8/15 - Thursday Pats/Titans Joint Session Thread

2020 Patriots Season:
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Nov 29th

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robertweathers

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absolutely

I don't think that Belichick will change is philosophy and play a backup punt returner and sit Edelman. As someone asked in other post, should we also sit Edelman during clear running downs because we fear that he might be injured?
We want JE on the field for 90% of the snaps. Case closed.

In light of the PR opportunities in decline (I don't know what to make of that but its a trend nonetheless) that does not seem to be a heavy workload and something JE can handle. With that said it further reinforces the notion that Berrios needs to make much more of a significant impact as a WR than I had originally thought.
 

Ring 6

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So we are going to say DT can play at 31 because Jerry Rice played at 31? Seems over the top to say the least. 31 is definitely on the back 9 of a receivers career even without an achilles tear. I would love to be wrong and have him looking like a legitimate receiving threat down the stretch but I seriously doubt it.

You seem to have lost the flow of the discussion. You are the one saying pulling an example of another player at another time in different circumstances is a valid argument. I’m just showing the opposite example to illustrate that’s a terrible approach. Glad we agree on that.

As for traveling with the team, Danny Etling did last year and how did that work out for him?
Huh? Etling wasn’t injured. How does that apply?
The point is if they didn’t think Thomas was progressing with the injury recovery they wouldn’t be bringing him on the road.
 

Ring 6

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We want JE on the field for 90% of the snaps. Case closed.

In light of the PR opportunities in decline (I don't know what to make of that but its a trend nonetheless) that does not seem to be a heavy workload and something JE can handle. With that said it further reinforces the notion that Berrios needs to make much more of a significant impact as a WR than I had originally thought.
In BBs view pint returns are part of that 90% of snaps.
I see no evidence that he is any more likely to get injured on punt return than on offense.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
You do not know Gordon's current mental/psychological state, so to assume/imply that he is not in control is unfair to him.

How is anyone supposed to recover from this pernicious illness/disease if we assume they aren't capable of recovering?
He has failed so many times that it is only logical to expect he will again.

Josh doesn’t know me so I’m sure my opinions about his chances at success won’t affect him. I could be 100% optimistic or totally convinced he will fail and what ends up happening will be exactly the same.
 

Clonamery

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When’s the last time we’ve heard of that happening? I don’t recall too many instances for something that Reiss says is “common” for players to do.
We haven't traveled for a lot of these preseason team practices. We're usually at home, the only other one on the road was against the Saints in WV at The Greenbrier and Carolina. I think they were hoping he might be able to practice and play Saturday but once that wasn't gonna happen, he was sent back. It's a short week with a Thursday game. If he ain't practicing Tuesday...
 

203Pat

In the Starting Line-Up
You seem to have lost the flow of the discussion. You are the one saying pulling an example of another player at another time in different circumstances is a valid argument. I’m just showing the opposite example to illustrate that’s a terrible approach. Glad we agree on that.


Huh? Etling wasn’t injured. How does that apply?
The point is if they didn’t think Thomas was progressing with the injury recovery they wouldn’t be bringing him on the road.
The point is previously great receivers gradually decline when they are north of 30 then suffer a major injury and that a lot of times puts the nail in the coffin. Jerry Rice aside it happens to lots of top end receivers.

As for Etling, you for some reason make something out of DT traveling with the team when he isn't going to play. The same thing happened with Dawson, Bentley, Gronk, Tyler Gaffney etc. What is that supposed to tell us?
 

Mike the Brit

Minuteman Target
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I don't think that Belichick will change is philosophy and play a backup punt returner and sit Edelman. As someone asked in other post, should we also sit Edelman during clear running downs because we fear that he might be injured?

I'm not sure BB is that fixed. If I recall correctly, Amendola took over punt return from Edelman, even though Edelman was still clearly the number one returner, because they wanted to reward Amendola by expanding his role. Amendola wasn't playing just as a punt returner, but you could say he was a back-up. Then, last year, there was Riley McCarron, who was only there to catch punts when Edelman was out.
 

