1985 Patriots Or 1996 Patriots

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I wouldn't say the Bears were inferior that year.

Agreed. Nobody was running on them thst year, especially late in the year.

Passing was a different matter, though, but it took having a smart attack and a fearless QB to execute it. The Bears spent a ton of time in their base D and blitzed a lot. Miami exploited that in the Bears lone loss, particularly with Nat Moore, finding favorable matchups for him against LBs. Heck, even the Pats scored a 90yd TD when Craig James got behind Singletary on a blitz in week 2 that year. It was a very talented D, but a gambling one, too. The recent Pats probably put up 35+ on it, especially with both Edelman and Gronk, if the Bears didn't adjust out of base D blitz mode.

Teams caught on after 85 and pretty much put the 46 in mothballs. Even the Bears played a more conventional D in 86 after Ryan went to coach the Eagles and were statistically better than 85.

Regards,
Chris

 

[RayClay]

Agreed. Nobody was running on them thst year, especially late in the year.

Passing was a different matter, though, but it took having a smart attack and a fearless QB to execute it. The Bears spent a ton of time in their base D and blitzed a lot. Miami exploited that in the Bears lone loss, particularly with Nat Moore, finding favorable matchups for him against LBs. Heck, even the Pats scored a 90yd TD when Craig James got behind Singletary on a blitz in week 2 that year. It was a very talented D, but a gambling one, too. The recent Pats probably put up 35+ on it, especially with both Edelman and Gronk, if the Bears didn't adjust out of base D blitz mode.

Teams caught on after 85 and pretty much put the 46 in mothballs. Even the Bears played a more conventional D in 86 after Ryan went to coach the Eagles and were statistically better than 85.

Regards,
Chris

The Bears were awesome that year. Of course they did dare you to pass against their incredible pass rush, but only Marino could, that's one team.

You could assume Brady would shred it, but there's at least as good a chance he would spend the day on his back with our decent, but not fantastic offensive line.

I'm not talking about the defense as much as the execution of it by their players.

 

[mosi]

The whole Raiders game is on youtube.

MIA as well.

Havent been able to find the Jests one. They actually had a very good team.

AFC East was loaded that year. 3 teams with over 11 wins.

Yup, I still have all three on tape and watch them all the time. The commercials from that period are hilarious.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I wouldn't say the Bears were inferior that year.

They were beatable and not nearly as good as the media made them out to be.

We'll never know.

Think about the game in the Kingdome...the Seahawks could easily have blown us out that day...instead Grogan figured them out.

 

[supafly]

Meanwhile, I've seen Steeler jerseys worn around here since the early '70s

That’s because New Englanders aren’t Iron City drinking scumbags with an average IQ of 90. They can rightfully accept that there are fans of other teams.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

We'll never know because Berry decided to put a young, inexperienced, frail, inferior, record-setting sack-prone kid with the flu in there.

The Bears were very good...they were also full of themselves, immature and nervous to start the game. Three of McMahon's early throws could, or should, have been pick sixed.

For four previous games, the Pats' D & ST & running game carried us, but they needed our real leader and QB in there, from the start, not after it was out of hand.

I tend to agree with you, 0.0 chance - only with Eason starting.

Had to look this up but consider:
Starting Oct. 13th the Bear's D points allowed:
10 7 9 10 3 0 0 38 10 6 17* 0 0 10**
* This was the last game of the season, #1 seed wrapped up by a country mile, Detroit scores 2 TD in 4th quarter last game junk time
**Fumble by Walter Peyton gave Pats 3 points, other 7 happened 4th qtr junk time

One game over nearly 4 months where a team scored more than 10 only once (the shock game by Marino where Marino's OLine did an amazing job of giving him time to throw multiple long passes - I believe it was 2 passes over 30, 1 over 40, 1 over 50 - and the Bears' backup QB,McMahon got hurt, turned it over 4 times). Over that long span allowing no more than 10 points except once and had 4 shutouts including shutting out the AFCDG Giants (who had scored 400 points that year) and AFCCG Rams (who had 11 wins and was second best D). Incredible.

Look I was one of those that thought "if Grogan" but some reality eventually set in. I do think it probably wouldn't have been as lopsided with Grogan and maybe the utter miracle would have been a tad more in reach, however, Grogan took over in the 2nd quarter and I think broke midfield twice all game: to the Bears 43 and a TD drive in the 4th quarter when the Bears were up by around 40 points.
This game was bigger than the QB. Patriots were making mistakes and playing timid if not afraid in multiple spots. This was never going to be a Patriot win -- this was the Bears' year, period.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Had to look this up but consider:
Starting Oct. 13th the Bear's D points allowed:
10 7 9 10 3 0 0 38 10 6 17* 0 0 10**
* This was the last game of the season, #1 seed wrapped up by a country mile, Detroit scores 2 TD in 4th quarter last game junk time
**Fumble by Walter Peyton gave Pats 3 points, other 7 happened 4th qtr junk time

One game over nearly 4 months where a team scored more than 10 only once (the shock game by Marino where Marino's OLine did an amazing job of giving him time to throw multiple long passes - I believe it was 2 passes over 30, 1 over 40, 1 over 50 - and the Bears' backup QB,McMahon got hurt, turned it over 4 times). Over that long span allowing no more than 10 points except once and had 4 shutouts including shutting out the AFCDG Giants (who had scored 400 points that year) and AFCCG Rams (who had 11 wins and was second best D). Incredible.

