2021 Dolphins vs Patriots pre game thread

[PScottman]

My ONLY worry is that we need to contain Waddle. But then, Belichick understand that too.

Between Parker and Waddle (with Fuller off the board - and now their OL taking COVID losses) I'm guessing that the Patriots staff will take a "wait and see" approach in the first series or two. Do they need to "rotate" the double teams or the matchups with those two WRs? More zone? Can the DL make Waddle irrelevant with the rush?

The more pressing concern for me is the "contain rush" approach for QBs like Tua. That plus a weaker CB crew with Gilmore out dilutes the DL advantage vs the Miami OL that the Patriots SHOULD have on paper, but again I think that the patient approach will be applied and adjustments made as the game progresses.

 

[zydecochris]

I watched a video on YouTube showing every pass Tua made this preseason. Personally i didn't see a great deal of improvement. I think he has improved a bit but it is a very small amount. He is still making the same mistakes he did as a rookie almost as often and his accuracy is barely better. Frankly it isn't the 2 year jump you want. I wasn't high on Tua last seadon amd i don't see it changing much. He was a weak link that Tebow'd his way to a 6-3 record. He had 1 good game last year and the rest were unimpressive at best.

I unless Mac massively craps the bed i don't see Miami getting the massive QB edge they desperately need to pull off a win.

Interesting. I've read bunches of articles about how much better Tua looks this year and how he has taken the leap, etc., but of course most training camp reports speak glowingly of the progress of the players. I watched him in college and before his injuries he was really something to watch, it wasn't just the Alabama system, he was an amazing college QB.

Given all of the obstacles he had last year (coming off a hip injury that has been career-ending for most players, off season limited to "Zoom" sessions because of Covid, terrible OL, rookie coach), I expected a big jump for him this year. But, not only have I not watched all of his preseason passes, I haven't even watched one, so your analysis is informative and interesting.

IMHO Miami could be very dangerous if i) their OL makes a giant leap; and ii) if Tua makes a giant leap. But, those are two very big "ifs". So far I think the jury is out with the OL part for sure, especially if Jackson misses the upcoming game.

As far as Tua, one of the things that made him so electric as a college QB was his fearlessness and his ability to make something out of nothing with his feet, sometimes with runs but more often scrambling to buy time followed by an accurate throw on the run. However, in his case at least all of that scrambling led to a number of significant injuries. Maybe after all of those injuries he either has lost something or he is being coached to avoid injury by avoiding all of the running and scrambling plays.

 

[zydecochris]

With MIA losing an LT and TE, I think that we should be an 8 point favorite.

My ONLY worry is that we need to contain Waddle. But then, Belichick understand that too.

Mgteich, the TE Sheheen is presumably definitely lost but I thought he was 4th string or something (and evidently an idiot), so no biggie for the game.

The loss of LT Jackson is completely different, that would be a huge loss for Miami and giant advantage for the Pats. But if Jackson has had the "V" word (not wanting to derail the thread, I'm talking NFL protocols, not the "V" word), isn't he able to return pretty quickly if he remains symptom free and tests negative twice in 24 hours according to NFL protocols?

I try not to celebrate the loss of opposing players due to injury, but if Miami loses Jackson because of NFL rules for the Pats game I'm afraid I may have to do a little dance

 

[mike_usagisan]

Weird post. Why is everyone assuming Mac Jones will suck this game? Yes, he is a rookie QB, and rookie QBs tend to be shaky early. I can understand that argument. But this seems to be something altogher different. Almost as if there is some disdain. Like he is some scrub off the scrap heap out of no where instead of one of the most statistically successful college QBs of all time who has cut it up well in the preseason and in joint practices.

Part of it I think is they resent the prospect in general. Again, it comes down to the lack of eye popping athletic traits, therefore he must be some bum. Part of it is probably also because he was generally the lowest rated prospect by most of the 'top tier' QBs in the draft. And they adopted that position and so now must stand by it and assume he will suck, regardless of the evidence that he may well be one of the better first round QBs taken this year.

The reaction is very odd.

It’s like a lot of Pats fans were disappointed when we got Mac rather than any of the four QBs who went ahead of him. They assume he’s not very good and his success is solely due to his receivers. Mac needs to prove his doubters wrong and he’ll have plenty of opportunities as I think there’s a lot of disdain for him.

 

[ashley]

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think we'll get to see a lot of work for this backfield. Not to say Mac gets confined to short passes, but I see this team winning on the ground and short game primarily, with Mac growing into the bigger throws. But put it this way: he's an upgrade in the TD pass category if he throws an average of 1 TD per game. I don't think he makes a huge impact by being great this year, but being competent would be a huge improvement.

I'm really wondering whether the running game will be the beast it looks like on paper.

 

[ashley]

Some more of Perry....

 

[scott99]

I think we'll get to see a lot of work for this backfield. Not to say Mac gets confined to short passes, but I see this team winning on the ground and short game primarily, with Mac growing into the bigger throws. But put it this way: he's an upgrade in the TD pass category if he throws an average of 1 TD per game. I don't think he makes a huge impact by being great this year, but being competent would be a huge improvement.

I'm really wondering whether the running game will be the beast it looks like on paper.

Only injuries can derail this running game. I can see Harris get 800+ and Stevenson get around 500+, Taylor probably around 300+. Bolden and White a combined 300 yards. Run to the right behind Brown.

 

[scott99]

Some more of Perry....

I think he’s more quick than fast. You watch some of his college highlights, and he was tough to tackle, very quick.

