5 teams in 2009 on the rise & 5 teams in decline

[Ring 6]

The 2008 Atlanta Falcons and the Baltimore Ravens call you a liar.

he said usually.

 

[glm]

But the guy doesn't play hard when it isn't easy.

Examples.

Look at his last season in Minnesota and his time in Oakland.

I see that he was injured in all three of those years.

Wayne has way more yards than Moss over the last 5 years.

2004 - Injured
2005 - Injured with Kerry Collins throwing to him.
2006 - Injured with Andrew Walter and Aaron rooks throwing to him.
2007 - Healthy with Brady throwing to him.
2008 - Healthy with Matt Cassell throwing to him.

Wayne:
2004 - Healthy with Peyton Manning throwing to him.
2005 - Healthy with Manning throwing to him.
2006 - Healthy with Manning throwing to him.
2007 - Healthy with Manning throwing to him.
2008 - Healthy with Manning throwing to him.

Do you see any advantages in there?

You can say it's because of whatever you want, but the bottom line is Wayne has produced more than Moss.

In much better conditions.

To me, a receiver that produces is better than one that does not.

Weird, I always thought a receiver that doesn't produce was much better than the one that doesn't.

Moss flat out gave up in Minnesota and Oakland.

It's not like he was injured or anything . . .

There is no reason that guy shouldn't get 1,000 yards a season, no matter who is throwing him the ball, given his talent. None.

So I guess if Reggie Wayne got injured and had let's say Joey Harrington to miss games there should be no reason why he shouldn't have a 1,000 yard season, given his talent. None.

Look at Calvin Johnson in Detroit. That guy played on one of the worst teams ever, with no talent around,

Yeah, that's it! Give Kevin Smith absolutely no credit.

freaking Daunte Culpepper throwing him the ball and he gets 1300 yards.

I remember when Randy would get 1300 yards with Daunte Cullpepper throwing him the ball.

So why with Arena league talent all around him

Again, no credit to Kevin Smith.

does Calvin Johnson get 1300 yards but Moss failed to even crack 1,000 twice?

I'll give you a hint, it starts with an 'i.'

Because Moss quits sometimes.

No, I already told you the answer.

Guys like Johnson and Wayne do not.

I wonder how Wayne would do with a horrible team, a horrible quarterback, a horrible supporting cast, and being injured would do . . .

And you all just keep saying the door is closing.

Because it is . . .

I hear it every season.

I doubt you heard it in 2004. Stop exagerating.

Hasn't happened yet.

Trust me, it will.

The Colts are one of the best drafting teams in the league.

Especially when they need to draft players to stop the run.

They never pick up big free agents but they always find a replacement.

That explains the excellent run defense.

Faulk want's big money? Draft James. James want's big money. Draft Addai. Addai's got a contract coming up and isn't playing all that great? Bring in Brown. Dilger and Pollard leave? Bring in Dallas Clark.

Instead of focusing on important issues they need to address, like their run D, they draft more players on offense.

Yep, very smart drafting.

How do you replace a HOF receiver like Harrison? With another guy you drafted named Wayne

Replaced? Is that why he was playing on the opposite side of him?

Like I said, you Pats fans keep talking about closing doors.

Yes, it's just exclusively us.

You're team is older than the Colts,

Yet, still better.

missed the playoffs last year

With a QB who hasn't started a game since high school, and with the highest regular season record ever to not make the playoffs.

and hasn't won anything since 2004.

16 -0 . . . AFC championship doesn't ring a bell?

Your QB is coming back from a serious injury

Yet not as bad as your QB's last year.

and your schedule isn't the AFC/NFC West cakewalk it was last year.

Yeah, and?

I know everyone is hyping the Pats as SB winners around here already,

Don't most fans do that with their teams, or are we just kinda weird?

but the fact is the Colts have won one and the Steelers two since the last time the Pats won one.

I'm sure that's very important to state considering we're talking about the future. Good jod.

The Colts have taken 4 out of the last 5 from the Pats,

And the Patriots in with Brady playing have taken it 7 to the Colts 3.

Pats fans keep saying the Pats are better than the Colts, but 4 out of 5? And 4 of those had Brady at QB.

Colts fans keep saying the Colts are better than the Pats, but 7 out of 10? And 10 of those had Manning at QB.

Bottom line the Colts aren't going to start 3-4 again.

You could be right, they could start worse.

Manning isn't going to come in totally out of shape like last season.

Yeah, just with a completely differnt coaching staff.

The O line isn't going be starting rookies.

