2 DL's in the first 33

[cstjohn17]

Presumably, Light and Mankins.

If that is this case then sign me up, one of them is disgruntled, the other is a free agent.

If Light and Mankins are signed then look out Aunt Sallie, this team is going to be stacked!

 

[mgteich]

ONE EXAMPLE - Watt/Jordan at 17 and Heyward at 33.
Let's say we traded our 28 and 92 to ARIZ for 38 and 69.
(they want a QB and 28 could be a fine spot, better than 38!)
===================
OUR RESOURCES
38
60
69
74
125
160
=======================
A) We would expect to draft a starting OG at 38. Ojialana, Watkins, Pouncey and Boling won't all be gone. If there is a run, we would need to move up to get our OG.

B) We would have plenty of resources with 60, 69 and 74 to get an additional starting quality OL. If necessary, we could trade up into the 30's or 40's. For example, we could use 60 and 74 to move back to 39.

We would then have 38, 39, and 69. We could use all three of these for OL's if Belichick didn't see an OLB he wanted. For example, we might end up with Ijalana, Boling and Carpenter.
=================================
A NOTE ON OT's
Almost all of us are presuming that Light or Vollmer will be playing LT. Also, many of us beleive that Belichick might be willing to sign a free agent RT if Light doesn't come back AND Kaczur is considered unworthy to start at RT.
=============================
BOTTOM LINE
I would be fine with going into the 4th having drafted
WATT or JORDAN or WILKERSON
HEYWARD
IJALANA
BOLING OR WATKINS
CARPENTER

Obviously, Belichick mught choose to add only two OL's early and add a developmental center later. In this case we would add a safety or running back early.

This sounds good but who plays LT and LG in this scenario?

 

[cstjohn17]

=================================
A NOTE ON OT's
Almost all of us are presuming that Light or Vollmer will be playing LT. Also, many of us beleive that Belichick might be willing to sign a free agent RT if Light doesn't come back AND Kaczur is considered unworthy to start at RT.

The key to this whole scenario is having at least one of Light or Mankins return. As much as I want to improve the defense I am not sold on "the franchise" being protected by:

Vollmer (NFL experience is only on the right side)
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick
Koppen
Connolly
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick

 

[BelichickFan]

It's all about value for me. We have tons of picks that we can get good DL in rounds 2 and 3 also. Unless (until) we trade away some of these picks there's no need to reach for need. I have 3 players on my list for 1a. Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Cameron Jordan. I'm fine with trading up for one. If we get Watt then Heyward that's fine but we can always get a Jenkins at 2b if Heyward isn't graded as a first rounder. No reaches, please, having all these picks allows for that.

 

[MaineMan]

The key to this whole scenario is having at least one of Light or Mankins return. As much as I want to improve the defense I am not sold on "the franchise" being protected by:

Vollmer (NFL experience is only on the right side)
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick
Koppen
Connolly
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick

Yeah. The last time the Pats started two rookies on the O-line was 2005 - Kaczur (3rd) at LT and Mankins (1st) at LG, with:
Neal (UDFA) at RG,
Koppen/Hochstein (both 5th) sharing time at OC
and Ashworth (UDFA)/Gorin (7th) sharing time at RT.

Brady was sacked 26 times, which was ... the same number as 2004 and 2006, and one more time than he was sacked in 2010. Passing offense ranked second in the NFL. Too bad the defense sucked so hard that season.

 

[mgteich]

GUARD
I have pick 38 or 39 starting at LG. I am fine with Ojilana, Watkins or Pouncey. One of them will be available at 38. If there is no trade downs, then Belichick would choose one of these at 33 after picking Heyward at 28. Are you suggesting that we use #17 for a guard?????? or 28????? Besides, one of Connolly and Mankins will be starting at LG. We are really talking about RG.

TACKLE
No one is suggesting having a late round rookie start at OT, or even a second rounder. Belichick will decide how likely it is that Light or Kaczur will be a starting OT for this season. The worst case scenario is if BOTH Light and Kaczur are not potential starters. In this EXTREME case, I still don't think that Belichick would start a rookie, even one of the overrated OT's who will be drafted in the last half of the first. As he done before, I believe that Belichick would sign a mid-level free agent to start at RT and move Vollmer over.

