PostGame Thread 2023 Week 4: Patriots Lose to the Cowboys 38-3 - PostGame Thread

[Boomer B]

He runs out of the pocket too quick and right into pressure. You has to know there are defenders behind him and he was out there taking all day to throw when he fumbled. He had clean pockets he refused to step up into. He didn't just start doing this yesterday either. He did this against Miami, he did this all last year. This is who he is.

I’m not trying to defend Mac, he sucked yesterday. I’m just saying it’s the whole O. Mac has no easy throws. Our guys get 0 separation and everything is contested. On top of it our line had been bad all year, so combine no easy throws with pressure and a QB with a mediocre arm who is pressing and you get the ****show that was yesterday.

Bill put this team together, the ****show is on him.

 

[captain stone]

bill the Coach is under .500 without Brady. Andy Reid is over .500 sans Mahomes, Shula is over .500 without Marino, Mike Holmgren is over .500 without Favre....

Yep... I've stated this formula before, but it bears repeating again here:

Bill Belichick minus Tom Brady = **** Lebeau (without being a HOF-caliber player, that is)

 

[h0c2000]

We continue to underestimate on this board exactly how bad Mac Jones is. A middling QB instantly improves this team into a playoff contender.

What do I mean by that? I would certainly take Baker Mayfield over Mac.

I've already called Mac a poor man's Chad Pennington last week. That didn't go over well. I also said we needed a veteran brought in and have a true QB competition right after the season ended. You won't get argument from me.

 

[captain stone]

I just can’t watch that team this year. The let down was just ****ty. I’ve reinforced that the best team hardly wins the Stanley Cup and I’m not watching one game this year unless they are in the finals.

I'll watch a replay of their Cup-clinching win AFTER it's already happened... And that's it. NOT EVEN ONE ****ING NANO-SECOND otherwise.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Only 13 more games with Mac at QB. Better start getting used to it. There is not another option at this point. Hopefully the line gels a bit and the run game can get some traction. At least those Jon Stephens teams with crappy QB's were entertaining since he could run the ball. I think that might be the ceiling this season.

We now have 2 players on D who blew out there biceps??!! Time to replace the training staff again?? Ugh

 

[sambam94]

Mac's noodle arm combined with WRs that can't get separation = disaster. Watching other games throughout the league and WRs are regularly running free. That never seems to happen for Pats WRs. Throw in a weak OL and the obvious result is a bad offense. If an average fan can see this, what the heck is Belichick doing?

 

[upstater1]

I’m not trying to defend Mac, he sucked yesterday. I’m just saying it’s the whole O. Mac has no easy throws. Our guys get 0 separation and everything is contested. On top of it our line had been bad all year, so combine no easy throws with pressure and a QB with a mediocre arm who is pressing and you get the ****show that was yesterday.

Bill put this team together, the ****show is on him.

I've disagreed with this many times.

I think Mac is uniquely bad. He makes the OL look much much worse than it is. When QBs can't command the pocket, they don't give their OL a consistent place to route rushers toward. He can't step up into the pocket because he's afraid. This means our tackles are never able to route edge rushers past the pocket. He is likelier to get skittish and start backpedaling, or abandon the pocket altogether.

We have spent an enormous amount of resources on OL here in the last several years. With even a mediocre QB, it would not surprise me if people talk about how great our line is in one year's time. Onwenu, Mafi, Strange, Sow, the Andrews' and maybe even Lowe who has been better than McDermott, Anderson and all the rest of the last 2 years combined.

 

[upstater1]

To be fair, Bill had Testeverde, Kosar and Bledsoe for most of his non brady career. All number 1 overall picks. I'm not sure anyone else in history has coached 3 quarterbacks that were all overall 1st picks.

You forgot Cam Newton. He was #1 overall. Bill has been so lucky.

 

[Bruins29]

We now have 2 players on D who blew out there biceps??!! Time to replace the training staff again?? Ugh

Absoutely. Totally 100% the "training staff's" fault

 

[upstater1]

Only 13 more games with Mac at QB. Better start getting used to it. There is not another option at this point. Hopefully the line gels a bit and the run game can get some traction. At least those Jon Stephens teams with crappy QB's were entertaining since he could run the ball. I think that might be the ceiling this season.

We now have 2 players on D who blew out there biceps??!! Time to replace the training staff again?? Ugh

Who is the other?

 

[captain stone]

Mac is a piece of the problem.

Kraft needs a new GM, BB will probably walk out, but there aren’t many teams out there that have their coaches do GM work and to be honest that’s a good idea.