If it's the same rookies that supposedly sucked then I don't really see anything to be proud of.

They are a young team

Because young always = good.

that has won at least 12 games since 2003.

Well I'll personaly give them each a cookie.

Every year someone says the window is closing, it hasn't yet.

With all the football fans in the world, I would expect at least one person to say so and so team's window is closing.

Teams have down years. Look at NE in 2005.

A down year for them and they still mad the playoffs.

As for waiting to see if the run D improves because it was 24th last year, that's kind of my point. It was 24th last year and the team went 12-4. If Johnson and Moala it's got to be better than 24th.

If Johnson and Moala what?

Like said though, I think it's funny that the Colts window is closing but not the Pats who are older by far.

Older =/= Worse.

Buy some new logicz.

Pretty hypocritical IMO.

Again, new logicz.

I'll bump this thread at the end of the season after the Colts have won 12 or 13 again.

I'm not sure how many years this thread will still be on here.

 

[Metaphors]

Hold on, you don't see any reason Manning will improve his 2008 numbers? Did you watch the second half of last year? Manning was hurt before the season. He didn't train, he lost all kinds of weight and muscle. He didn't look like Manning at all the first half of the season. But then the second half of the season after he recovered he tore it up and looked as good as ever.

Are the Colts going to be the 2004 Colts? Of course not. Is Manning going to throw for 30-some TD's and 4000 yards? Absolutely. And he's going to be better than last year because he's not having two surgeries on his knees.

Here are the stats from the final 8 games of 2008:

@PIT: 53%, 6.0 YPA, 96 Rating
HOU: 65%, 7.0 YPA, 100 Rating
@SD: 73%, 5.8 YPA, 93 Rating
@CLE: 71%, 6.0 YPA, 47 Rating

So far, hardly the Manning of old. Efficient, dink-n-dunk and minimizing mistakes. Serious props for 4 close wins, three on the road.

CIN: 81%, 8.7 YPA, 134 Rating
DET: 76%, 8.6 YPA, 110 Rating
@JAX: 85%, 10.7 YPA, 141 Rating
TEN: 100%, 13.6 YPA, 158 Rating

Now there is the Manning we remember. At home against a miserable Bengals team. At home against an historically bad Lions team. On the road against a Jaguars team that had long since given up. And at home against a Titans team just trying to avoid injury.

So remove the romantic notions of Manning slinging the ball all over the field and the reality is much different. Can Manning throw for 4000 yards in 2009? You bet...in fact he likely will have to. But at a YPA in the low 7's, he will be launching 35-40 passes a game. 30-some TDs? Since he pretty much lives in the 27-31 range recently, as long as the "some" refers to plus-or-minus 1 TD...I'll buy that too.

4000 yards and 30 TDs in a season where Manning chucks the ball over 550 times? Highly likely and totally unspectacular. Unless you are Derek Anderson in 2007 or the Jakes (Delhomme/Plummer) in 2004. My point is that level of product isn't enough to dictate opposing defensive schemes or force opposing teams out of their power running approach. That leads to closer games and depending on lucky bounces. Eventually that worm turns.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Manning won't win another playoff game? Sorry man, conversation over. We were having a decent discussion but with just total nonsense like that you've shown your colors. It's a waste of both our time now.

Have fun.

How the hell do a healthy 12-4 Colts team, lose to an 8-8 Chargers team with LT hardly playing and a hobbled Gates? And I can't believe nobody has answered my question in my earlier post. I don't care that they were on the road, this is unacceptable. The Colts are on the decline, they refuse to sign free agents and their drafts are average. They refuse to get strong up the middle and their LB's will always wear down because their small. On offense, Addai had a terrible year due to him either already wearing down or their O-line needs to improve their run blocking. In addition, they don't have a legit deep threat, making it take forever for the Colts to score. They will scratch and claw for every win like they did last year. Their record is very misleading because they could have easily lost 3 or more games. Dude, face the facts, even with Manning, the Colts are done. End of story.

 

[vyrago]

In no particular order...

DECLINE

- Miami: Landshark Stadium? Seriously?

.

I can't see or hear that word without thinking of that great old SNL skit. Or is that the purpose of the name?

Candygram my foot!

 

[AzPatsFan]

Atlanta had a rookie coach and QB last year. So did Baltimore.

But Sanchez wouldn't have been drafted until the third or fourth round that year. Starting 16 games in a collegiate career when he sat behind a nonentity, is hardly inspiring.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If Johnson and Moala what?

Don't get kicked off the team again (like he did in college too) and turn out to be another overhyped USC product, I guess...

