3 TE Set In Passing Situations?.

[mgteich]

Do any of you really want us in 3 TE sets in passing situations? I don't. I would almost always play Gronk, Hogan, Patterson/Dorsett, and White/Burkhead/Michel. The 11th player would a blocking/outlet TE or FB, or one of the above players.

WR (2)
TE (1)
RB (1)
QB (1)
blocker or 3rd WR (1)

Until Burkhead and Michel are healthy, we have
[Gronk, Hogan, Dorsett/Patterson, White, Allen/Develin] as our passing offense

Apparently, I have outraged some by suggesting that Hollister is not one of our top receiving targets. IMHO, we only need 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1 RB as targets.

 

[maineman209]

Do any of you really want us in 3 TE sets in passing situations? I don't. I would almost always play Gronk, Hogan, Patterson/Dorsett, and White/Burkhead/Michel. The 11th player would a blocking/outlet TE or FB, or one of the above players.

WR (2)
TE (1)
RB (1)
QB (1)
blocker or 3rd WR (1)

Until Burkhead and Michel are healthy, we have
[Gronk, Hogan, Patterson, White, Allen/Develin] as our passing offense

Apparently, I have outraged some by suggesting that Hollister is not one of our top receiving targets. IMHO, we only need 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1 RB as targets.

I'd put Dorsett ahead of Patterson, but I agree that Hollister is more of an ancillary target at this point, along with Allen and Hill and Develin.

 

[mgteich]

I'd put Dorsett ahead of Patterson, but I agree that Hollister is more of an ancillary target at this point, along with Allen and Hill and Develin.

fixed

 

[Ring 6]

Do any of you really want us in 3 TE sets in passing situations? I don't. I would almost always play Gronk, Hogan, Patterson/Dorsett, and White/Burkhead/Michel. The 11th player would a blocking/outlet TE or FB, or one of the above players.

WR (2)
TE (1)
RB (1)
QB (1)
blocker or 3rd WR (1)

Until Burkhead and Michel are healthy, we have
[Gronk, Hogan, Dorsett/Patterson, White, Allen/Develin] as our passing offense

Apparently, I have outraged some by suggesting that Hollister is not one of our top receiving targets. IMHO, we only need 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1 RB as targets.

Triggered much?
You didn’t outrage anyone, you made a questionable statement that we don’t want a te other than gronk who can catch a pass.

Why in the world would you prefer Allen or devlin to Hollister as a receiver?

You do understand that a second TE actually does catch passes right? Bennett, Hernandez, wright, chandler.
We almost always have had one since 2010.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

From what I have read so far, Hollister has improved a lot. Why minimize his potential contributions?

 

[stinkypete]

Triggered much?
You didn’t outrage anyone, you made a questionable statement that we don’t want a te other than gronk who can catch a pass.

Why in the world would you prefer Allen or devlin to Hollister as a receiver?

You do understand that a second TE actually does catch passes right? Bennett, Hernandez, wright, chandler.
We almost always have had one since 2010.

I wouldn't say that Chandler actually caught much of anything, but I get the point.

A second pass catching TE has typically always been part of the offense. I hope that Hollister is viable in this role, and the early returns are promising, but I understand the mindset that, until he proves himself a contributor, relying on him is just wishful thinking.

It is also worth noting that Hernandez and Bennett are outliers as big production guys in multiple TE sets.

 

[Ring 6]

I wouldn't say that Chandler actually caught much of anything, but I get the point.

A second pass catching TE has typically always been part of the offense. I hope that Hollister is viable in this role, and the early returns are promising, but I understand the mindset that, until he proves himself a contributor, relying on him is just wishful thinking.

It is also worth noting that Hernandez and Bennett are outliers as big production guys in multiple TE sets.

Hernandez and Bennett make up half the seasons since 2010, not an outlier.
Chandler and wright were obvious efforts to add receiving TEs regardless of blocking and they tried hard to implement them. Last year Allen was expected to be both blocker and receiver but sucked as a receiver so they acquired Bennett as an effort to have a strictly receiving TE. The outlier was 2013 when they couldn’t replace Hernandez in short order.

