#1 Need OLD/DE PASS RUSHERS!

[captain stone]

Yes, I meant Cam Johnson. Not sure how I came up with Cam Thomas...

Just prob. thinking of Cam Thomas, who was drafted by SD this year.

 

[Defsoul]

Just prob. thinking of Cam Thomas, who was drafted by SD this year.

Probably. They are both from the ACC and they both play on the defensive line. But one is a 270 pound defensive end while the other one is a 330 pound defensive tackle. How do you mix that up? I just had a big brain fart.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

After the draft, Belichick said a few cryptic words indicating that there WERE players he was interested in trading up for, but the teams in question weren't willing to trade down. Note that no trades took place in the 6 spots leading up to the Patriots' pick, a range that included J.J. Watt, Nick Fairley and Robert Quinn as well as Kerrigan.

As for Solder, early results suggest they may well have gotten the single best player left on the board at #17, a guy who both filled a need at a top-value position (remember, Light was unsigned) and has mammoth upside. And at #28, consider that NOT ONE edge rusher was drafted between 28 and 33, so who did they miss out on?

IMO that leaves one solid edge-rusher complaint: passing on Jabaal Sheard. And I have to admit, even though I might have been the biggest Dowling fan on the board, Sheard would have been my pick at 33.

This is what I am saying. I have no bones with the Solder pick. He has turned out better than I ever imagined.

I also have no bones with the New Orleans trade given that we had pick #33.

Unless BB could have flipped #33 for a 2012 first rounder, he needed to go pass rusher. Sheard has that sudden first step that all great pass rushers need. Was he a finished product? No, but that is where development and ST come in.

My single biggest problem with BB the GM, is the complete lack of OLB/DE types that he has drafted for BB the coach to employ.

So year after year we draft decent developmental O line guys late that can't crack our roster, causing us to give them away. Meanwhile we are recycling garbage veteran players and trading for more garbage veteran players (Burgess comes to mind) for the OLB/DE spots.

How about we draft some developmental OLB/DE types late instead of the O line guys that we always seem to cut and they can contribute on ST while red shirting a year as far as the base defense goes and we start the process where we no longer need future veteran retreads!!!!!

I don't unerstand how anybody from the media covering the Patriots regularly can not look at Henne, Fitzpatrick and Campbell having all day to throw the ball and not do an indepth story on all the DE/OLB types that BB has passed on in the last five drafts alone.
Are they that afraid of BB???????

 

[Snake Eyes]

This is what I am saying. I have no bones with the Solder pick. He has turned out better than I ever imagined.

I also have no bones with the New Orleans trade given that we had pick #33.

Unless BB could have flipped #33 for a 2012 first rounder, he needed to go pass rusher. Sheard has that sudden first step that all great pass rushers need. Was he a finished product? No, but that is where development and ST come in.

My single biggest problem with BB the GM, is the complete lack of OLB/DE types that he has drafted for BB the coach to employ.

So year after year we draft decent developmental O line guys late that can't crack our roster, causing us to give them away. Meanwhile we are recycling garbage veteran players and trading for more garbage veteran players (Burgess comes to mind) for the OLB/DE spots.

How about we draft some developmental OLB/DE types late instead of the O line guys that we always seem to cut and they can contribute on ST while red shirting a year as far as the base defense goes and we start the process where we no longer need future veteran retreads!!!!!

I don't unerstand how anybody from the media covering the Patriots regularly can not look at Henne, Fitzpatrick and Campbell having all day to throw the ball and not do an indepth story on all the DE/OLB types that BB has passed on in the last five drafts alone.
Are they that afraid of BB???????

While drafting late round players for the D-line is nice I'd actually be all for drafting them early as well

 

[patchick]

How about we draft some developmental OLB/DE types late instead of the O line guys that we always seem to cut and they can contribute on ST while red shirting a year as far as the base defense goes and we start the process where we no longer need future veteran retreads!!!!!

Actually, this year they did that with Carter.

 

[Off The Grid]

Probably. They are both from the ACC and they both play on the defensive line. But one is a 270 pound defensive end while the other one is a 330 pound defensive tackle. How do you mix that up? I just had a big Fizzy Lifting Drink.

Edited that for ya.

 

[patfanken]

This is what I am saying. I have no bones with the Solder pick. He has turned out better than I ever imagined.

I also have no bones with the New Orleans trade given that we had pick #33.

Unless BB could have flipped #33 for a 2012 first rounder, he needed to go pass rusher. Sheard has that sudden first step that all great pass rushers need. Was he a finished product? No, but that is where development and ST come in.

My single biggest problem with BB the GM, is the complete lack of OLB/DE types that he has drafted for BB the coach to employ.