 

[Kontradiction]

How the hell do a healthy 12-4 Colts team, lose to an 8-8 Chargers team with LT hardly playing and a hobbled Gates?

Not to mention Merriman was not in the game...

 

[glm]

Don't get kicked off the team again (like he did in college too) and turn out to be another overhyped USC product, I guess...

Sounds about right.

 

[PatsFan24]

Colts will prob have about the same record they did in 2008. They will win the south. However Manning winning the MVP was a crock! Peterson or even Turner should have won it before Manning.

 

[glm]

Colts will prob have about the same record they did in 2008. They will win the south. However Manning winning the MVP was a crock! Peterson or even Turner should have won it before Manning.

Or Brees, or Warner, or Fitzgerald, or DeAngelo Williams etc. deserved it more than Maninng.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Well, believe whatever you want. I never said Moss wasn't physically better than Wayne or more talented. But the guy doesn't play hard when it isn't easy. Look at his last season in Minnesota and his time in Oakland. Facts are facts.

Wayne has way more yards than Moss over the last 5 years. You can say it's because of whatever you want, but the bottom line is Wayne has produced more than Moss. To me, a receiver that produces is better than one that does not. Moss flat out gave up in Minnesota and Oakland. There is no reason that guy shouldn't get 1,000 yards a season, no matter who is throwing him the ball, given his talent. None.

Look at Calvin Johnson in Detroit. That guy played on one of the worst teams ever, with no talent around, freaking Daunte Culpepper throwing him the ball and he gets 1300 yards. So why with Arena league talent all around him does Calvin Johnson get 1300 yards but Moss failed to even crack 1,000 twice?

Because Moss quits sometimes. Guys like Johnson and Wayne do not.

And you all just keep saying the door is closing. I hear it every season. Hasn't happened yet. The Colts are one of the best drafting teams in the league. They never pick up big free agents but they always find a replacement. Faulk want's big money? Draft James. James want's big money. Draft Addai. Addai's got a contract coming up and isn't playing all that great? Bring in Brown. Dilger and Pollard leave? Bring in Dallas Clark.

How do you replace a HOF receiver like Harrison? With another guy you drafted named Wayne who is working towards the HOF. Next up is Gonzo.

Like I said, you Pats fans keep talking about closing doors. You're team is older than the Colts, missed the playoffs last year and hasn't won anything since 2004. Your QB is coming back from a serious injury and your schedule isn't the AFC/NFC West cakewalk it was last year.

I know everyone is hyping the Pats as SB winners around here already, but the fact is the Colts have won one and the Steelers two since the last time the Pats won one. The Colts have taken 4 out of the last 5 from the Pats, Pats fans keep saying the Pats are better than the Colts, but 4 out of 5? And 4 of those had Brady at QB.

Bottom line the Colts aren't going to start 3-4 again. Manning isn't going to come in totally out of shape like last season. The O line isn't going be starting rookies.

They are a young team that has won at least 12 games since 2003. Every year someone says the window is closing, it hasn't yet. Teams have down years. Look at NE in 2005.

As for waiting to see if the run D improves because it was 24th last year, that's kind of my point. It was 24th last year and the team went 12-4. If Johnson and Moala it's got to be better than 24th.

Like said though, I think it's funny that the Colts window is closing but not the Pats who are older by far. Pretty hypocritical IMO.

I'll bump this thread at the end of the season after the Colts have won 12 or 13 again.

So what you're basically saying is that, if you ignore Moss's best season, and you ignore all outside circumstances, and you ignore that Moss played in one of the most dysfunctional offenses in the history of the NFL, and ignore that relevant recent history indicates that Moss is a lock for 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs, you can then make the case that Wayne is better than Moss? Say what you want about when he does and doesn't play hard, but it certainly wasn't easy last year, when the offense was being run by a QB who hadn't started a game since high school. Moss played great then. Besides, pretty crazy to think that Moss 'quit' his was to the most TDs in a single season of all time.

FWIW, I do think that the Colts will win 12 games and the AFCS. But everyone drafts rookies, everyone loses players to injury, and everyone has their rosters age. You can't reasonably say that the Colts will be better because they drafted some young talent, because *everyone* did exactly that. Until that talent demonstrates that it can produce on the field, it can only mean so much.

BTW, I do find it funny that, after spending all of this time stressing how it's a misperception that the Colts are old, you then go and make the same mistake by claiming that the Pats are. Bruschi is a backup, Vrabel is gone, the entire starting defensive line is under 30, there isn't a starting offensive lineman over 32, Brady is 31, Maroney is 24, the entire safety rotation is under 30, Springs is the only CB over 30 in the top 5, the reigning ROY is starting at LB, likely alongside second-year player Guyton, and Adalius Thomas is the only OLB over 30.