IMHO, it is NOT a reasonable solution to panic and draft an OT at 17. If Belichick did that, he of course wouldn't be signing Light. That is indeed an option for Belichick.

BOTTOM LINE REGARDING DRAFTING AN OT
I wouldn't throw something at the TV if we drafted an OT at 17 (or with that pick after a minor trade down). That would mean thatn Belichick has at least one OT rated more highly than I would ahve thought. However, I would not be happy if we didn't then get a DE before the first round ended. For example, If Belichick's plan is BTA plus Heyward, then that's fine. There are lots worse scenarios than that. After all, Belichick probably already has a pretty good idea with regard to what it will take to sign Light, and whether he wants to do so.

The key to this whole scenario is having at least one of Light or Mankins return. As much as I want to improve the defense I am not sold on "the franchise" being protected by:

Vollmer (NFL experience is only on the right side)
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick
Koppen
Connolly
Rookie - 2nd round or later draft pick

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

How would you all feel if we draft Watt or Jordan AND Heyward, and traded down from 33. We would still have 4-5 more top 100 picks to choose a develoipmental OLB and two starting quality offensive lineman.

Personally, I think that our DL would be absoluitely awesome. Somehow we would find room for both of them in our 7 DL positions.

Our LB's would also be much better because of the better line upfront.

Heyward? I'd be wondering which Heyward was coming to the Patriots? The same with Jordan. Watt is the only one of the three in whom I have some faith.

That said, I love the potential of two top young DL in the first two rounds, I'd just rather land one of Fairley/Watt/Wilkerson early, and Paea/Ellis /Jenkins in the second, assuming Ellis' off-field flags have been lowered to at least half-mast.

 

[Defsoul]

Heyward? I'd be wondering which Heyward was coming to the Patriots? The same with Jordan. Watt is the only one of the three in whom I have some faith.

Yeah, I wonder what happend to him in his senior year. I really wanted Heyward to become a Patriot after I saw him destroy Penn State and Oregon as a junior in '09. But I never saw him dominate that way again in his senior year until the bowl game against Arkansas.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Yeah, I wonder what happend to him in his senior year. I really wanted Heyward to become a Patriot after I saw him destroy Penn State and Oregon as a junior in '09. But I never saw him dominate that way again in his senior year until the bowl game against Arkansas.

Funny what a year can do to some pre draft 2011 boards froms last year. I remember Heyward, Romeus and Clayborn as sure fire top 10 locks. Now 2 are late 1st round, early 2nd guys and one is a 3rd or 4th round talent due to injury.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

This sounds good but who plays LT and LG in this scenario?

Worst case scenario, Kaczur and a rookie ... and that's not too shabby.

 

[Off The Grid]

Funny what a year can do to some pre draft 2011 boards froms last year. I remember Heyward, Romeus and Clayborn as sure fire top 10 locks. Now 2 are late 1st round, early 2nd guys and one is a 3rd or 4th round talent due to injury.

Well, sure, but on the other hand, guys like Nick Fairley and DaQuan Bowers have been rock steady Top 10 guys for the entire year.

 

[supafly]

Worst case scenario, Kaczur and a rookie ... and that's not too shabby.

I thought Kaczur was in jeopardy of possibly not staying here, due to his refusal to take a pay cut?

I thought he and his agent came right out about a month/6 wks ago, and said that there's no way they're taking any kind of pay cut? IIRC, there were a few threads on the subject.

Am I wrong here, crazy, or a little of both?

I think he's scheduled to become approx. a 3million+ 'supposed cap' hit.

Well, at least I'm not crazy--that's a relief, but I think Kaczur is a big uncertainty. 3.4 million, OUCH!!

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/739161-kaczur-patriots-headed-split.html

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I thought Kaczur was in jeopardy of possibly not staying here, due to his refusal to take a pay cut?

I thought he and his agent came right out about a month/6 wks ago, and said that there's no way they're taking any kind of pay cut? IIRC, there were a few threads on the subject.

Am I wrong here, crazy, or a little of both?

I think he's scheduled to become approx. a 3million+ 'supposed cap' hit.

Well, at least I'm not crazy--that's a relief, but I think Kaczur is a big uncertainty. 3.4 million, OUCH!!

