ira, as I am pained every day about my own parents, but I dont wish for there to be more Ira's.

Its like not telling someone who is smoking that their smoking will end up killing them because we are afraid of offending them. Or not telling the relatives of the lung cancer victim that their death was caused by their smoking.

My believing as I do does not create Hell for Ira Goldstein, but if his story can now be used to help others take Salvation more seriously, then fine, thanks for bringing him up again.

Souls are too important to lose over fear of making someone feel bad about the truth. Unless there was some miracle conversion at the end, my parents are going through Ira's fate as well, so this is not something I believe or talk about lightly or coldly. Its terribly painful and it touches me personally. All I can do is make sure I use it as much as I can to make sure as many people as possible do not make the same mistake. The mistake of ignoring the opportunity of finding Salavation through ************.

Eternity is too important to worry about Political Correctness.

It's according to YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible!!!!!! And please, don't try to tell me I'm "focusing" on hell. YOU focus on it more than most people as a fundamentalist religionist via your fear-based drive to be "saved." Saved from what? From hell, right? There is no way you can explain this away. And you know in your heart that Ira Goldstein is not in your literally interpreted "hell" just because he was of a different faith that does not recognized Christ as redeemer. You can believe you go to Las Vegas when you die for all I care, but please do not present your truth to others as THE ONLY TRUTH. Because, it most assuredly is not.

 

[3 to be 4]

It's according to YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible!!!!!! And please, don't try to tell me I'm "focusing" on hell. YOU focus on it more than most people as a fundamentalist religionist via your fear-based drive to be "saved." Saved from what? From hell, right? There is no way you can explain this away. And you know in your heart that Ira Goldstein is not in your literally interpreted "hell" just because he was of a different faith that does not recognized Christ as redeemer. You can believe you go to Las Vegas when you die for all I care, but please do not present your truth to others as THE ONLY TRUTH. Because, it most assuredly is not.

Yes, it is MY INTERPRETATION of the Bible and I have a belief that it is the truth. I have a conviction about it. Its not a matter of "my truth" and "your truth" and "his truth". Truth is truth. Otherwise, what does it mean to believe in something?

And look over these threads. I talk about Christ and you CONTINUALLY jab away with "3 to be 4 believe you are going to Hell". YOU keep bringing up Hell, not me. My focus is on Heaven and the Gospel of ************.

If you arent focused on Hell, why do YOU keep bringing it up?

And if you do want me to tell you what you are focused on, dont tell me what I know in my heart is true about the soul of Ira Goldstein. I didnt know Ira Goldstein. For all I know, (and since no man knows for sure what is in another mans heart, for all you know) he could have had a last minute, faced with death, change of heart.

But I believe what the Bible says. If you have strong convictions on where you stand on all this, why are you concerned about what I have to say about it? You keep bringing up Ira. Are you concerned that what I say may be true?

Try to remember this. My words dont make it so. Im not that powerful.
But God's Word is. Show me an interpretation of the New Testament where Jesus doesnt declare his divinity. Show me an interpretation where He doesnt say "I am the way, the truth, and the life"

Its not about earning our way into Heaven, its about our Faith. None of us deserve it. No one is righteous enough. We are only Saved by Grace. By the blood of Jesus on the cross. He paid it all so that we might live.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes, it is MY INTERPRETATION of the Bible and I have a belief that it is the truth. I have a conviction about it. Its not a matter of "my truth" and "your truth" and "his truth". Truth is truth. Otherwise, what does it mean to believe in something?

And look over these threads. I talk about Christ and you CONTINUALLY jab away with "3 to be 4 believe you are going to Hell". YOU keep bringing up Hell, not me. My focus is on Heaven and the Gospel of ************.

If you arent focused on Hell, why do YOU keep bringing it up?

And if you do want me to tell you what you are focused on, dont tell me what I know in my heart is true about the soul of Ira Goldstein. I didnt know Ira Goldstein. For all I know, (and since no man knows for sure what is in another mans heart, for all you know) he could have had a last minute, faced with death, change of heart.

But I believe what the Bible says. If you have strong convictions on where you stand on all this, why are you concerned about what I have to say about it? You keep bringing up Ira. Are you concerned that what I say may be true?

Try to remember this. My words dont make it so. Im not that powerful.
But God's Word is. Show me an interpretation of the New Testament where Jesus doesnt declare his divinity. Show me an interpretation where He doesnt say "I am the way, the truth, and the life"

Its not about earning our way into Heaven, its about our Faith. None of us deserve it. No one is righteous enough. We are only Saved by Grace. By the blood of Jesus on the cross. He paid it all so that we might live.

>>Show me an interpretation where He doesnt say "I am the way, the truth, and the life"<<

I've already done that with you several times over, yet you don't want to accept it as legitimate. Remember when I argued that it's all about Christ's MESSAGE and his EXAMPLE, not about the man himself? Like I said, you're too hung up on "the finger" to fully appreciate where it's pointing. THAT IS A SPIRITUALLY BASED ALTERNATIVE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE that happens to make a lot more sense to people with open hearts and discerning minds.

