“defense is full of bad players“

[Oswlek]

You just can't do that kind of thing and get the kind of perfectly-tuned machine that Patricia likes to use.

So are you claiming that Bill irreparably damaged the chemistry of the defense by bringing in Gilmore?

 

[ViperGTS]

I don't think you understand what "getting their teeth kicked in" means. They definitely could have won that game.

Getting your teeth kicked in is what happens when Von Miller/Wolf/Ware are in the backfield at the snap and Fleming or Solder or Cannon haven't even budged yet. It's called TB getting hit the most he ever had. It's called every pass contested tightly.

That's getting your teeth kicked in. If that doesn't qualify in your opinion, then nothing will.

 

[K. Dog]

So are you claiming that Bill irreparably damaged the chemistry of the defense by bringing in Gilmore?

By signing him to a 5 year absurd contract: yes. And losing Nink, Long, and Ryan hurt badly too. Like I said in some other thread, that football genius and indomitable spirit characterizing the '16 team just seems gone.

Carlsen just lost his first match in ten years today.

 

[Oswlek]

By signing him to a 5 year absurd contract: yes. And losing Nink, Long, and Ryan hurt badly too. Like I said in some other thread, that football genius and indomitable spirit characterizing '16 just isn't there.

Carlsen just lost his first match in ten years today. None of us is perfect not even Bill.

Doesn't this brush up awfully close to, "they hate their coach"?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Everyone on that defense knows, for example, that Malcolm Butler did everything he was asked and more (much more) for the last three years. And everyone knows he's getting paid a guaranteed salary of about 5% or so of Gilmore's.

Stephon Gilmore CB $8,568,750

Malcolm Butler CB $3,910,000

Not exactly the 20:1 ratio (5%) that was written about. Not this year at least. (Long term?)

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am sorry for your profound pessimism.

Don't think BB and MP are working on their speeches to improve the team.

If players want to make more than “5% or so of Gilmore salary“ they better play their best. They know that.

Don't worry, it goes away briefly every time they win the Superv Bowl, you know, when they were with them all the way.......

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Actually I posted a number of analyses arguing the defense would likely perform poorly. In particular, I felt that the Gilmore addition would disrupt the chemistry. The kinds of missed coverages we saw against the Chiefs is a symptom of this poor chemistry.

Despite the handful of costly defensive breakdowns, PFF was actually impressed with the secondary. Gilmore earned an “above average” 83.5 grade and was absolved of blamed for the coverage breakdown on the Hill touchdown. He was targeted three times and allowed just one catch for four yards.

PFF actually blamed McCourty for Hill’s big play, yet still graded him an 83.9. Butler, meanwhile, earned an “average” 76 grade despite the fact that his effort felt worse than that; he gave up four completions on four targets – and committed a defensive pass interference penalty on the fifth. However, neither reception went for more than 18 yards as Butler allowed 31 receiving yards on the four catches against Kansas City.

I don't think our secondary will disappoint... provided our starters stay healthy. Hopefully, Gilmore will live up to his contract too!

 

[dafoe2016]

I'm not sure what to make of that defense.Probably not elite, but to soon to be "that bad", we have many top QBs waiting in line: Brees,Newton, Ryan, Big ben.So we will soon find out.

I'm still waiting to see if Matt Ryan will return to being Matt Ryan or if last year was the new Matty Ice. Picture Andy Dalton suddenly turning into Drew Brees. I'm not completely buying it yet.

 

[long distance]

Don't you get it? That's exactly what Butler DID. Butler's not the one who called out his teammates after getting burned on some play last year was it? Butler's the one who tackles running backs in the Super Bowl? Or rushes the quarterback? You can't play much better than Butler and you certainly can't work harder or be more of a team player. So how do you propose Patricia motivates his team to play for wins and not stats when they guy who did that more than any other cornerback is making 1/20 of some guy whose claim to fame is his 40 times and self-confidence?

Maybe if you make it more about Patriots and less about Butler (or any single player) your pessimism can head in more shallow waters..

