2025 LT

[PatsFan2]

I'm a bit concerned that Banks and Campbell declined their senior bowl invites. Are they worried about being exposed in one on ones?

Very disturbing their Guard projection is getting realer and realer everyday. OG is Deep in 2025 that's for sure.

 

[AQPE]

Very disturbing their Guard projection is getting realer and realer everyday. OG is Deep in 2025 that's for sure.

What I find disturbing about it is that it is based on speculation about arm length and possibly other physical measurables and not on field performance. That’s particularly egregious regarding two guys with tremendous stats in the SEC.

Just based on their on field stats (snaps, passing play snaps, sacks allowed, hits and hurries allowed), Campbell IMHO is a top 5 prospect and Banks is right there with him (Campbell’s numbers are better than Banks’ but you do have to consider the Jaden Daniel’s factor; also I’ve been looking so far without success for penalty stats). Simmons, Ersery, Milum, and Conerly all have on field numbers that I think merit their consideration for the first round. I’m calling it right now, even before the combine, all 6 will be gone before #38 (Pats current 2nd pick) unless a major injury or character issue arises.

I will say for the umpteenth time that I agree with the philosophy that an OT in the NFL, especially a LT, will have a very difficult time being successful at that position with short arms. I think that is more true as time goes on and the passing game continues to be the focal point of NFL offenses. While it’s not impossible I think taking a guy who doesn’t have long enough arms to play LT at a high level in the NFL will be a big mistake. BUT the same goes for a guy with great physical measurements who hasn’t put up the numbers on the field against top competition.

If Campbell and Banks have the short arms, I hope they aren’t taken by the Pats. Similarly if Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, Tet McMillen, and Will Johnson are deficient in their physical measurements I’d be concerned about taking them at #4, buy frankly less so than I would be about taking a short arms guy and hoping they’ll make it at LT.

Simmons for me is the wild card. He played 5 games at OSU and apparently looked great at LT. Before that he was at RT for San Diego State. Why didn’t he play LT at San Diego? Donovan Jackson subbed in for Simmons and did pretty damn well too, so what does that imply about Simmons? Assuming he is fully recovered and tests well, is that enough of a track record to take him at #4, bypassing some of the other guys I mentioned above at other positions?

At this point my hope is a trade down, netting a 2026 first and 2025 second, plus a player at a need position.

 

[PatsFan2]

What I find disturbing about it is that it is based on speculation about arm length and possibly other physical measurables and not on field performance. That’s particularly egregious regarding two guys with tremendous stats in the SEC.

Just based on their on field stats (snaps, passing play snaps, sacks allowed, hits and hurries allowed), Campbell IMHO is a top 5 prospect and Banks is right there with him (Campbell’s numbers are better than Banks’ but you do have to consider the Jaden Daniel’s factor; also I’ve been looking so far without success for penalty stats). Simmons, Ersery, Milum, and Conerly all have on field numbers that I think merit their consideration for the first round. I’m calling it right now, even before the combine, all 6 will be gone before #38 (Pats current 2nd pick) unless a major injury or character issue arises.

I will say for the umpteenth time that I agree with the philosophy that an OT in the NFL, especially a LT, will have a very difficult time being successful at that position with short arms. I think that is more true as time goes on and the passing game continues to be the focal point of NFL offenses. While it’s not impossible I think taking a guy who doesn’t have long enough arms to play LT at a high level in the NFL will be a big mistake. BUT the same goes for a guy with great physical measurements who hasn’t put up the numbers on the field against top competition.

If Campbell and Banks have the short arms, I hope they aren’t taken by the Pats. Similarly if Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, Tet McMillen, and Will Johnson are deficient in their physical measurements I’d be concerned about taking them at #4, buy frankly less so than I would be about taking a short arms guy and hoping they’ll make it at LT.

Simmons for me is the wild card. He played 5 games at OSU and apparently looked great at LT. Before that he was at RT for San Diego State. Why didn’t he play LT at San Diego? Donovan Jackson subbed in for Simmons and did pretty damn well too, so what does that imply about Simmons? Assuming he is fully recovered and tests well, is that enough of a track record to take him at #4, bypassing some of the other guys I mentioned above at other positions?

At this point my hope is a trade down, netting a 2026 first and 2025 second, plus a player at a need position.

Good post except for the end: we are not Picking First Overall Thanks to JEROD MAYO!! No way in hell we are getting 2026 1st and a Second for #4 in a weak draft. Simmon is intriguing really wondering if he goes in the First coming off that injury. I would target him at 33 or 34 moving that Judon Third with our Second.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I will say for the umpteenth time that I agree with the philosophy that an OT in the NFL, especially a LT, will have a very difficult time being successful at that position with short arms. I think that is more true as time goes on and the passing game continues to be the focal point of NFL offenses. While it’s not impossible I think taking a guy who doesn’t have long enough arms to play LT at a high level in the NFL will be a big mistake. BUT the same goes for a guy with great physical measurements who hasn’t put up the numbers on the field against top competition.

