Patriots Player Departure Gibby to the Cards

Wozzy said:

Just a terrible take…

Ellis was 2nd on the team in snaps at ILB after Spillane. Ellis was a starter, he started almost every game..

Prior to Milton Williams, Tonga, Spillane, Farmer and Landry missing time at the end of the season the Patriots had one of the best run defenses in the entire league. Just silly…

The Patriots D also held the best team in the entire NFL Seahawks without a TD for three quarters in the Super Bowl while our offense stunk up the joint and turned it over. Do you even watch these games?

Spillane was the Sam, Ellis was the Will… with everyone healthy this was a top five defense. You’re talking like this defense and LB group was bad. Come back to Earth, they had the best overall record in the NFL and played in a Super Bowl.

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They aren't bad, they are average overall and plus in the run game. However, a blue chip LBer that slots everyone down a spot would do wonders. That is just a fact. They will be playin much better teams this upcoming year as well. Draft should be edge/LB with the first 2 picks if thats the BPA.

Wozzy said:

Gibbens replaced Spillane when he got injured, he was weak. So they tried Tavai and he was slow. Neither was an optimal solution.

After that Gibbens and Tavai were used sparingly and the team elevated Muma to the active roster in the final three games of the regular season to get a better look at him.

Ellis started every game but two where he was dealing with illness.

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That is not what happened. Gibbens split time with Ellis and started and played over 80% of the snaps when Spillane was out.

Ellis played 506 snaps Gibbens played 491. Muma played 24 all mopping up in blowouts.
Everything you said here is wrong. Did you watch the games?

203Pat said:

Feel like you can find half a dozen Jack Gibbens' in the mid-rounds.

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So, we could have re-signed Gibbens and we should be able to use one of our 4ths to replace him and hope that player fit in as well as Gibbens did?

Then why not re-sign Gibbens?

I'm not buying.

Vrabel simply thinks that Gibbens just wasn't good enough to be on our 53-man squad. And yes, he'd rather have Britt (and perhaps Muma and Mapu) as backups to Spillane and Ellis).

DaBruinz said:

*ROFLMAO* What's a terrible take is your ridiculous response. You asking if I watch the games shows how moronic your statements are. I have watched every game over the past 25 years minus 2 where I was travelling...

I didn't say jack about the defense as a whole. I specifically focused on Elliss and the fact that he should NOT be a starter. He, in particular, was bad against the run and in the passing game. The only area he excelled in was rushing the passer. Clearly, facts don't matter to you.

The fact that he had 1 fewer missed tackle than Spillane despite playing 31% fewer snaps should be alarming to ANYONE with a modicum of football IQ. Clearly, you've suffered something that has caused yours to go on hiatus. So many of your takes have been absolute garbage recently.

The Run Defense was Top 5 DESPITE Elliss. Not because of him.

Do yourself a favor. Try reading what is ACTUALLY stated..This is the 2nd time with me where you have completely butchered what was said and made yourself look like bad.

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Ellis is one of our best defenders. His speed, athleticism, man coverage and ability to tackle in the open field tilts the field and allowed the defensive front to take chances. He erases mistakes.

The defense gave up the 6th fewest rushing yards in the NFL. Prior to injuries they allowed the fewest yards per rush in the entire NFL. Saying a starting LB played no part in that is laughable.

Your take that Ellis is a "problem" is a silly one. He is a problem... for the opposing offense.

Ring 6 said:

That is not what happened. Gibbens split time with Ellis and started and played over 80% of the snaps when Spillane was out.

Ellis played 506 snaps Gibbens played 491. Muma played 24 all mopping up in blowouts.
Everything you said here is wrong. Did you watch the games?

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Gibbens started in place of Spillane when he was injured at the end of the season, and Ellis when he missed games with an illness in the middle of it. Otherwise he was the main backup to both of them.

Had neither of them gotten hurt or sick, his snaps would have been less. Pretty simple.

Check out PFR, his starts are listed right there... and they just so happen to coincide with the two starters being dinged up.


It's exactly what happened.

ViperGTS said:

They aren't bad, they are average overall and plus in the run game. However, a blue chip LBer that slots everyone down a spot would do wonders. That is just a fact. They will be playin much better teams this upcoming year as well. Draft should be edge/LB with the first 2 picks if thats the BPA.

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Spillane was very good at the line of scrimmage when healthy, Ellis was very good behind him. They could have used better depth than Gibbens or Tavai, but it was what it was. This is why they moved on from both of them this offseason.

Spillane is getting older, they can certainly improve the depth with an eye on the future in the draft... but the two starters are pretty good.

I'll say this, the zone defense by the entire defense stunk last season... but Kevin Byard will fix that quickly. He's very familiar with Vrabel's defense, he'll line everyone up properly and QB the defensive backfield.

Wozzy said:

We should be excited to expand Chad Muma's role.

The kid is hyper athletic and could improve the ILB group mightily.

I think the Pats knew this and moved on from Gibbens, who was very limited.

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That is what I am hoping, Muma was a bit of a draft binky

dliverey44 said:

That is what I am hoping, Muma was a bit of a draft binky

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Athletically he's a stud and really strong. He also became available because a new regime came in down in Jacksonville... new GM and head coach.

