2018 Free Agency -- Part 2

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Reid on a 3 year, 9 million, with 3GTD could, and would, probably be the biggest steal in a long long time.

 

[long distance]

 

[Deus Irae]

Post-draft cuts have begun

Jalen Strong
Terrell McClain
J.J. Wilcox
Joe Callahan
Brad Nortman

 

[mgteich]

Seriously, why would Reid "have almost no reps"? With D-Mac, Chung, Harmon and Reid (instead of Richards), why wouldn't the 2900+ D-snaps played by safeties simply be more or less evenly distributed among the four (instead of 1000, 1000, 7oo and 300)?

We have one of the very best sets of safeties in the NFL. They play very, very well together. I would not disturb that for a free agent signing.

Why should the 4th safety get any defensive reps? We have good corners and a fine nickel back. I'm fine with Harmon getting lots of reps, but in the past sometimes even the #3 safety didn't get many reps (absent injuries). After all, a corner can be at the dime back.

Apparently everyone is sold with the idea that the safety corp needs to be responsible for the nickel back, the dime back and for substituting for poor LB play and schemes.

4-2-5 is our defensive set. Hightower and Van Noy are the linebackers with Flowers playing some. If that's not good enough, then trade for a LB to replace Van Noy and Flowers on passing downs.

 

[Deus Irae]

We have one of the very best sets of safeties in the NFL. They play very, very well together. I would not disturb that for a free agent signing.

Why should the 4th safety get any defensive reps? We have good corners and a fine nickel back. I'm fine with Harmon getting lots of reps, but in the past sometimes even the #3 safety didn't get many reps (absent injuries). After all, a corner can be at the dime back.

Apparently everyone is sold with the idea that the safety corp needs to be responsible for the nickel back, the dime back and for substituting for poor LB play and schemes.

4-2-5 is our defensive set. Hightower and Van Noy are the linebackers with Flowers playing some. If that's not good enough, then trade for a LB to replace Van Noy and Flowers on passing downs.

The numbers are misleading because Chung has essentially become a combination in the box safety and coverage LB. The safety position wouldn't need that 4th safety to get playing time if the team had LBs and slot CBs that could cover.

But, until such LBs and/or CBs are found, the team will continue to need 4 legitimate safeties to pick up the slack.

 

[Ring 6]

We have one of the very best sets of safeties in the NFL. They play very, very well together. I would not disturb that for a free agent signing.

Why should the 4th safety get any defensive reps? We have good corners and a fine nickel back. I'm fine with Harmon getting lots of reps, but in the past sometimes even the #3 safety didn't get many reps (absent injuries). After all, a corner can be at the dime back.

Apparently everyone is sold with the idea that the safety corp needs to be responsible for the nickel back, the dime back and for substituting for poor LB play and schemes.

4-2-5 is our defensive set. Hightower and Van Noy are the linebackers with Flowers playing some. If that's not good enough, then trade for a LB to replace Van Noy and Flowers on passing downs.

I think you will see fewer reps overall for safeties this year than recently. I’m happy with that.

 

[maineman209]

We have one of the very best sets of safeties in the NFL. They play very, very well together. I would not disturb that for a free agent signing.

Why should the 4th safety get any defensive reps? We have good corners and a fine nickel back. I'm fine with Harmon getting lots of reps, but in the past sometimes even the #3 safety didn't get many reps (absent injuries). After all, a corner can be at the dime back.

Apparently everyone is sold with the idea that the safety corp needs to be responsible for the nickel back, the dime back and for substituting for poor LB play and schemes.

4-2-5 is our defensive set. Hightower and Van Noy are the linebackers with Flowers playing some. If that's not good enough, then trade for a LB to replace Van Noy and Flowers on passing downs.

The past two seasons, the 3-safety nickel has been the dominant one (even in 2016 with Logan Ryan covering the slot as well as he did).

Two of those three safeties are turning 31 in Camp and both have a lot of mileage on their tires - 150-200 ST snaps per season apiece, in addition to +/- 1000 D-snaps per season (Chung played over 1200 snaps in 2016). Working a 4th competent veteran safety into the rotation provides them with some "relief snaps" an may help keep them both fresher through the post-season.

Furthermore as the roster stands, if one of Chung, Harmon or D-Mac is injured and out for an extended period, the Pats would be down to David Jones/Damarius Travis (who we don't know yet can actually play), or Richards (who clearly can't), if they need the 3-safety package for a specific matchup, and the "Big Dime" (4-safeties) is off the table. "A corner", drawn from the NFL-experienced CBs currently on the roster, definitely doesn't provide the same matchup options in the nickel, much less in the dime.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "poor LB play". As I noted, the 3-safety nickel was the dominant package even in 2016, when LB play was fine. BB even spoke of this as a goal back in 2010. It's part of the scheme that's been developed in reaction to what offenses are doing, not in reaction to what LBs are NOT doing.

 

[long distance]

There are currently 91 players listed on NE roster. Most rookies haven't signed the contracts yet so that's ok. A quick look at the structure could hint some possible early FA targets..