The team has lots of money, it needs to go out there and spend it and put a solid team. Going to the value store isn’t going to fix this team issue.
Top to bottom things have to change.
You have to be willing to take risks and get the top player in the draft.

It’s sad to see, but the BB era in NE is coming to an end.

Yep.

Bill must relinquish his GM duties to Eliot Wolf by no later than Black Monday, or be Fired from All of his duties if he refuses, Shula or no Shula.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

You never know with TB12 you always had a shot
He was that good

Brady was already mentally checked out of NE in 2019 and didn't like many of the players he had around him on offense, throwing some of the younger guys under the bus and not really working to try to develop younger receivers he had given up on. 2020-2022 would have been more of the same and only would have made Brady look worse.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Brady took a team to the AFCCG with Caldwell and a 35 year old Troy Brown as his two top receivers in 2006.

Brady would march an offense up and down the field with Hunter, Geisicki, and Douglas in the slot.

That was then. By 2019 he was done with a no-big-play offense and BB's coaching.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[FCB02062]

Bill the Coach doesn't care about offense, he can't draft offense, he can't evaluate offense. How do I know this? In nine full seasons without Brady (91-95 Cleveland, 2000 Pats, and 20-22 Pats) Bill the Coach has had an offense rank in the top 10 in points per game only ONCE (#6 in Mac Jones' rookie season). He had five seasons in Cleveland and had had four seasons with the Pats. Bill the Coach's offensive rankings are downright putrid without the quarterback that **** Rehbein found:

91 - 16/28 teams (18.6 ppg)
92 - 20, 17.2
93 - 15, 19.0
94 - 11, 21.3
95 - 25, 18.1
00 - 25/31, 17.3
20 - 27/32, 20.4
21 - 6/32, 27.2
22 - 17, 20.4

and this season Bill the Coach ranks 31/32 at 13.8 ppg

So the average offensive team for Bill the Coach ranks 18th in the league in offense. Is this what people want moving forward in a league that caters to offense?

 

[Triumph]

I don’t think I can stomach more of the Mac I saw today. That was putrid. Not much hope he turns it around either. He didn’t exactly have a fire lit under his butt last year when Zappe was playing well. Suppose it’s possible, but I’m not optimistic. He turned back into a pumpkin.

What is so puzzling is how BB could draft Jones with obvious arm issues?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

you mean highlight..

 

[VrabelJr]

The OL needs to play better but dealing with pressure is the job of an NFL QB. Pressure will be there on 10-20% of your passing attempts. It's not acceptable to take sacks, throw picks, and fumble on those 3-6 drop backs per game, especially when you're not making up for it on the times you do have a clean pocket. I support Mac but his feel for the game needs to improve. Going back to the basics might hurt his ego but he really needs to be managed like a year 1 QB at this point.

 

[Brotherblues]

What is so puzzling is how BB could draft Jones with obvious arm issues?

The arm issue is not really that much of an issue. It can get the job done.

The real problem is how he handles pressure in all aspects. He just... breaks.

Pressure from the D during a play? He breaks.

Pressure to make a big play? He breaks.

Pressure to be on the same page with a coach he doesn't agree with? He breaks.

Pressure after making a bad play? He slams his head into a defender 20 seconds after the play is over, tries to twist some guy's ankle, punches someone's junk. Breaks.

Dude just breaks mentally over and over. We could never really see how he handled frustration in Alabama--- they just overpowered every defense they faced. We've gotten a good sample size of how he handles it now and it's not good.

 

[upstater1]

With 4 rushers blown by you (which the Cowboys repeatedly did because Mac set so deep and tried to spin out), you have one rusher in front of you and you have Onwenu with a hat on him. So what do you do? You run past Onwenu's block and then panic. Instead of stepping up into the pocket and setting your feet to look for a throw, which buys you another second or two, you disregard the blockers and step right into the oncoming rusher's path.

I knew we'd have a tremendous downgrade in this part of the game from the guy who was the greatest of all time at commanding the pocket, but we ended up with someone who is one of the worst at it in the entire league. Zappe does not have the physical capabilities to play in this league but you actually see him step up into the pocket and reset his feet to look for a throw (which he can't make).

There were 5 pass rushers coming at Mac in this play, 5 Patriots OL, everyone else was out, including Rham and the one LB on Rham. That means we had 3 WRs out there and 1 TE. So 4 pass catchers against 4 DBs and 1 LB.

Mac should be able to find someone open with an extra second or two here.