And once again, please don't try to tell me that hell isn't just as important to your religionist perspective as is heaven. Without "hell," and your folk-villain "Satan," the very foundation of what you believe unravels to shreds. FEAR of eternal damnation is what drives you to be "saved" and to "save" others. You can't sidestep things by simply saying, "Well, I don't emphasize hell," or, "Homosexuality gets too much emphasis."

Fundamentalism is just too riddled with nonsensical, non-spiritual contradictions to make sense on any level; except, of course, to those who either are brainwashed or mired in addictive personality disorder. I bring up the example of Ira Goldstein as a case in point illustrating why your interpretation of the Bible is so thoroughly flawed. If you would simply think this through, you cannot reasonably suggest that a man who selflessly dedicates his life to serving God and easing the pain and suffering of others is condemned to hell simply because he didn't accept Christ as his personal savior. To the contrary, I have absolutely no concern that what you say in this regard is true.

 

[3 to be 4]

>>Show me an interpretation where He doesnt say "I am the way, the truth, and the life"<<

I've already done that with you several times over, yet you don't want to accept it as legitimate. Remember when I argued that it's all about Christ's MESSAGE and his EXAMPLE, not about the man himself? Like I said, you're too hung up on "the finger" to fully appreciate where it's pointing. THAT IS A SPIRITUALLY BASED ALTERNATIVE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE that happens to make a lot more sense to people with open hearts and discerning minds.

And once again, please don't try to tell me that hell isn't just as important to your religionist perspective as is heaven. Without "hell," and your folk-villain "Satan," the very foundation of what you believe unravels to shreds. FEAR of eternal damnation is what drives you to be "saved" and to "save" others. You can't sidestep things by simply saying, "Well, I don't emphasize hell," or, "Homosexuality gets too much emphasis."

Fundamentalism is just too riddled with nonsensical, non-spiritual contradictions to make sense on any level; except, of course, to those who either are brainwashed or mired in addictive personality disorder. I bring up the example of Ira Goldstein as a case in point illustrating why your interpretation of the Bible is so thoroughly flawed. If you would simply think this through, you cannot reasonably suggest that a man who selflessly dedicates his life to serving God and easing the pain and suffering of others is condemned to hell simply because he didn't accept Christ as his personal savior. To the contrary, I have absolutely no concern that what you say in this regard is true.

You dont like it when I tell you what you are thinking yet you have no problem telling me how I feel about Hell, Heaven, or anything else. In other words, you dish it out quite well but you dont want it back.

"nonsensical", "brainswashed"..."addictive personality disorder"...........
you sound like someone with an empty tank who has to resort to such words. Too bad you cant be secure enough in your beliefs to talk reasonably.

I've given you my beliefs on Hell, on Homosexuality, on Heaven, and instead of responding to what ive said it serves you better to lump me in with what others may have said and just call it "sidestepping". Why? because I dont have a Hell hang-up like you obviously have?

You havent given me a biblical reason reason why its "flawed" that you must accept ************ in order to go to Heaven other than your own personal guidelines on what the rules should be, in other words that Ira was good enough, so according to the law of Tunescribe it only makes sense.

Im definatly pushing a button with you. You cared about the man and this interpretation of the Bible upsets you because of it. I'm sorry, i too have people. But I deal with the truth, so that others dont make the same mistake.

Hell is not as important to me as Heaven because Heaven is where I, as a believer, am going for eternity. I need not worry about Hell for myself. And I wish that everyone else needn't worry about it either and that is why I talk of the Gospel so that they wont.

You, on the other hand, would like the discussion to focus on Hell. This would distract from the good news of ************, which is your intent.

Please open a Bible, read through the New Testament, and explain what Jesus said to Nicodemus, explain what He says about His own diety and how we come to the Father. What does Paul say in Romans regarding Justification by Faith?

Or you could always "sidestep" it and fall back on insulting me which is more your style.

 

[3 to be 4]

Who is the "we?"

all of us. He died for all of us so that we might have life. Now we must each make a choice to accept that gift or turn away from it.

But it is our choice and the ramifications of making the wrong choice is our responsibility.

 

[The Predator]

all of us. He died for all of us so that we might have life. Now we must each make a choice to accept that gift or turn away from it.

But it is our choice and the ramifications of making the wrong choice is our responsibility.

There was a discussion about God being intolerant to unbelievers a while back. MY question is, "How could God be intolerant if, according to your faith, he sent his son to die for the sins of the word?" This just doesn't seem like intolerance to me. If you need to be rescued from something, and someonce provides a way of escape, how is that intolerance?

 

[3 to be 4]

There was a discussion about God being intolerant to unbelievers a while back. MY question is, "How could God be intolerant if, according to your faith, he sent his son to die for the sins of the word?" This just doesn't seem like intolerance to me. If you need to be rescued from something, and someonce provides a way of escape, how is that intolerance?

Exactly. Its more like love.