Preseason/TC 90 roster breakdown by positions

2017:
O: 3QB - 7RB - 2FB - 6TE - 10WR - 16OL (8OT) =44
D: 8DT - 7DE - 9LB - 9CB - 7S = 40
ST: 6 (WR Slater, S Ebner, LB King)

current:
O: 3QB - 7RB - 1FB - 7TE - 11WR - 16OL (8OT) =45
D: 7DT - 8DE - 8LB - 10CB - 7S = 40
ST: 6 (WR Slater, S Ebner, LB King)

Names will change but the roster structure seams pretty much set. Some positions/players are interchangeable due to versatility/usage (OL,DL,LB,DB)

The are 1 more WR and CB currently on board and one less LB compared to 2017.
Id guess another LB (Casillas) could be among first additional vet signings - possibly after May 8 deadline.

 

[Ring 6]

The past two seasons, the 3-safety nickel has been the dominant one (even in 2016 with Logan Ryan covering the slot as well as he did).

Two of those three safeties are turning 31 in Camp and both have a lot of mileage on their tires - 150-200 ST snaps per season apiece, in addition to +/- 1000 D-snaps per season (Chung played over 1200 snaps in 2016). Working a 4th competent veteran safety into the rotation provides them with some "relief snaps" an may help keep them both fresher through the post-season.

Furthermore as the roster stands, if one of Chung, Harmon or D-Mac is injured and out for an extended period, the Pats would be down to David Jones/Damarius Travis (who we don't know yet can actually play), or Richards (who clearly can't), if they need the 3-safety package for a specific matchup, and the "Big Dime" (4-safeties) is off the table. "A corner", drawn from the NFL-experienced CBs currently on the roster, definitely doesn't provide the same matchup options in the nickel, much less in the dime.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "poor LB play". As I noted, the 3-safety nickel was the dominant package even in 2016, when LB play was fine. BB even spoke of this as a goal back in 2010. It's part of the scheme that's been developed in reaction to what offenses are doing, not in reaction to what LBs are NOT doing.

The big dime needs to be off the table, push across the floor, kicked, stomped on, sworn at, pisssed on and flushed down the toilet where hopefully there is an alligator in the sewer to chomp it to shreds.

 

[50-yard-line]

I don’t know if we are adding a safety. I think we are moving away from a lot of big nickel toward more 3 corner nickel and I severely hope we scrapped the 4 safety defense.
With that we need 3 plus a youngster who can play st and we have youngsters to compete for that role. We could add more like that.

It's interesting to me that Dawson has played safety - for just this reason.

 

[Ring 6]

It's interesting to me that Dawson has played safety - for just this reason.

But he is a corner not a safety. However he has some safety skills. Actually if he develops as expected he will be the primary nickel on all downs I think.

 

[mgteich]

But he is a corner not a safety. However he has some safety skills. Actually if he develops as expected he will be the primary nickel on all downs I think.

except for those downs where we have 3 LB's on the field

 

[mgteich]

Let's consider how many defensive backs are on the field.

FIVE
This is our primary formation.
We drafted a rating nickel back. And yes, I understand that J Jones provide competition (and backup) for the spot. The LB's are Hightower and Van Noy.

Yes, we can have the big nickel instead, with a 3rd safety instead f the nickel back. As with 4 CB set, this should will depend on game plan and situation.

In either of these, one of the safeties can cheat up close to the LOS, leaving one deep safety (still with 2 or 3 on the field).

Many times last year, we didn't have 3 healthy CB's including a nickel that could be trusted in that role, so the 3d safety was used much more than is the case when the nice back is there.

FOUR
This is in very likely run situations. A 3rd run-stuffing LB replaces the nickel. That LB is Roberts or whoever moves ahead of him in that role. In one season this role was taken by a rotation of PS players. Roberts is NOT terrible as this LB, although I am 100% fine with Belichick drafting competition.


SIX
This happens in pure passing situations, and in garbage time. Traditionally, the 6th back (the dime) was a corner. Sometimes, in certain situations, a safety was the 6th.

2 LB's are still on the field. last year, the LB's were so depleted (how depleted were they?) that a safety essentially played linebacker.

I agree with AJ. Let's end this option forever. Let's have enough healthy and competent LB's. Let's have 5 healthy and competent corners. let's have a better pass rush. There is no reason to have 4 safeties on the field, or even 3 if one of the safeties is injured.

SEVEN OR EIGHT
On desperation plays, we use all the defensive backs that are healthy.
==========
1) We've improved the front 6.
2) We will secure an additional LB. However, given our current DL, our current CB's, our current 3 safeties Hightower, Van Noy and Flowers should be adequate.
3) To repeat, if one of the safeties is injured, I'm 100% fine with playing the other two., and not having 3 safeties on the field. I don't see that 3 safeties is ever necessary.
Of course, if our #3 safety is good enough, he occasionally will be on the field in place of the nickel CB, or in place of the dime CB.
===========
aj, feel free to correct errors in my understanding.

 

[long distance]

 

[maineman209]

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Gotta believe Derrick Johnson is on Bills radar...he may be 35, but he still has something left to offer in a part time role. He just seems like a BB guy.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

As a member of the social teams unit, Reid would be in charge of the MyFace account.

He certainly wouldn't be in charge of the pledge of allegiance.

 

[IllegalContact]

reid is as good or better than anyone we currently have......he would greatly upgrade the unit

 

[luuked]

He certainly wouldn't be in charge of the pledge of allegiance.

Who cares ?

 

[Deus Irae]

Who cares ?

A huge chunk of the country, obviously.