How, exactly, are the Pats old?

Fact is, it's been quite a while since the Pats or the Colts won anything. Sure, the Colts won in 2006. And the Pats won in 2001, 2003, and 2004. All of those years are pretty far in the rear-view mirror. I really don't have much negative to say about the Colts: as I said earlier in the thread, the Colts are one of the only teams that I fear as a Pats fan. That said, the convenient caveat in your argument is that the Pats did kinda sorta go 18-1 and make the Super Bowl in 2007. That does matter.

Along the same lines, being the only team to miss the playoffs at 11-5 in decades doesn't strike me as any worse than going to the playoffs as a wildcard and losing to an 8-8 team.

 

[gomezcat]

Line of Scrimmage: 5 Teams on the Rise, 5 on the Decline | CharlotteObserver.com

This article involves naming 5 NFL teams that they think are on thier way up to very good to elite status and 5 that are on their way down to home for the playoffs status.

I would say NE is not in this catagory,sure they missed the playoffs last year and Brady was not playing, but its not like they were a team going downward since most of the roster stayed the same - I would not include them in this thread but anyways.....

I say 5 teams on the rise this year are .....


1 - Lions - This is an easy one,after 0-16 you can only go up,guaranteed they will do better this year

2 - Bengals - They say Palmer is back at 100% and if Ochocinco and Henry can overcome the loss of Houshmenzada they could challenge the North title,The defense with Rivers returning who I think will be a very good LB in this league could be better as well.

3 - Saints - VERY dissapointing season last year despite Brees nearly passing Marino with the passing record,I think this is going to be the breakout season for Reggie Bush since McAllister is no longer there with the only question is the defensive secondary which to me is their weak spot - I still see this team advancing to the NFCCG this year so yes,that is a major improvement.

4 - Bears - I am one of probably only a few that thinks Cutler will flourish in this offense as for the first time in years the Bears have a legitimate Quarterback with proven quality - If Briggs,Urlacher and Harris come back after a horrendous 2008 defensive disaster,this could be the best team in the division.

5 - Cowboys - Missed the playoffs last year,This team is simply too talented to miss them again - Tony Romo is going to have a great year since Owens has taken his crybaby show elsewhere and Barber could have a tremendous season and any defense with Ware in it will be tough.


I say 5 Teams on the Decline are .....

1 - Colts - I think even though Peyton is still there he is starting to show signs of a less powerful passing game with his man Harrison leaving and Wayne not getting any younger,The RB situation is in limbo with Addai having surgery and no real great backups there - The defense has shown signs of wearing a bit as I think Freeney has had his best days and only Sanders is still going strong from the core of this teams defense during this decade. - This team could miss the playoffs for the first time in years with a tough division to handle.

2 - Titans - Another team from the same division I see not having the same success as in 2008,You really have to think the Titans will have a big QB controversy as the season progresses because I think Collins and Young will be fighting for the starting position as the season moves along and thats not good for any team,and with the loss of Haynesworth that leaves a hole the size of the grand canyon on that defensive front line - I think the only bright spot for this team will be the Rookie Kenny Britt which is one of my choices for OROTY no matter who throws to him.

3 - Dolphins - Simply saying the Wildcat will fool no one this year - in fact many teams will be implementing this formation into their offense in a copycat league,Tom Brady is back so defending the division title will be extremely tough and Porter will be hard pressed to repeat his superb performance in the sack department.

4 - Broncos - I wish McDaniels luck but this team needs something real positive to happen for them not to destruct from within,The Cassel situation now leaves them with Orton as starting QB who is O.K. as a backup,but will not get them to the playoffs - This team could be last in the division with the Raiders leaping over them

5 - Cardinals - I think the team has the best 1-2 WR tamden in the league but Warner is another year older and Leinart has yet to prove anything and the defense still has some holes - Remember they fall into the super bowl loser jinx as well


Honerable Mention - on the rise - San Diego
- on the decline - Baltimore

Teams on the rise- agree that Detroit can't get any worse. I would also add KC in the next two or three years. I also think the Rams will improve under Spags. I'm cheating because those teams are at the bottom and can only get better.

I think Green Bay will improve once they get their heads around the 3-4. It might be another season though.

Falling teams-I suspect that the Bears have had their time. That D has talent on paper but a couple of key members haven't performed well recently. I'm not confident re Cutler.