 

[maineman209]

From what I have read so far, Hollister has improved a lot. Why minimize his potential contributions?

On the advice of our cat, Tarzan (aka, Tarzanasaurus Rex), I have decided to maintain low expectations for Hollister and hope he exceeds them. That's the approach that Tarzan takes with us - and all humans.

PS: Tarzan says we've rarely met his expectations, much less exceeded them, but he's trying to remain optimistic.

 

[mgteich]

Hernandez and Bennett make up half the seasons since 2010, not an outlier.
Chandler and wright were obvious efforts to add receiving TEs regardless of blocking and they tried hard to implement them. Last year Allen was expected to be both blocker and receiver but sucked as a receiver so they acquired Bennett as an effort to have a strictly receiving TE. The outlier was 2013 when they couldn’t replace Hernandez in short order.

Bennett was very important as a backup to Gronk and importantly was a good blocker. Hernandez was important because of the lack of other receiving threats.

You have your opinion. For me, Hollister is at least behind Gronk, 3 top receivers, and 2 RB's.

Perhaps our #7 receiving threat has gotten a lot of reps in the past. I don't think so.
===========
In 2017, seven receivers accounted for 90% of the receptions. The other 8 totaled a bit more than 2 receptions per game. Those 7 included 1 TE, 3 WR and 3 RB's. The 4th WR and the 2nd TE were next at a bit less than 1 reception per game each.

I see no reason for a change.

 

[maineman209]

I wouldn't say that Chandler actually caught much of anything, but I get the point.

A second pass catching TE has typically always been part of the offense. I hope that Hollister is viable in this role, and the early returns are promising, but I understand the mindset that, until he proves himself a contributor, relying on him is just wishful thinking.

It is also worth noting that Hernandez and Bennett are outliers as big production guys in multiple TE sets.

It seems to me that the Pats have primarily signed/drafted TEs who could block well and catch some (or, sometimes, a lot). Bennett was a very good blocker, but Hernandez was the outlier in that respect.

I think that what Hollister is going to need to improve in order to see a lot of snaps in 2TE sets is his blocking, more than his receiving.

 

[PScottman]

Do any of you really want us in 3 TE sets in passing situations? I don't. I would almost always play Gronk, Hogan, Patterson/Dorsett, and White/Burkhead/Michel. The 11th player would a blocking/outlet TE or FB, or one of the above players.

WR (2)
TE (1)
RB (1)
QB (1)
blocker or 3rd WR (1)

Until Burkhead and Michel are healthy, we have
[Gronk, Hogan, Dorsett/Patterson, White, Allen/Develin] as our passing offense

Apparently, I have outraged some by suggesting that Hollister is not one of our top receiving targets. IMHO, we only need 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1 RB as targets.

I would say it totally depends on down, distance, position on the field, etc. There are plenty of short field passing situations as well.

I also think this team has shown in the past that the previous week's practice performance often is the deciding factor on personnel groupings (in addition to of course the game plan implementation).

So while I do agree that your hypothesis is sound and will indeed bear out, there will probably be some small surprises as well.

 

[Ring 6]

Bennett was very important as a backup to Gronk and importantly was a good blocker. Hernandez was important because of the lack of other receiving threats.

Bennett was not a backup to Gronk. He caught 33 passes in 8 games they played together.
Bennett at best was an adequate blocker, and the knock when he got here was he wasn’t wven a willing blocker.

You have your opinion. For me, Hollister is at least behind Gronk, 3 top receivers, and 2 RB's.

It depends upon formation.
While 2 RBs May share receiving duties they will rarely be on the field together. When we have 2 TEs there won’t be a WR3.

Perhaps our #7 receiving threat has gotten a lot of reps in the past. I don't think so.
===========
In 2017, seven receivers accounted for 90% of the receptions. The other 8 totaled a bit more than 2 receptions per game. Those 7 included 1 TE, 3 WR and 3 RB's. The 4th WR and the 2nd TE were next at a bit less than 1 reception per game each.