Look I was one of those that thought "if Grogan" but some reality eventually set in. I do think it probably wouldn't have been as lopsided with Grogan and maybe the utter miracle would have been a tad more in reach, however, Grogan took over in the 2nd quarter and I think broke midfield twice all game: to the Bears 43 and a TD drive in the 4th quarter when the Bears were up by around 40 points.
This game was bigger than the QB. Patriots were making mistakes and playing timid if not afraid in multiple spots. This was never going to be a Patriot win -- this was the Bears' year, period.

We'll never know.

Ray Clayborn pointed out this fall that the whole team's confidence was affected by the decision. Like everyone on the planet besides Berry, the Patriots themselves could not envision a victory against that Bears team with Eason starting.

Giants and Rams? Please.

Steelers had a similarly dominant run on defense in '76, but lost.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

My favorite trivia from that Jets finish was after the 10th win, NBC studio commentator Paul McGuire predicted the Jets would not win another game. By week 16, the pregame show had replayed that prediction multiple times.

Yeah -- I remember that. It was so awesome!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Had to look this up but consider:
Starting Oct. 13th the Bear's D points allowed:
10 7 9 10 3 0 0 38 10 6 17* 0 0 10**
* This was the last game of the season, #1 seed wrapped up by a country mile, Detroit scores 2 TD in 4th quarter last game junk time
**Fumble by Walter Peyton gave Pats 3 points, other 7 happened 4th qtr junk time

One game over nearly 4 months where a team scored more than 10 only once (the shock game by Marino where Marino's OLine did an amazing job of giving him time to throw multiple long passes - I believe it was 2 passes over 30, 1 over 40, 1 over 50 - and the Bears' backup QB,McMahon got hurt, turned it over 4 times). Over that long span allowing no more than 10 points except once and had 4 shutouts including shutting out the AFCDG Giants (who had scored 400 points that year) and AFCCG Rams (who had 11 wins and was second best D). Incredible.

Look I was one of those that thought "if Grogan" but some reality eventually set in. I do think it probably wouldn't have been as lopsided with Grogan and maybe the utter miracle would have been a tad more in reach, however, Grogan took over in the 2nd quarter and I think broke midfield twice all game: to the Bears 43 and a TD drive in the 4th quarter when the Bears were up by around 40 points.
This game was bigger than the QB. Patriots were making mistakes and playing timid if not afraid in multiple spots. This was never going to be a Patriot win -- this was the Bears' year, period.

The Bears would have won easily of Grogs started. It would not have mattered at all

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

We'll never know.

Ray Clayborn pointed out this fall that the whole team's confidence was affected by the decision. Like everyone on the planet besides Berry, the Patriots themselves could not envision a victory against that Bears team with Eason starting.

Giants and Rams? Please.

Steelers had a similarly dominant run on defense in '76, but lost.

Brother APF, this was deeper than QB. The 85 Patriots needed BB or BP at the helm to have any chance. No disrespect to Berry but he was not the coach to get that team ready to play an 85 Bears D. A drill SGT was needed to pound into the Patriots' heads a single laser focus practice that pounded in their heads to be unafraid. Berry was not that guy to get the team prepared to beat that Bears' team.

You're picking and choosing: Giants and Rams actually had pretty good teams, certainly good enough to score points. In 76 Pitt had a great run of D, no doubt, but they weren't even the overall best team in the league. Both of their playoff games were away including at Oakland against the notably superior Raiders (who lost 1 game all season and in fact was the best team). This Pitt D right out of the gate let Baltimore put up a TD. For the Bears? no one was even earning a sniff at the endzone, including the Patriots, until the 4th quarter of the SB. Think about that, in 11 straight quarters of playoff football the Bears gave up 3 points (that 3 points setup by a Peyton fumble near the Bears' own 20). It isn't arguable -- that was one of the most dominating playoff performances in the modern SB era (can't speak for the older days).
I understand seeing it from a Patriots' view but Steve Grogan being spotted 3 free possessions to start the SB wasn't going to change how lopsided this matchup was. By Dec 1 the Bears were a country mile ahead of all other teams and only that shocking loss to Miami kept the Bears from having the most dominating, greatest season in the NFL era. 85 was that older school NFL where one team was just 'the' team.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

The Bears would have won easily of Grogs started. It would not have mattered at all

I think if Grogan plays the whole game it may have kept it from being a gazillion to 3 as quickly but a tangible difference at victory? No (and I have my doubts if Grogan makes it through 4 quarters upright. Grogan was monster! guts but the Bears were a QB wrecking machine and it was amazing Grogan made it through the end of the game considering the brutal pounding he took).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The Bears would have won easily of Grogs started. It would not have mattered at all

We'll never know

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Brother APF, this was deeper than QB. The 85 Patriots needed BB or BP at the helm to have any chance. No disrespect to Berry but he was not the coach to get that team ready to play an 85 Bears D. A drill SGT was needed to pound into the Patriots' heads a single laser focus practice that pounded in their heads to be unafraid. Berry was not that guy to get the team prepared to beat that Bears' team.

