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203Pat

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The patriots are NOT terrible drafters; full stop.
============
There have been many analyses (by other than our posters). The patriots are almost always in the top 10. And yes, we do that even though we rarely have a top 10 pick.
==================
CHOOSING WHERE TO GET PLAYERS
We can players from the draft, from free agency, by trades and by concentrating on re-signing our own.

CLEARLY, Belichick has chosen to use top draft picks on defensive players. And he has done very well by suing that strategy.

Belichick has also used higher picks than most on OL's, also doing well.

WHAT ABOUT QB AND WR?
Of the current teams, 12 have NEVER won a Super Bowl. Yes, having a top 10 QB and an OK WR helps a lot.

We think that the team collapsed after Brady. Perhaps, our perspective is that we are used to winning the division and playing in the Championship Game. Not making the playoffs is the NORM in the NFL. Winning 7-10 games without a top 10 quarterback is very difficult.
========================================
Let's be VERY CLEAR. Belichick has failed to find a top 10 QB in the post-Brady era. Let's ALSO be clear. If Mac had worked out (reasonable for a top 15 pick), the patriots would be consistently competing for the playoffs. We are talking about winning 1-3 more games a year. In reality, we WERE INDEED competitive through the first 12 games in all of the last three years.

And YES, the coaching debacle of 2022 was pure negligence.

Perhaps, we should have brought in a $20M a year QB for 2023 to compete with Mac instead of giving Mac another year. Of course, we would have to have found the $20M. [BTW keeping Meyers instead of Shuster wouldn't have helped the cap situation]. But, we could have done it. Perhaps this QB would also have cost a draft choice. I would note that we had trouble finding cap money for the OL's that we signed.

Belichick wasn't ready to quit on Jones. So, here we are. Most posters predicted 7-10 wins.
1) We had lots of injuries coming out of camp.
2) Jones was a mess and a big question mark after the coaching debacle of 2022 (even there, we were competitive with a month to go].
3) We had severe needs on the OL.
4) We lacked a #1 receiver.
5) Our schedule was the most difficult in the NFL.
AND THEN the injury situation got worse.
==============
The BOTTOM LINE is that at 1-3, our results and performance were about what should have been expected, given the additional injuries. Even at 2-4, our results would not be unforeseen or unreasonable, if we are honest with ourselves. Until we get a QB, we are 7-10 team at best, and yes, Belichick still hopes that Jones is that quarterback.
This is borderline unhinged.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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The patriots are NOT terrible drafters; full stop.
============
There have been many analyses (by other than our posters). The patriots are almost always in the top 10. And yes, we do that even though we rarely have a top 10 pick.
==================
CHOOSING WHERE TO GET PLAYERS
We can players from the draft, from free agency, by trades and by concentrating on re-signing our own.

CLEARLY, Belichick has chosen to use top draft picks on defensive players. And he has done very well by suing that strategy.

Belichick has also used higher picks than most on OL's, also doing well.

WHAT ABOUT QB AND WR?
Of the current teams, 12 have NEVER won a Super Bowl. Yes, having a top 10 QB and an OK WR helps a lot.

We think that the team collapsed after Brady. Perhaps, our perspective is that we are used to winning the division and playing in the Championship Game. Not making the playoffs is the NORM in the NFL. Winning 7-10 games without a top 10 quarterback is very difficult.
========================================
Let's be VERY CLEAR. Belichick has failed to find a top 10 QB in the post-Brady era. Let's ALSO be clear. If Mac had worked out (reasonable for a top 15 pick), the patriots would be consistently competing for the playoffs. We are talking about winning 1-3 more games a year. In reality, we WERE INDEED competitive through the first 12 games in all of the last three years.

And YES, the coaching debacle of 2022 was pure negligence.

Perhaps, we should have brought in a $20M a year QB for 2023 to compete with Mac instead of giving Mac another year. Of course, we would have to have found the $20M. [BTW keeping Meyers instead of Shuster wouldn't have helped the cap situation]. But, we could have done it. Perhaps this QB would also have cost a draft choice. I would note that we had trouble finding cap money for the OL's that we signed.