So year after year we draft decent developmental O line guys late that can't crack our roster, causing us to give them away. Meanwhile we are recycling garbage veteran players and trading for more garbage veteran players (Burgess comes to mind) for the OLB/DE spots.

How about we draft some developmental OLB/DE types late instead of the O line guys that we always seem to cut and they can contribute on ST while red shirting a year as far as the base defense goes and we start the process where we no longer need future veteran retreads!!!!!

I don't unerstand how anybody from the media covering the Patriots regularly can not look at Henne, Fitzpatrick and Campbell having all day to throw the ball and not do an indepth story on all the DE/OLB types that BB has passed on in the last five drafts alone.
Are they that afraid of BB???????

I understand your angst, OJ, but our gut instincts as fans, DO NOT compute when you are building a total package defense. You don't automatically create a pass rush with the drafting of a single individual. It just doesn't work that way. Most of the time sacks are the result of team activity and NOT just one guy beating someone one on one. Besides the best pass rushers usually take 3 or 4 years to develop.

A lot of Pats fans and experts cried out for the Pats to do what was necessary to go and grab Robert Quinn, and damned be the consequences. Right now, in 4 games, Quinn has 3 total tackles and one sack. Compare that to Ninko, who has 14 and one.

I'm not saying that Quinn might not be a spectacular pass rusher down the road, but its often just a shot in the dark and its hard to take a pick that high and only to wait a few years before you start to get something back from your investment....and only if you are right.

This is especially telling when you think that some of best pass rushers in the conference (Wake, Dummerville, and Harrison, weren't drafted at all. I used to lead the cry for drafting that pass rusher. Now I am willing to wait until all the pieces are put in place. Or wait for FA to address that need.

 

[patchick]

some of best pass rushers in the conference (Wake, Dummerville, and Harrison) weren't drafted at all.

FYI, Dumervil was a 4th-round pick for the Broncos.

But more globally, it does seem to be one of the most unpredictable positions to draft. HUGE number of high drafted busts like Gholston, Maybin, Ayers, Harvey. Surprising number of pure workout warriors like Wake & Matthews who did little on the field in college but looked good in shorts then lit up the NFL.

 

[Sciz]

If we missed out on Vereen and were stuck with Ridley would that be a bad thing?

So I just proved that you can't find a good trade to only lose Dowling and NO's first in return for Kerrigan, so now you're willing to give up that 2nd round pick altogether? We may not have seen anything from Vereen yet, but he's still a second round pick that the Pats wasted absolutely no time in picking when they were on the clock.

 

[gohogs14]

Jake Bequette returns tomorrow. Ill be keeping my eye on him.

 

[Sciz]

Jake Bequette returns tomorrow. Ill be keeping my eye on him.

I like him. And he's got the size to be a Belichick pass rusher, unlike all these 6'1", 240 pound guys.

 

[reflexblue]

This is what I am saying. I have no bones with the Solder pick. He has turned out better than I ever imagined.

I also have no bones with the New Orleans trade given that we had pick #33.

Unless BB could have flipped #33 for a 2012 first rounder, he needed to go pass rusher. Sheard has that sudden first step that all great pass rushers need. Was he a finished product? No, but that is where development and ST come in.

My single biggest problem with BB the GM, is the complete lack of OLB/DE types that he has drafted for BB the coach to employ.

So year after year we draft decent developmental O line guys late that can't crack our roster, causing us to give them away. Meanwhile we are recycling garbage veteran players and trading for more garbage veteran players (Burgess comes to mind) for the OLB/DE spots.

How about we draft some developmental OLB/DE types late instead of the O line guys that we always seem to cut and they can contribute on ST while red shirting a year as far as the base defense goes and we start the process where we no longer need future veteran retreads!!!!!

I don't unerstand how anybody from the media covering the Patriots regularly can not look at Henne, Fitzpatrick and Campbell having all day to throw the ball and not do an indepth story on all the DE/OLB types that BB has passed on in the last five drafts alone.
Are they that afraid of BB???????

Or Year after year BB the Gm drafts DB's and many in the early rounds, and many of whom are developmental. My beef is that he very rarely takes an OLB in the same range. I know iknow someones going to say Cunningham, give me another OLB besides him that has been drafted in the 1st 2nd or 3rd rounds. Belichick doesn't seem to have a problem drafting DB's (many of whom have been busts) year after year, but seems to be unwilling to take a chance on front seven players.

 

[reflexblue]

I understand your angst, OJ, but our gut instincts as fans, DO NOT compute when you are building a total package defense. You don't automatically create a pass rush with the drafting of a single individual. It just doesn't work that way. Most of the time sacks are the result of team activity and NOT just one guy beating someone one on one. Besides the best pass rushers usually take 3 or 4 years to develop.