If Campbell and Banks have the short arms, I hope they aren’t taken by the Pats. Similarly if Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, Tet McMillen, and Will Johnson are deficient in their physical measurements I’d be concerned about taking them at #4, buy frankly less so than I would be about taking a short arms guy and hoping they’ll make it at LT.

Senior Bowl isn't the only place where measurements can be taken. As 1st round pick candidates, I'm pretty sure the likes of both Kelvin Banks Jr. and Campbell will be at the NFL Combine and we can put the arm length debate to rest at that time.

 

[bakes781]

Senior Bowl isn't the only place where measurements can be taken. As 1st round pick candidates, I'm pretty sure the likes of both Kelvin Banks Jr. and Campbell will be at the NFL Combine and we can put the arm length debate to rest at that time.

Yeah but those drills they run at practice are no joke.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yeah but those drills they run at practice are no joke.

We can glean information from the drills, correct.

But most top candidates won't participate because the real fear is pre-draft injury.

Those who need help to increase draft stock will participate and hope to rise up the board.

Not knocking the Senior Bowl, just pointing out the practical aspects.

 

[bakes781]

We can glean information from the drills, correct.

But most top candidates won't participate because the real fear is pre-draft injury.

Those who need help to increase draft stock will participate and hope to rise up the board.

Not knocking the Senior Bowl, just pointing out the practical aspects.

I'd agree if we were talking Joe Alt. These guys are not at his level.

 

[manxman2601]

 

[manxman2601]

The LT position is starting to become a bit of a concern draft-wise for me because there are so many teams in need of an OT and we're starting to see a congregation of them ahead our second round pick. Donovan Jackson who has become my 'get value and take him in the 2nd' option shows at 31 in Mike Renner's latest top 50. If you include the possible OT-OG switchers like Membou and Milum, he has 8 OTs going before we pick again at 38. As things stand I see four options:

1. Sign a FA LT
2. Ignore the better value of picking blue chip prospects at 4 and draft an OT preferably with a trade down.
3. Trade up from 38
4. Wait until later in the draft and draft someone you think has enough upside to compete for the LT spot, whether that be Ersery, Charles Grant or John Williams from Cincinnati.

Option 1 is the only solution that has any real appeal for me and it's in no way a guarantee.

 

[bakes781]

Option 1 should be the priority.

Option 2 would only be the way to go if option 1 failed and Carter/Graham are gone.

Option 3 if Simmons/Jackson falls past 25.

Option 4 I would do regardless option 1 but only if 2 & 3 fall thru

 

[PatsFan2]

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We now have Doug Marrone which could be a blessing in disguise as OL Coach. Cam Robinson had this one bad year hope it's not a trend. I think it's going to be tough to get Ronnie Stanley: I am now leaning towards A Jackson - Dan Moore and Jedrick Wills on a prove it. I think we are Drafting Two Tackles regardless Vrabel loves to run the Football: we are not going with crap Linemen.

 

[manxman2601]

Excellent breakdown video on Will Campbell against Texas A&M. It showcases what I don't like about him, his failure to protect against the inside spin move. However what I took from this video was that him taking too deep drops which allows the inside move is coachable.

 

[Headcase]

The LT position is starting to become a bit of a concern draft-wise for me because there are so many teams in need of an OT and we're starting to see a congregation of them ahead our second round pick. Donovan Jackson who has become my 'get value and take him in the 2nd' option shows at 31 in Mike Renner's latest top 50. If you include the possible OT-OG switchers like Membou and Milum, he has 8 OTs going before we pick again at 38. As things stand I see four options:

1. Sign a FA LT
2. Ignore the better value of picking blue chip prospects at 4 and draft an OT preferably with a trade down.
3. Trade up from 38
4. Wait until later in the draft and draft someone you think has enough upside to compete for the LT spot, whether that be Ersery, Charles Grant or John Williams from Cincinnati.

Option 1 is the only solution that has any real appeal for me and it's in no way a guarantee.

1) Need to get an NFL average guy in FA, he doesn't need to be a homerun fix for a decade, but a couple years of average play.
2) If picking at 4 DO NOT REACH, you have a chance to get one of the few blue chips, get them.
3) Sure.
4) No half measures at LT, take someone that has played the position, not someone who you think can play the position. The further into the draft you go, the less likely you are to fix the position....people like to state the 1st round stats for QBs.....it is very similar for LTs, a huge percentage of starting LTs in the league are drafted in the 1st.

 

[manxman2601]

1) Need to get an NFL average guy in FA, he doesn't need to be a homerun fix for a decade, but a couple years of average play.

4) No half measures at LT, take someone that has played the position, not someone who you think can play the position. The further into the draft you go, the less likely you are to fix the position....people like to state the 1st round stats for QBs.....it is very similar for LTs, a huge percentage of starting LTs in the league are drafted in the 1st.

If you're signing an average guy in FA for a couple of years then that's just pushing the problem down the road so why not draft someone with upside as well that stands a chance of replacing that FA in time. It might not work but you might get a swing tackle, right tackle or guard out of it and the best outcome is that you don't need to draft a LT next year or the year after.