Belichick wasn't ready to quit on Jones. So, here we are. Most posters predicted 7-10 wins.
1) We had lots of injuries coming out of camp.
2) Jones was a mess and a big question mark after the coaching debacle of 2022 (even there, we were competitive with a month to go].
3) We had severe needs on the OL.
4) We lacked a #1 receiver.
5) Our schedule was the most difficult in the NFL.
AND THEN the injury situation got worse.
==============
The BOTTOM LINE is that at 1-3, our results and performance were about what should have been expected, given the additional injuries. Even at 2-4, our results would not be unforeseen or unreasonable, if we are honest with ourselves. Until we get a QB, we are 7-10 team at best, and yes, Belichick still hopes that Jones is that quarterback.

1697051133040.jpeg
 

Kontradiction

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The patriots are NOT terrible drafters; full stop.
============
There have been many analyses (by other than our posters). The patriots are almost always in the top 10. And yes, we do that even though we rarely have a top 10 pick.
==================
CHOOSING WHERE TO GET PLAYERS
We can players from the draft, from free agency, by trades and by concentrating on re-signing our own.

CLEARLY, Belichick has chosen to use top draft picks on defensive players. And he has done very well by suing that strategy.

Belichick has also used higher picks than most on OL's, also doing well.

WHAT ABOUT QB AND WR?
Of the current teams, 12 have NEVER won a Super Bowl. Yes, having a top 10 QB and an OK WR helps a lot.

We think that the team collapsed after Brady. Perhaps, our perspective is that we are used to winning the division and playing in the Championship Game. Not making the playoffs is the NORM in the NFL. Winning 7-10 games without a top 10 quarterback is very difficult.
========================================
Let's be VERY CLEAR. Belichick has failed to find a top 10 QB in the post-Brady era. Let's ALSO be clear. If Mac had worked out (reasonable for a top 15 pick), the patriots would be consistently competing for the playoffs. We are talking about winning 1-3 more games a year. In reality, we WERE INDEED competitive through the first 12 games in all of the last three years.

And YES, the coaching debacle of 2022 was pure negligence.

Perhaps, we should have brought in a $20M a year QB for 2023 to compete with Mac instead of giving Mac another year. Of course, we would have to have found the $20M. [BTW keeping Meyers instead of Shuster wouldn't have helped the cap situation]. But, we could have done it. Perhaps this QB would also have cost a draft choice. I would note that we had trouble finding cap money for the OL's that we signed.

Belichick wasn't ready to quit on Jones. So, here we are. Most posters predicted 7-10 wins.
1) We had lots of injuries coming out of camp.
2) Jones was a mess and a big question mark after the coaching debacle of 2022 (even there, we were competitive with a month to go].
3) We had severe needs on the OL.
4) We lacked a #1 receiver.
5) Our schedule was the most difficult in the NFL.
AND THEN the injury situation got worse.
==============
The BOTTOM LINE is that at 1-3, our results and performance were about what should have been expected, given the additional injuries. Even at 2-4, our results would not be unforeseen or unreasonable, if we are honest with ourselves. Until we get a QB, we are 7-10 team at best, and yes, Belichick still hopes that Jones is that quarterback.
:excited:
 

MrBigglesWorth

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Mac played well his first year. A seasoned journeyman wouldn't change the outcome of that year. And the ****show of hiring Patricia the next year and the total lack of addressing the offense over those two seasons would just leave us in the same predicament.

The only thing that would have fixed the current situation would have been to hit more in the drafts and for Bill to better address the offense. And probably not needing to give his guys a job and actually get some modern NFL coaches on the roster.
A journey man would help this year
 

lancerman

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A journey man would help this year
Doubtful. A journeyman dies behind this line. A great QB might elevate this to a 7 or 8 wins at best. At that point, it's just purgatory. Roll with what you have and play for next season
 

Patriot Missile

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They picked the last Qb of the 5. A lot of other fans from other teams were pissed Pats took Mac and thought Patriots selected a keeper. Had a real good first year. Fast forward ahead and it’s a different story. Don’t know what to say, offensive line and wr’s really help out and it’s important to build confidence early to have security and weapons as well as not putting a defensive coordinator in there year 2. The guy is basically ruined and maybe should not of been had the groceries and supervision been better. This is a player who threw deep and often with no fear and then was basically bottled up and told to play small ball in year 1.