I think the Raiders will continue into oblivion. They could be this year's Detroit. I'm not sure about Buffalo either. There is talent on the team, but the coaching is suspect. We'll see.

I disagree re Arizona and Tennessee. They're very well coached teams with talent and toughness. They may not reach the heights of last season but I can't see them being that far off. Same with Miami.

 

[Rob0729]

Atlanta had a rookie coach and QB last year. So did Baltimore.

It happens but most of the time rookie QBs struggle. Even Peyton was mediocre his rookie season. The norm is for rookie QBs to struggle quite a bit.

 

[Rob0729]

The 2008 Atlanta Falcons and the Baltimore Ravens call you a liar.

Two teams in ten year or longer. It was a fluke that both did that. Name the last team before those two who had both a rookie head coach and rookie QB that did well. I bet it takes you a really long time to come up with it.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the colts will have problems on both sides of the ball.......

on defense, a new scheme that will take more chances will give up more big plays........being more aggressive will allow the offense to crate more holes for the running game at least until their new guys on the inside of the DL learn their jobs......OG's will be sprung much more to take on LB's at the next level

on offense, they simply can't run the ball and have no WR depth to speak of......harrison's mere presence last year forced opponents to include him in the scheme........without him, the schemes can focus on wayne more and gonzalez has not proven he can remain healthy for more than a couple of weeks straight..........they can try to ride wayne and clark, but it won't be enough to produce a top NFL offense

the pats offense was more dynamic with matt cassel as a qb than were the colts.........donald brown may help, but the OL is still getting pushed around

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Line of Scrimmage: 5 Teams on the Rise, 5 on the Decline | CharlotteObserver.com

This article involves naming 5 NFL teams that they think are on thier way up to very good to elite status and 5 that are on their way down to home for the playoffs status.

I would say NE is not in this catagory,sure they missed the playoffs last year and Brady was not playing, but its not like they were a team going downward since most of the roster stayed the same - I would not include them in this thread but anyways.....

I say 5 teams on the rise this year are .....


1 - Lions - IF 1--15 or 3--13 are definitions of "rise," then yep.
2 - Bengals -PROBABLY if Carson's at full strength and powers.
3 - Saints - GOOD TEAM that had a bad year. Not sure that qualifies them as being on the rise. They have to meet their potential, not rise from the ashes.
4 - Bears - WITH THE Cutler trade, they'd better "rise" or the Chicago Fire will look like a weenie roast after their fans torch the town.
5 - Cowboys - TOO GOOD a team to be described as "on the rise." They're another team that has to live up to its potential.


I say 5 Teams on the Decline are .....

1 - Colts - UNTIL Peyton shows that he's no longer one of the two best QB's in the league, the Colts will be a threat to be in the big game.
2 - Titans - AGREE. Collins had an out of his mind year and Young will not be any better this year than before.
3 - Dolphins - AGREE. They caught a lot of teams by surprise last year. Not happening again.
4 - Broncos - AGREE. ANY team that loses a quality starting QB under rancorous circumstances is probably doomed to an off year. Not Josh's solo fault, but it's hard to imagine that it will help him in the lockerroom or with the mediots.
5 - Cardinals - HARD TO describe the year after an SB loss as going into "decline," but I don't see them back in the big game this year or for a long time. A team that played out of its mind in January, but that I think played "like itself" the rest of the season. 9--7 would look good for them this year.

Thanks. Please see above in bold. Also, agree with your assessment of the Pats..

 

[SyN65]

Or Brees, or Warner, or Fitzgerald, or DeAngelo Williams etc. deserved it more than Maninng.

Uhhhh...no.

Brees - If they made the playoffs, then yes.

Warner - No. It wasn't just him that carried that team into the playoffs.

Fitz - Same as Warner.

Deangelo Williams - Had a fantastic season but didn't quite do what Peyton did.


I do think that Rivers should have been in consideration for MVP as well. Turner maybe. Vikings didn't make the playoffs and Peterson fumbled too much.

 

[glm]

Uhhhh...no.

Brees - If they made the playoffs, then yes.

Warner - No. It wasn't just him that carried that team into the playoffs.

Fitz - Same as Warner.

Deangelo Williams - Had a fantastic season but didn't quite do what Peyton did.


I do think that Rivers should have been in consideration for MVP as well. Turner maybe. Vikings didn't make the playoffs and Peterson fumbled too much.

Eh whatever. Rivers did deserve it more the Peyton and I feel Turner did too.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Not to mention Merriman was not in the game...

Totally forgot about that. Even worse!