 

[Headcase]

If you're signing an average guy in FA for a couple of years then that's just pushing the problem down the road so why not draft someone with upside as well that stands a chance of replacing that FA in time. It might not work but you might get a swing tackle, right tackle or guard out of it and the best outcome is that you don't need to draft a LT next year or the year after.

To me the FA, as a whole, should be about raising the floor of the team, the draft should be about getting BPA to raise the ceiling.

With a team this bad I don't really want to spend premium picks on "upside" guys, I want to spend day 1/2 picks on guys that have a chance to help the team immediately and I don't really care where.

Ersery right now is a top of the second guy, so I don't see him as a half measure guy, he is a trade up guy....Charles Grant and John Williams are currently 3rd/4th guys from what I'm seeing, if you wan to take a developmental guy there it is more acceptable.

I guess when I was saying "no half measures" at LT, I mean you have to take multiple swings to fix the positions, don't take a guy in the 3rd/4th and plan for him to start; don't take a RT and say he is going to switch sides. Pay one in FA, draft one, and let the best guy play.

 

[PatsFan2]

To me the FA, as a whole, should be about raising the floor of the team, the draft should be about getting BPA to raise the ceiling.

With a team this bad I don't really want to spend premium picks on "upside" guys, I want to spend day 1/2 picks on guys that have a chance to help the team immediately and I don't really care where.

Ersery right now is a top of the second guy, so I don't see him as a half measure guy, he is a trade up guy....Charles Grant and John Williams are currently 3rd/4th guys from what I'm seeing, if you wan to take a developmental guy there it is more acceptable.

I guess when I was saying "no half measures" at LT, I mean you have to take multiple swings to fix the positions, don't take a guy in the 3rd/4th and plan for him to start; don't take a RT and say he is going to switch sides. Pay one in FA, draft one, and let the best guy play.

You're not such a headcase afterall...I would Draft Two guys. I want nothing to do with Lowe and Jacobs in 25. Yeah and I like A Ersery.

 

[manxman2601]

To me the FA, as a whole, should be about raising the floor of the team, the draft should be about getting BPA to raise the ceiling.

With a team this bad I don't really want to spend premium picks on "upside" guys, I want to spend day 1/2 picks on guys that have a chance to help the team immediately and I don't really care where.

Ersery right now is a top of the second guy, so I don't see him as a half measure guy, he is a trade up guy....Charles Grant and John Williams are currently 3rd/4th guys from what I'm seeing, if you wan to take a developmental guy there it is more acceptable.

I guess when I was saying "no half measures" at LT, I mean you have to take multiple swings to fix the positions, don't take a guy in the 3rd/4th and plan for him to start; don't take a RT and say he is going to switch sides. Pay one in FA, draft one, and let the best guy play.

I 100% agree with this. Charles Grant was someone I was thinking about in particular. Has pretty good upside but isn't ready to start day one but his length and athleticism could result in a quality starter by year 3.

 

[AQPE]

Excellent breakdown video on Will Campbell against Texas A&M. It showcases what I don't like about him, his failure to protect against the inside spin move. However what I took from this video was that him taking too deep drops which allows the inside move is coachable.

I see a dozen reps here, maybe 14, no sacks maybe one pressure and one hurry, a couple of stumbles on running plays, no penalties. Not Joe Alt but pretty good, better than what I saw last year from Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu, Fautanu, Mims, or Guyton on their tape against guys of the caliber of Shamar and Scourton.

Like him a lot but not at #4. They stay in that spot they need a game wrecker. Trade down and pick up a 2nd or a 2026 1st, if he’s still there and they took him I’d be pretty happy.

 

[manxman2601]

I see a dozen reps here, maybe 14, no sacks maybe one pressure and one hurry, a couple of stumbles on running plays, no penalties. Not Joe Alt but pretty good, better than what I saw last year from Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu, Fautanu, Mims, or Guyton on their tape against guys of the caliber of Shamar and Scourton.

Like him a lot but not at #4. They stay in that spot they need a game wrecker. Trade down and pick up a 2nd or a 2026 1st, if he’s still there and they took him I’d be pretty happy.

I like him but don't think he's elite. He needs to work on his run blocking (it's there as was shown on one particular play) and he needs to not give up the inside so easily but as I said that's coachable. He is an excellent blocker in space. I agree with you on your valuation. I think he could be a good LT for 10 years but he won't be one of the best in the league, which as you say, is not worth no 4.

 

[captain stone]

The LT position is starting to become a bit of a concern draft-wise for me because there are so many teams in need of an OT and we're starting to see a congregation of them ahead our second round pick. Donovan Jackson who has become my 'get value and take him in the 2nd' option shows at 31 in Mike Renner's latest top 50. If you include the possible OT-OG switchers like Membou and Milum, he has 8 OTs going before we pick again at 38. As things stand I see four options:

1. Sign a FA LT
2. Ignore the better value of picking blue chip prospects at 4 and draft an OT preferably with a trade down.
3. Trade up from 38
4. Wait until later in the draft and draft someone you think has enough upside to compete for the LT spot, whether that be Ersery, Charles Grant or John Williams from Cincinnati.

Option 1 is the only solution that has any real appeal for me and it's in no way a guarantee.

1. AND 2.