 

[dafoe2016]

Getting your teeth kicked in is what happens when Von Miller/Wolf/Ware are in the backfield at the snap and Fleming or Solder or Cannon haven't even budged yet. It's called TB getting hit the most he ever had. It's called every pass contested tightly.

That's getting your teeth kicked in. If that doesn't qualify in your opinion, then nothing will.

What qualifies is getting blown out on the scoreboard. Can't believe I have to explain that. Yeah, the OLine played poorly. That's one facet of the game. The Pats were still right there with Denver in that game. Make a few more plays, Pats win the game and we are most likely talking about a possible threepeat this year.

 

[ViperGTS]

What qualifies is getting blown out on the scoreboard. Can't believe I have to explain that. Yeah, the OLine played poorly. That's one facet of the game. The Pats were still right there with Denver in that game. Make a few more plays, Pats win the game and we are most likely talking about a possible threepeat this year.

Yeah you have no real idea what you are talking about. It's not limited to the scoreboard. They got toasted by a decrepit TE for 2 TDs by a decrepit QB that had only thrown 1 or something the previous 5 or more weeks.

They were only in it due to some fortunate defensive plays as well as some fortunate passes. The fact they were even in it at all is a testament to their willpower as a team.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

You guys might want to consider subscribing to the Boston Sports Journal. I feel encouraged by Beddard's breakdown here:

Bedard's Breakdown: Patriots defense vs. Chiefs

I don't buy into the chatter there's a talent problem on this defense. Maybe they’re not great in certain spots (linebacker, for starters) or thin (edge), but this was not a case of the Patriots being pushed around or outclassed physically on the field. To my eyes, the debacle started in the preparation and then was doomed with poor communication on the field (and both are probably related).

Andy Reid, offensive coordinator Matt Nagy, and the Chiefs coaches simply prepared their team much better than Belichick and coordinator Matt Patricia did. The Chiefs, especially in the first game of the season, are one of the toughest teams to prepare for. Kansas City is hard to defend unless you have film to prepare with. The Patriots obviously were caught off guard by many of the things the Chiefs did, especially in regards to motion. Reid, being a dedicated old-school West Coast coach, is not normally a huge motion guy. Sure they do it for effect, but not as much as they showed against the Patriots. And instead of just being window dressing, this time Kansas City used motion to dictate the Patriots’ coverage, and then, the Chiefs took advantage.

Probably the biggest problem in this game was communication. It started with middle linebacker Kyle Van Noy and trickled down to the secondary. It will certainly get better as the season goes along, but the Patriots looked like they had never played together. Van Noy wasn’t exactly Jerod Mayo or Dont’a Hightower when it came to keeping the trains running on schedule. Right up until just about every snap, New England players were turning their heads and communicating, and it did not yield good results. Van Noy will be fine in that role against teams that don’t do as much as the Chiefs, but the coaches probably erred in giving him that role against this opponent (it should have been Hightower). Van Noy was out of his depth, and that shaky foundation brought the defense crumbling down.

The coaches continued their poor opener by thinking that Jordan Richards was ready to be a linebacker against a complicated team like the Chiefs, and cornerback Stephon Gilmorewas not where he needed to be in terms of reacting to plays either.

Too many changes for an opening game against a smart opponent. Should have gone with experience and smarts instead of being caught up in matchups. That led to three huge plays for the Chiefs. No one wants to hear it, but it you eliminate the three big plays, the Chiefs had 326 yards on 62 plays (5.3 yards per play). Not that terrible, and shows all is a long ways from being lost.​

 

[patsinthesnow]

PFF: (more quantitative than qualitative stats here)

Trey Flowers led all EDGE rushers this weekend with 6 hurries.
Adam Butler led all DTs this weekend with 4 hurries.

Deatrich Wise flashed in his limited time as well.

It's almost as if when we fix the blown coverages & play the pass rushing youngsters over Jordan Richards we'll be fine.

 

[luuked]

Actually I posted a number of analyses arguing the defense would likely perform poorly. In particular, I felt that the Gilmore addition would disrupt the chemistry. The kinds of missed coverages we saw against the Chiefs is a symptom of this poor chemistry.