I see no reason for a change.

There is plenty of reason to change, particularly that 2 of the 3 WRs and 1 if the RBs are gone, every season is different, and the TE2 has less than 1 reception because he sucked. Is your argument that if we had Hernandez or Bennett last year they would have been the 7th option? That’s kind of silly.

 

[Ring 6]

It seems to me that the Pats have primarily signed/drafted TEs who could block well and catch some (or, sometimes, a lot). Bennett was a very good blocker, but Hernandez was the outlier in that respect.

I think that what Hollister is going to need to improve in order to see a lot of snaps in 2TE sets is his blocking, more than his receiving.

I expect Allen and Hollister will share the TE2 role, and opponent will have a lot to do with who gets what share.
I expect Hollister to end up with somwhere around 25-30 caches and Allen around 20.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

On the advice of our cat, Tarzan (aka, Tarzanasaurus Rex), I have decided to maintain low expectations for Hollister and hope he exceeds them. That's the approach that Tarzan takes with us - and all humans.

PS: Tarzan says we've rarely met his expectations, much less exceeded them, but he's trying to remain optimistic.

View attachment 21064

Tarzan looks pretty cool.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Do any of you really want us in 3 TE sets in passing situations? I don't. I would almost always play Gronk, Hogan, Patterson/Dorsett, and White/Burkhead/Michel. The 11th player would a blocking/outlet TE or FB, or one of the above players.

If you mean obvious passing situations, like 3rd and 12, no.

If you mean passing while in 3-TE sets, WTF not? I think BB's dream goal line package would be 1 WR, 3 GRONK-like TEs who can block or pass, and 1 RB.

 

[mgteich]

There have not been 3 Gronk type TE's in the entire history of the NFL

If you mean obvious passing situations, like 3rd and 12, no.

If you mean passing while in 3-TE sets, WTF not? I think BB's dream goal line package would be 1 WR, 3 GRONK-like TEs who can block or pass, and 1 RB.

 

[Ring 6]

There have not been 3 Gronk type TE's in the entire history of the NFL

But the premise is wrong. We won’t use a 3 TE set to throw but we will use 3 TE. Let’s call Allen TE2A and Hollister TE2B. Allen will be the blocking TE and Hollister the receiving TE.
Last year backup TEs played 585 snaps, out of 1139 which is more than half the snaps.
Devlin played and additional 344.
WRs played a total of 2645 which means WR3,4,5... played 367 snaps all season.
So while we had more Wr depth the TE2 and TE3 played more than WR3,4,5,6.
So there are plenty of snaps available to split them between a blocking specialist and a receiving specialist.
If Hollister gets 1/3 of the backup snaps at TE we had last year he plays as many downs as Burkhead did last year.
37 snaps a game to share among backup TEs is a lot of snaps.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

For the first four games:

I think we use Gronkowski and allen on running plays and Gronkowski and Hollister on pass plays.

Hogan lines up outside for everything. Then we have Dorsett or Patterson and the running back of choice, to try and mix and match.


The problem is, we are so depleted at wide receiver that we can’t open up the whole playbook.

 

[Sciz]

Hollister’s value is going to come as the second tight end against base defenses. A safety deep and a safety on Gronk means a linebacker on Hollister. They just need the run game (including Hollister’s blocking) to be a legitimate threat so teams don’t just automatically go big nickel whenever Hollister is on the field.

 

[Ring 6]

For the first four games:

I think we use Gronkowski and allen on running plays and Gronkowski and Hollister on pass plays.

Hogan lines up outside for everything. Then we have Dorsett or Patterson and the running back of choice, to try and mix and match.


The problem is, we are so depleted at wide receiver that we can’t open up the whole playbook.

We rarely if ever use a 4th WR. We can run the entire playbook without hogan, Dorsett and Patterson.