 

[venecol]

Weird post. Why is everyone assuming Mac Jones will suck this game? Yes, he is a rookie QB, and rookie QBs tend to be shaky early. I can understand that argument. But this seems to be something altogher different. Almost as if there is some disdain. Like he is some scrub off the scrap heap out of no where instead of one of the most statistically successful college QBs of all time who has cut it up well in the preseason and in joint practices.

Part of it I think is they resent the prospect in general. Again, it comes down to the lack of eye popping athletic traits, therefore he must be some bum. Part of it is probably also because he was generally the lowest rated prospect by most of the 'top tier' QBs in the draft. And they adopted that position and so now must stand by it and assume he will suck, regardless of the evidence that he may well be one of the better first round QBs taken this year.

The reaction is very odd.

Who GAF what they think? The real answer comes on Sunday. The rest is just speculation, both here and there.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[amfootball]

We won 7 games last year with a lot less talent...Hightower has looked great, our tight ends are so much better, our wideouts are better than last year, Mac is better than Cam and we have Folk waiting in the wings in case the rookie has some issues...We have Uche who looks like a stud, Judon who looks amazing...don't forget Damien Harris and R.Stevenson running behind this line, I think we're in for an improvement.

The discussion wasn't about are we improved. Of course we are. The discussion was about us being ranked at 13 which I thought was high for the reasons I previously stated.

 

[venecol]

Flores shouldn't be underestimated. He grew up in Patriots system and was masterful during SB LIII. He's a good coach and seems to get along well with his players.

 

[50-yard-line]

13 seems ridiculously high given all the question marks/unknowns we have.

Ridiculous? No. Generous? Maybe.

Forget that it looks like they had a crazy good draft and just go by the proven middle-class adds
Look at the new vets starting compared to the players they replaced.

Obvious examples:
Hightower > Hall
Judon > Simon
Van Noy > Copeland

Henry > LaCosse
Smith > Keane
Bourne > Harry
Agholor > Byrd

The team is also thick with 2nd and 3rd year players like Uche, Onwenu, Dugger, even Asiasi, who have given us no reason to think that aren't progressing well. Also, the trickle-down effect should help players like Meyers and Asiasi and particularly Bentley, who looks great now that it's not all on his shoulders.

The point is, the only loss to the roster of any consequence would be Thuney, and is there any reason to believe that this OL won't be as good or deep as last year?

The "?" is simply at QB and how it all comes together, and that's a valid question.

Maybe putting any team with a rookie QB in the top 16 is a bit generous, but there's no question that this year's roster is far, far above last year's roster.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Flores shouldn't be underestimated. He grew up in Patriots system and was masterful during SB LIII. He's a good coach and seems to get along well with his players.

View attachment 35385

If their was anyone who benefited from Bill bouncing around coaches it was Flores. He had his hand in so many things. One of my all-time fav Pats, coaches & players. I don't "root" for the fins obviously but happy when he finds success. He deserves it. And no doubt has all NEP games circled.

He's been the biggest hit out of Bill's coaching tree.

 

[zydecochris]

If their was anyone who benefited from Bill bouncing around coaches it was Flores. He had his hand in so many things. One of my all-time fav Pats, coaches & players. I don't "root" for the fins obviously but happy when he finds success. He deserves it. And no doubt has all NEP games circled.

He's been the biggest hit out of Bill's coaching tree.

Yeah, darn it, Flores seems distressingly competent so far.

Plus, it is unbelievable how many first round picks the Fins got from that Tunsil trade (which seems to be the trade that keeps on giving), one can only hope most of them don't pan out or the Fins could be trouble at some point in the future.

 

[amfootball]

Ridiculous? No. Generous? Maybe.

Forget that it looks like they had a crazy good draft and just go by the proven middle-class adds
Look at the new vets starting compared to the players they replaced.

Obvious examples:
Hightower > Hall
Judon > Simon
Van Noy > Copeland

Henry > LaCosse
Smith > Keane
Bourne > Harry
Agholor > Byrd

The team is also thick with 2nd and 3rd year players like Uche, Onwenu, Dugger, even Asiasi, who have given us no reason to think that aren't progressing well. Also, the trickle-down effect should help players like Meyers and Asiasi and particularly Bentley, who looks great now that it's not all on his shoulders.

The point is, the only loss to the roster of any consequence would be Thuney, and is there any reason to believe that this OL won't be as good or deep as last year?

The "?" is simply at QB and how it all comes together, and that's a valid question.

Maybe putting any team with a rookie QB in the top 16 is a bit generous, but there's no question that this year's roster is far, far above last year's roster.

I think it's just semantics but if you want to say generous that's fine. I agree that obviously much hinges on Mac's proficiency and development.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So is Mac Jones even the better Alabama QB?? Didn't Tua beat him out for the starting job back in the day?? Phins should be big favorites in the game. Phins by at least a TD. Jones plays well but an NFL caliber defense is too much for the rookie in his first start.

Also can the Pats secondary handle any set of wide receivers without Gilmore? They have been competing against the Pats pi$$ poor roster all summer. Now they need to go against real NFL talent. This is a bad matchup.

I remember when we were playing against Brian Griese-led Dolphins in the 2001 season I believe, though it might have been later.... hearing an announcer say "I don't know if Brian Griese's even the best Michigan quarterback out there."

 

[amfootball]

I remember when we were playing against Brian Griese-led Dolphins in the 2001 season I believe, though it might have been later.... hearing an announcer say "I don't know if Brian Griese's even the best Michigan quarterback out there."

Lol. That's an awesome reference. I will take Mac over Tua all day.

 

[venecol]

Are we having the PICKS contest this season or Alamos wkly scores thing?