The defensive picks have worked out and there isn’t a fan on this sight that could dispute it with facts based on the other 31 teams draft success. You’d have to really nitpick to find them below the league Average there.

Offense is a whole different story. Not good enough and no one can objectively say they’ve had any kind of real success the last few years. Onwenu, Stevenson and a very small sample of Douglas is all that comes to mind the last 3 or 4 drafts.
 

TheRainMaker

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Many folks have that reaction to my posts after a loss.

I suppose I could have waited to reflect until after the Raiders game.
Your timing was poor. The roster has deteriorated and completely overmatched by their competition, yet there's posts how they are good drafters? You are not the only one. I've seen a poster say this roster is really good and deep. That is delusion.

Within the first 10 years of his career as NE HC, Bill drafted 14 Pro Bowl/All Pro Players with one of them being a K and one Special Teamer. In fact, all of these players picked had one thing in common. They were picked with either Pioli or Reese in the house. Within the last 10 years, Bill has drafted a whopping ONE Pro Bowl/All Pro Player on defense and the other two a returner and Punter that was cut 7 months after receiving an extension.

The results speak for themselves that Bill has been really bad at drafting for many years.
 
Last edited:

MrBigglesWorth

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Doubtful. A journeyman dies behind this line. A great QB might elevate this to a 7 or 8 wins at best. At that point, it's just purgatory. Roll with what you have and play for next season
They should drafted a QB last yr in the later rounds. Next yr draft two QBs and get a journey man
 

mgteich

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Your timing was poor. The roster has deteriorated and completely overmatched by their competition, yet there's posts how they are good drafters? You are not the only one. I've seen a poster say this roster is really good and deep. That is delusion.

Within the first 10 years of his career as NE HC, Bill drafted 14 Pro Bowl/All Pro Players with one of them being a K and one Special Teamer. In fact, all of these players picked had one thing in common. They were picked with either Pioli or Reese in the house. Within the last 10 years, Bill has drafted a whopping ONE Pro Bowl/All Pro Player on defense and the other two a returner and Punter that was cut 7 months after receiving an extension.

The results speak for themselves that Bill has been really bad at drafting for many years.
When we were 1-3, we needed to win 2 games to be back in contenrion. We lost one game and we were the worst team in the league, and have had terrible drafts for many years.

If we had beaten New Orleans, folks would be talking about probably not making the playoffs because of out tough schedule and injuries.
=========
One game has made all the difference. And yes, it was the worst game ever.
 

skinnydog

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Believe what you choose to believe. Belichick has emphasized Defense in his draft for over 20 years. Personally, I think that our Defense is fine. And yes, Belichick is also fine at acquiring mid-level talent on Defense from free agency. Of course, you left out 2020.
=================================
THE SO-CALLED TERRIBLE DRAFTING - DEFENSE
2020
2 Dugger
2 Uche
3 Jennings

2021
2 Barmore

2022
3 Jones
4 Jones
6 Robert

2023
1 Gonzalez
2 White
3 Mapu
7 Bolden

Yes, Bill missed sometimes, especially with injured players like Perkins and McGrone.
============================
And none of those players from 2020, 2021, or 2022 are great players. Dugger is good not great. Uche? Jennings? Do you think any team playing the Pats thinks how in the world are we going to account of any of those players? There’s not a true defensive game changer in any of those years (Excluding 2023). I really thought Barmore would be a game changing type of player, loved the pick, but so far good but not great. Not every pro bowl player is drafted at the top of the draft, So Bill has had plenty of years to find a true stud on defense, but we get a lot of good not great players.
 

skinnydog

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The patriots are NOT terrible drafters; full stop.
============
There have been many analyses (by other than our posters). The patriots are almost always in the top 10. And yes, we do that even though we rarely have a top 10 pick.
==============
The BOTTOM LINE is that at 1-3, our results and performance were about what should have been expected, given the additional injuries. Even at 2-4, our results would not be unforeseen or unreasonable, if we are honest with ourselves. Until we get a QB, we are 7-10 team at best, and yes, Belichick still hopes that Jones is that quarterback.
Just curious, exactly which analysts have rated the Pats drafts as consistently being in the top 10?
 