A lot of Pats fans and experts cried out for the Pats to do what was necessary to go and grab Robert Quinn, and damned be the consequences. Right now, in 4 games, Quinn has 3 total tackles and one sack. Compare that to Ninko, who has 14 and one.

I'm not saying that Quinn might not be a spectacular pass rusher down the road, but its often just a shot in the dark and its hard to take a pick that high and only to wait a few years before you start to get something back from your investment....and only if you are right.

This is especially telling when you think that some of best pass rushers in the conference (Wake, Dummerville, and Harrison, weren't drafted at all. I used to lead the cry for drafting that pass rusher. Now I am willing to wait until all the pieces are put in place. Or wait for FA to address that need.

A total package Defense, we have been waiting for years for that to happen. I want the total package too, you don't need to start at the back with DB's and work your way foward, you could also take Pass Rushers to help the DB's. And if you don't take the DE/OLB's your not going to be able to develop one. The last time BB took a D-lineman was Wilfork Six years ago and has Never taken a Pass rushing OLB in the first or second round that i can think of off the top of my head. Again you need to take one to develop one, you might even get one that will make an imediate impact.

 

[patsfan-1982]

here is what i want to see from the Defense next year

#1 stay with the 4-3 Defense the pats Dont have any Good 3-4 OLB's on the roster and have not Drafted a Good true 3-4 OLB since 1993 ( Chris Slade ) but they do have 3 pretty good 4-3 LB's in Fletcher Spikes and Mayo, they are set at DT with Wilfork Haynesworth and Pryor bring in a 4-3 DE through FA or Trade not a brake the bank guy but a pass rush only guy that can come off the edge and get 7 or 8 sacks,

#2 please stop tradeing down there is a Rookie cap now package does two #1's and Draft the best CB on the bord Leigh Bodden is not geting any better with age and Arrington is more of a nickle back they need some one to play next to McCourty for the next 3 or 4 years or package the two #1's and Draft a true baller at FS


IMO if they do that will be pretty good but the Key is to stay with the 4-3 and build the defense around wilfork Haynesworth and Mayo

 

[patsfaninpa]

So I just proved that you can't find a good trade to only lose Dowling and NO's first in return for Kerrigan, so now you're willing to give up that 2nd round pick altogether? We may not have seen anything from Vereen yet, but he's still a second round pick that the Pats wasted absolutely no time in picking when they were on the clock.

You didn't prove anything. Belichick could have gotten Kerrigan for 28 and 33 if he wanted too. He would have also gotten another pick.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Watching Texas Oklahoma

Frank Alexander*|*Oklahoma,*DE*:*2012 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Decent...seems a bit less fluid in the hips.

This dude looks good..too bad we have to wait till 2013.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89455&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

 

[Sciz]

You didn't prove anything. Belichick could have gotten Kerrigan for 28 and 33 if he wanted too. He would have also gotten another pick.

I don't doubt that he would've gotten another pick. I completely doubt that he could have gotten a high enough pick back to get both Ridley and Mallett. You tried to provide a scenario, and you failed.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I don't doubt that he would've gotten another pick. I completely doubt that he could have gotten a high enough pick back to get both Ridley and Mallett. You tried to provide a scenario, and you failed.

1 - Ridley wasn't rated very high, it's certainly possible that he would have dropped.

2 - How did he fail? How is his speculation any more valid that yours?

 

[Sciz]

1 - Ridley wasn't rated very high, it's certainly possible that he would have dropped.

2 - How did he fail? How is his speculation any more valid that yours?

1. Ridley was rated a heck of a lot higher by NFL teams than by most amateur draftniks. Besides, it's a slippery slope argument. Where do you draw the line of where he would have hypothetically not been available? We'll never know because he could have gone at the very next pick for all we know.

2. He failed because his trade that was supposed to get Kerrigan only at the cost of Dowling and NO's 2012 first involved a pick that the team didn't have yet. And rather than offer an alternative, he changed his goal from getting all the same players to arguing that Vereen wasn't a big loss, which is a horrendous argument.

In general, redoing draft trades in hindsight is just a bad idea. You can never know if the other team would have been interested (even assuming the Pats would have been), and planning on getting players later than they were actually picked leads to endless arguments like this.

 

[ay-yo]

After the draft, Belichick said a few cryptic words indicating that there WERE players he was interested in trading up for, but the teams in question weren't willing to trade down. Note that no trades took place in the 6 spots leading up to the Patriots' pick, a range that included J.J. Watt, Nick Fairley and Robert Quinn as well.

To me this says they were looking to package 28 and 33 and Solder was the plan at 17. No team wanted to move back to 28 tho. I'd take fairley 1st and watt next just IMO.