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/739161-kaczur-patriots-headed-split.html

And then Neal retired, Light's re-signing was put on hold due to CBA delays, and Mankins was used as a test case in a lawsuit over the Franchise Tag. Kaczur is now a lock for a starting slot somewhere on the OL, and even if the CBA is resolved, Light is re-signed, and Mankins brought back for $10M, Kaczur is still penciled in at RG ahead of Connolly (five year starter at RT vs. one year starter as an injury replacement) or a rookie. Kaczur is cheap insurance, if he's beaten out for a starter's slot in camp he may then be traded or released, but he's safe for now.

 

[supafly]

And then Neal retired, Light's re-signing was put on hold due to CBA delays, and Mankins was used as a test case in a lawsuit over the Franchise Tag. Kaczur is now a lock for a starting slot somewhere on the OL, and even if the CBA is resolved, Light is re-signed, and Mankins brought back for $10M, Kaczur is still penciled in at RG ahead of Connolly (five year starter at RT vs. one year starter as an injury replacement) or a rookie. Kaczur is cheap insurance, if he's beaten out for a starter's slot in camp he may then be traded or released, but he's safe for now.

I agree that would make sense, although I am still cautiously optimistic, especially at 3.4 million. Lots of storylines and good plots for roster moves, the draft, and the upcoming season. Now let's just play ball and get a deal done already!

 

[dryheat44]

I agree that would make sense, although I am still cautiously optimistic, especially at 3.4 million. Lots of storylines and good plots for roster moves, the draft, and the upcoming season. Now let's just play ball and get a deal done already!

There also may very well not be a salary cap, which makes Kaczur's number more tolerable. As for double dipping DEs early, I guess I like Brace and Deaderick better than most. I think they both can be legitimate starting material. And I see no reason we want to get another backup for Wilfork that high when he's not going to play much barring injury. But using that logic, we should get another ILB early, since we're screwed if Mayo goes down.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There also may very well not be a salary cap, which makes Kaczur's number more tolerable. As for double dipping DEs early, I guess I like Brace and Deaderick better than most. I think they both can be legitimate starting material. And I see no reason we want to get another backup for Wilfork that high when he's not going to play much barring injury. But using that logic, we should get another ILB early, since we're screwed if Mayo goes down.

I am very happy with Deaderick and still completely undecided about Brace.

However I do know that a D Line of Wilkerson - Wilfork - T Warren with

Brace - Deaderick - Love and Taylor as the backups is a stronger and very deep unit.

I would not worry if Mayo goes down, finding ILB's that make no big plays and tons of tackles four yeards downfield are very easy to find.

 

[supafly]

There also may very well not be a salary cap, which makes Kaczur's number more tolerable. As for double dipping DEs early, I guess I like Brace and Deaderick better than most. I think they both can be legitimate starting material. And I see no reason we want to get another backup for Wilfork that high when he's not going to play much barring injury. But using that logic, we should get another ILB early, since we're screwed if Mayo goes down.

Yeah, I haven't been on board too much with the whole high round backup NT thing myself either, especially considering the fact that we have players to plug in there if something were to happen.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I posted this in the "get our DE early" thread, figured I'd post this here as well just to see what you guys thought(don't know how to quote myself from different thread)....

I'm right there with you on heyward and It will reflect in my final mock draft. If you listen to maineman's assessment(which I put alot of stock into) on why the Pass D suffered it makes even more sense. People like to throw Big Sey as the barometer by which all 3-4 LDE's are measured in BB's 3-4.

I believe Cam Heywards numbers and body type are closer to what seymour was in '01 than most others available @ our draft slot. With the exception of total tackles(which are insane for a DT) their numbers are very comparable. For all of seymour's ability to get after QB's he showed very little of that in his 4 years @ georgia. His All-american senior season he registered a whooping 1.5 sacks. Feast your eyes draftniks:

Career Numbers:

Richard Seymour: TOT - 223
Solo - 106
Sacks - 9.5
TFL - 25.5

Cam Heyward: 157
79
14.5
34

Moral of the story Seymour was a run stopping DT, who had the tools for BB and Co. to Mold into the elite 3-4 DE pass rusher he became. It starts with being able to stop the run in this D, but having the secondary ability to also get after the Passer. That is if we really are looking for a seymour type player.