In the history of the NFL, many, many teams have bet the team on some high-priced free agent with a long-term contract. When that free agent didn't pan out, the team could do poorly for a decade. A team could do more poorly than one would expect from the wasted cost alone. That's because of the affect on chemistry. Everyone on that defense knows, for example, that Malcolm Butler did everything he was asked and more (much more) for the last three years. And everyone knows he's getting paid a guaranteed salary of about 5% or so of Gilmore's. There is no inspiring speech that Patricia or Belichick can deliver that is likely to overturn this kind of arithmetic in the minds of the players.

I said before the season that I was profoundly pessimistic for this season. At this point, not only am I profoundly pessimistic for the season, but I could see the Gilmore situation affecting the next several years as well. And the fact that we lost the most brilliant and original non-QB offensive player of the decade (cue the chorus of Edelman-criticism) is the icing on the cake here.

When I watched the Patriots lose to the Chiefs, I constantly heard the announcers boast about the 40 times of our players. They've never done that, and it's about as bad a sign as one can have. We've become the team that boasts about 40 times while missing coverages. I saw this happening all throughout the preseason with the media and "fans" on here obsessing about combine scores of players: only losing teams do that actually.

For the love of god please just shut up. Shut up. SHUT UP with this ********.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, it isn't that they lost. They lost to Seattle last year but fought to the very end. They lost to KC in '14 but fought until the end.

There was no fight at the end of this one. None. That's the difference and why it's so alarming.

Edit: I almost forget. The AFCCG in Denver. Fought until the very, very end even though they were getting their teeth kicked in.

Not sure how you saw no fight.

 

[neuronet]

By signing him to a 5 year absurd contract: yes. And losing Nink, Long, and Ryan hurt badly too. Like I said in some other thread, that football genius and indomitable spirit characterizing the '16 team just seems gone.

Carlsen just lost his first match in ten years today.

Damn carlsen lost to some no-name dude from China?!! (admittedly I stopped following chess about 5 years ago so maybe he isn't no-name)

Losing Nink hurts a lot. I agree the toughness wasn't quite there from last season, and the players said the same. It's not like that's some permanent thing. They were rusty, from special teams up to QB and coaching staff they were playing pretty poorly without a lot of fire. They will be OK.

Careful of the Chicken Little syndrome. I know I don't want to be the Saints this weekend.

 

[Ross12]

My god...

So many new players.

Some will be coming back from IR around the bye

It takes time.

I'm saying it right now.

This team will not lose a game after Thanksgiving.

12-4.

..and yes, it means they will be 6-4.

I can get behind that prediction. There may be growing pains but I expect it all to come together for the stretch run as it almost always does.

I don't care much if they go 10-6 as long as they win the crap division and make it count in the postseason.

I just shudder to think of fan reaction to the Pats being 6-4...

 

[Bruins29]

I am not sure why this idiot troll KDog is allowed to post here. He is so stupid he dosent even know how much Malcom Butler makes yet all he does is argue that its tiny compared to Gilmore...

A real Patriots fan would know this. A real fan (as he claims) wouldn't have forgotten about Adelius Thomas's large contract. Obviously he is not a fan and is just here to ****-stir.

I have exposed him for the Ravens lover that he is. He is not made one attempt to deny that he is the KDog Ravens fan that has posted in 20 message boards.

Besides being a complete idiot and troll he is a gutless, spineless coward.

 

[Tony2046]

Not sure how you saw no fight.

How could you not see it??

"Fluttering passes" from an "old weak" arm.

"8-8"

"Just throw it to Cooks"

Plenty of Hawt Takes to see after a loss.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I can get behind that prediction. There may be growing pains but I expect it all to come together for the stretch run as it almost always does.

I just shudder to think of fan reaction to the Pats being 6-4...

This board will erupt but fans forget...

After 10 games..

01 5-5
02 5-5
05- 6-4
08 6-4

Since then there have been a bunch of 7-3s