You're picking and choosing: Giants and Rams actually had pretty good teams, certainly good enough to score points. In 76 Pitt had a great run of D, no doubt, but they weren't even the overall best team in the league. Both of their playoff games were away including at Oakland against the notably superior Raiders (who lost 1 game all season and in fact was the best team). This Pitt D right out of the gate let Baltimore put up a TD. For the Bears? no one was even earning a sniff at the endzone, including the Patriots, until the 4th quarter of the SB. Think about that, in 11 straight quarters of playoff football the Bears gave up 3 points (that 3 points setup by a Peyton fumble near the Bears' own 20). It isn't arguable -- that was one of the most dominating playoff performances in the modern SB era (can't speak for the older days).
I understand seeing it from a Patriots' view but Steve Grogan being spotted 3 free possessions to start the SB wasn't going to change how lopsided this matchup was. By Dec 1 the Bears were a country mile ahead of all other teams and only that shocking loss to Miami kept the Bears from having the most dominating, greatest season in the NFL era. 85 was that older school NFL where one team was just 'the' team.

We'll never know

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think if Grogan plays the whole game it may have kept it from being a gazillion to 3 as quickly but a tangible difference at victory? No (and I have my doubts if Grogan makes it through 4 quarters upright. Grogan was monster! guts but the Bears were a QB wrecking machine and it was amazing Grogan made it through the end of the game considering the brutal pounding he took).

I see a one score game going into the fourth quarter.

Even if the Bears are up two scores, we still have a chance.

I'm not so much denigrating the Bears, as I am acknowledging the Patriots, with Grogan, were right near the top in all three phases that season.

 

[DarrylS]

The NFL was a completely different league in 1985, so discussing how Brady would have done for the Pats if pure folly. The Pats had a variety of folks coaching the Offense with no coordinator..

Les Steckel QB coach (considered by some as one of the worse NFL coaches of all time)
Bobby Grier Offensive Backfield
Harold Jackson WR's
Dante Scarnecchia TE's

Cannot imagine a cohesive planned offense with these folks all involved... and no sideline leader. Grogan called his own plays, not sure about Eason.. a fan forgets how inept all of the play in the Superbowl XX until you look back at it through the rosey glasses of the current Patriots machine.

 

[RayClay]

They were beatable and not nearly as good as the media made them out to be.

We'll never know.

Think about the game in the Kingdome...the Seahawks could easily have blown us out that day...instead Grogan figured them out.

No, there defense was awesome that year. Of course Marino faced them down, but that was one quarterback. Anyone who could stand in til the last second and complete passes could beat them but nobody else could. That's like me saying I could pull my ninja move off right before you pulled the trigger on the gun you held to my head. Sure, in theory.

They were what they were that year, the most fearsome defense in years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I see a one score game going into the fourth quarter.

Even if the Bears are up two scores, we still have a chance.

I'm not so much denigrating the Bears, as I am acknowledging the Patriots, with Grogan, were right near the top in all three phases that season.

Cmon now.

 

[patriot1136]

'85 was a little before my time. Was Tony Eason the starting quarterback, then got hurt, which brought in Grogan? I guess there was a QB controversy?

 

[Off The Grid]

I just wish the 85 Pats didn't play scared like so many AFC teams did for years in the Super Bowl. I'd be happy with a moral victory like that, win or not.

Regards,
Chris

Couldn't disagree with you more. That team wasn't scared of anything.

You forget we're talking about the Team that broke the 18 Game Bad Fish Jinx.

Busted their Asses in FishTown, baby. Stomped all over them.

Marino was never the same after that. Neither was Shula.

And we were the original Road Warriors, taking it to 3 different Teams.

Scared??? Nah. That Team wasn't scared of anything.

Eason, though...That's quite another matter.

 

[Off The Grid]

96..

50% of the 85 team was on coke

Plus the 1996 AFC title game literally SHOOK Foxboro Stadium... When Otis smith picked up that fumble and returned it for a td the ****ing benches were shaking...i was in 223 and I remember it like yesterday

I vote just as strongly for that 1985 Team...But I hear you loud and clear about that beautiful 1996 Team...One'f my best moments as a Fan was when ~ even though he turned out to be a Tomase Level ScumBag ~ Coach Bill I (The Vile) who'f course we all loved, that day, steps in front of the microphone after the AFC Championship Game Victory and gives a shout out to none other than my all-time freaking favorite (PreBrady) Patriot, who wasn't able to play that day, because'f injury: Sam freaking Gash, Warrior, Scourge of LineBackers, and a great American!!