Kargetina

On the Game Day Roster
The statistics indicate that Gordon has been roughly half as productive in far less than half the time/games played.

It seems to reinforce the argument that Gordon has more ability than Thomas (although not by a big margin, Thomas himself is a very gifted WR). This isn't/shouldn't be a controversial opinion; Gordon has the ability to be one of the best receivers in the history of the league, his issue has been staying on the field.

All that said, Thomas has been much more consistent/reliable throughout his career insofar as staying on the field.


DT has 9,154 career yards and 62 TD's (127 games) vs Gordon's (52 games) 3,826 yards and 19 TD'S.

DT averages 72 yards/0.488 TD per game
JG averages 73 yards/036 TD per game

JG's averages are vastly inflated by his 2013 season and DT's averages are deflated by his first two seasons when he started only 7 of the 21 games he played in.

Without 2013, Gordon averages 57 yards/0.3 TD per game
Without 2010/11, DT averages 76.5 yards/0.5 TD per game

I don't like discussing the hypothetical, i don't mind that you think that Gordon could have been an all time great, maybe he could've, but we'll never know.

What i do mind is saying that Gordon was a Top tier receiver while DT wasn't which is simply false:

2012-2015

DT 5787 yards/ 42 TD's
Antonio Brown 5818 yards/36 TD's
Julio 5242 yards/26 TD's (missed 11 games in 2013 due to injury)

Now whether he can be even 60% of what he was is an entirely different matter.
 

Ring 6

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The point is previously great receivers gradually decline when they are north of 30 then suffer a major injury and that a lot of times puts the nail in the coffin. Jerry Rice aside it happens to lots of top end receivers.
And it doesn’t happen to a lot, including Julian Edelman.

As for Etling, you for some reason make something out of DT traveling with the team when he isn't going to play. The same thing happened with Dawson, Bentley, Gronk, Tyler Gaffney etc. What is that supposed to tell us?
Those are not like examples. Thomas is ON PUP IN CAMP and traveling to joint practice sessions. None of those examples did that.

If you want to think Thomas is months away but the bring him along anyway while you root against him, go for it.
This conversation is just going nowhere.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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We haven't traveled for a lot of these preseason team practices. We're usually at home, the only other one on the road was against the Saints in WV at The Greenbrier and Carolina. I think they were hoping he might be able to practice and play Saturday but once that wasn't gonna happen, he was sent back. It's a short week with a Thursday game. If he ain't practicing Tuesday...
I just don’t recall any players ever doing this before, so I’m not sure how “common” it is, but that would be great if it’s as simple as that. Fingers crossed. We’re going to need him to step up while DT and Gordon are out. I read that Harris may be hurt now, too.
 

203Pat

In the Starting Line-Up
And it doesn’t happen to a lot, including Julian Edelman.
Reggie Wayne, Dez Bryant, Tory Holt, Marvin Harrison are just a few I can name off the top of my head who suffered late career injuries they never bounced back from.



Those are not like examples. Thomas is ON PUP IN CAMP and traveling to joint practice sessions. None of those examples did that.

If you want to think Thomas is months away but the bring him along anyway while you root against him, go for it.
This conversation is just going nowhere.

I don't know why you think he will bounce back because he is traveling with the team. But you are right about one thing at least, this conversation isn't going anywhere.
 

PScottman

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
First, the top 3 WR's get over 90% of the reps. The #4 and #5 WR's get almost no reps over the course of the season.

I'm interested to see if that's true this year without Gronk. If the WRs are as close as they look in skill, is a Defensive Tackle-like "rotation" out of the question?
 

Ring 6

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Reggie Wayne, Dez Bryant, Tory Holt, Marvin Harrison are just a few I can name off the top of my head who suffered late career injuries they never bounced back from.
Bryant was injured last year.
The rest were old.
I don’t know what your point is.
Yes players get hurt and don’t bounce back. Players also get hurt and so bounce back.
It’s like you are saying 1st round picks suck because you can name busts.



I don't know why you think he will bounce back because he is traveling with the team. But you are right about one thing at least, this conversation isn't going anywhere.
Then it should end.
 
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