Boomer B

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Way to miss the point.

McCourty: drafted in 2010
Hightower: drafted in 2012
Chung: drafted in 2009
Mankins: drafted in 2005
Watson: drafted in 2004
Wilson: drafted in 2003

6 of the 8 guys that you listed were all drafted over a decade ago. From 2014 to present there are two guys that have been worth a damn out of our top draft picks. That's how you have a team go into decline, when you are flopping on your early picks that often. And Dugger was someone we traded out for because we sat on our asses and watched a WR run happen right before us and rather than make a trade up and grab Jefferson we just sit on thumbs and said "oh well" and didn't bother with the 9 picks of the round. You can't tell me it was impossible for the Pats to jump 1 or 2 spots to grab a WR which was a huge position of need and would have been more impactful than any player we could add to the defense. And it's not even like Dugger and Barmore are some world class picks either. They are solid and have shown bright spots, but they aren't lighting the world on fire. They aren't Hightower/McCourty/Mankins level.

It's a big problem when your most valuable picks for almost a decade have amounted to only two solid role players.

Let's just go through some hits our division rivals got with their first two round picks in the draft in the last 10 years

Jets: Sheldon Richardson, Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Quinnen Willaims, Sauce Gardner, Breece Hall.
Bills. Robert Woods, Marquis Lawson, Shaq Lawson, TreDavious White, Tremaine Edmunds, Josh Allen, James Cook.
Dolphins: Devante Parker (lol), Xavien Howard, Jordan Phillips, Waddle, Robert Hunt, Jevon Holland.

And before you say it, quite a few of these guys were in range of the Patriots and I didn'y even bother to list all of them. Getting SOMETHING out of the first two rounds is important to maintaining a competitve team.

Screw it, let's look at the current top team in the NFL that appeared in 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. The Chiefs. Let's see how they did in the last 10 years with just the first two picks they took.

2013: They got Travis Kelce in the third round. Patriots easily could have got him.
2014: Dee Ford with the 23rd pick.
2015: Marcus Peters, Mitch Morse
2016: Chris Jones
2017: Patrick Mahomes.
2019: Mecole Hardman
2020: Clyde Edward Helaire, Willie Gay Jr
2021: Nick Bolton

No wonder they ended up being competitive when the were consistently getting value out of their best picks. You don't need a mega star each time. But when you are geting Easely who never plays, Jimmy G who sat on the bench for years, Malcolm Brown who was a flop, Jordan Richards who was a non factor most of the time, Cyrus Jones who had more value as a special teams guy, Derek Rivers who was a complete dud, Isiaiah Wynn who immediately fell apart with injuries and already was a bit undersized anyways, Sony Michel who had one decent season and we didn't value enough to keep (especially when we could have drafted Chubb at the same position who is a super elite RB that could have been a cornerstone for years), N'Keal Harry when you could have fallen ass backwards into anyone else at the position and been set for a few years in that draft, Joejuan Williams who was mid and then fell off with injuries after two years, Cole Strange who is complete garbage.... no **** the team is going to fall apart.

It's just crap to pretend the Patriots haven't had a drafting issue for a long time. Yeah other teams have issues to... the bad ones. The ones that are passing us and the consistently good ones, are actually getting far more value out of their top picks and finding more gems in later rounds.
1697086457582.gif
 

203Pat

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When we were 1-3, we needed to win 2 games to be back in contenrion. We lost one game and we were the worst team in the league, and have had terrible drafts for many years.

If we had beaten New Orleans, folks would be talking about probably not making the playoffs because of out tough schedule and injuries.
=========
One game has made all the difference. And yes, it was the worst game ever.
A win against New Orleans doesn't change the last 6-7 years of drafting. The bad drafting ended the dynasty and there is one man responsible for the drafts.
 


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