That is a great thing for the Patriots. New regimes like starting over and often throw out the baby with the bathwater, they want their guys in there.

He's played a lot of special teams and did it well, he has some experience as a defender but probably hasn't scratched the surface there.

ViperGTS said:

Yep, which is why all the "experts" never list LB as a need. It's a major need.

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I’ve consistently said LB is as big a need as Edge. Maybe that’s why I’m not an expert.

n1997y said:

I’ve consistently said LB is as big a need as Edge. Maybe that’s why I’m not an expert.

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OK, I'm not an expert either.

INSIDE
For 2026, we have the same starters as last year. We had a fine Defense when Spillane and Elliss were the healthy starters. Some here disagree. Most do not. For now, Vrabel has chosen Britt, Muma and Mapu as the backups. I don't see why we should expect less than in 2025. There is a big HOWEVER. We need to develop top future replacements for Spillane and Elliss. And yes, that is serious real need, but one that is simply part of every year's turnover.

OUTSIDE
Yes, this is a MORE serious need. We have Jones, and Landry (coming back from injuries) as our starters. We are developing Ponder and have Swinson (who hasn't shown anything) who we mention becasuse we don't have anyone else. Vrabel signed Laketa before the draft (someone who would compete with Swinson).

Sure, I will feel much better if we were to sign a free agent or 4th round backup AND draft someone to rotate with Landry. But we aren't there now.

Good for him. That’s a pretty significant raise.

mgteich said:

So, we could have re-signed Gibbens and we should be able to use one of our 4ths to replace him and hope that player fit in as well as Gibbens did?

Then why not re-sign Gibbens?

I'm not buying.

Vrabel simply thinks that Gibbens just wasn't good enough to be on our 53-man squad. And yes, he'd rather have Britt (and perhaps Muma and Mapu) as backups to Spillane and Ellis).

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I would guess Vrabel and the staff think they could they could get similar production cheaper. Whether that is through the draft or a free agent they wouldn't have let him walk had they viewed him as a vital player.

Sciz said:

Good for him. That’s a pretty significant raise.

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The good news for Gibby is he got a raise, the bad news is he got it from the Cards. Not only is Bidwell the worst owner in the league but that D is in for some rough going. At least he'll get the opportunity to play a lot, file under; be careful what you wish for

Sciz said:

Good for him. That’s a pretty significant raise.

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We weren't interested at $3.5M

Ross12 said:

Hm. A little surprised. Athletically, he is just a JAG or worse, but he is smart and he knew Vrabel's system well. They also let Tavai go, so they just have Spillane and Elliss in the room now pretty much as far as guys that are capable of playing a lot of snaps.

Other guys in the room:
- Marte Mapu
- New signing KJ Britt
- Chad Muma

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Britt and Muma together earn less than Gibbens.

mgteich said:

Britt and Muma together earn less than Gibbens.

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Muma also has upside. I'm sure they looked at Gibbens, saw a guy who could never be a starting ILB, saw what Muma did in the final month of playing and went with the better cheaper option. Perpetual improvement should always be the goal.

Wozzy said:

Muma also has upside. I'm sure they looked at Gibbens, saw a guy who could never be a starting ILB, saw what Muma did in the final month of playing and went with the better cheaper option. Perpetual improvement should always be the goal.

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Gibbens was valuable in 2025 because he knew the system. Muma got to learn it while here for a bit last year and now throughout the offseason. Should be able to step up into Gibbens' backup LB role behind Elliss and Spillane now with a better grasp of the system, for less money, with more upside.

Wozzy said:

Muma also has upside. I'm sure they looked at Gibbens, saw a guy who could never be a starting ILB, saw what Muma did in the final month of playing and went with the better cheaper option. Perpetual improvement should always be the goal.

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Ross12 said:

Gibbens was valuable in 2025 because he knew the system. Muma got to learn it while here for a bit last year and now throughout the offseason. Should be able to step up into Gibbens' backup LB role behind Elliss and Spillane now with a better grasp of the system, for less money, with more upside.

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What upside? 3 Teams in 5 years. He was a scrap-heap signing because the Pats had injuries and Tavai's family Illness issues.

Muma played 24 defensive snaps and 43 special teams snaps over 3 regular season games for the Pats in the regular season. He dressed for all 4 play-off games. Saw 5 defensive snaps in total while taking 88 special teams snaps.

Muma is literally a Camp Body who will only make the team if he beats out others on special teams. Expecting him to take 200-500 Defensive snaps is wishful thinking. JAX thought so highly of him that they jettisoned him at the end of Training camp last year. That's how Indy grabbed him. Indy didn't think enough of him on their 53 after 9 weeks.

Spillane is 30 and signed through 2027.
Ellis is signed through this year. Only reason I think he wasn't cut is because of the guaranteed money.

Britt is on a 1 yr deal.
Muma's deal is only through 2026.
Otis Reese and Amari Gainer are on 1yr deals.

I fully expect them to add 1-2 LB draft picks and another 1-2 UDFA LB who will challenge Elliss, Britt, Muma, and Reese for the LB spots behind Spillane. No. I'm not saying they'll have 4 rookies behind Spillane. I'm saying that I expect up to 4 rookies LBs who could push for spots on the team.

mgteich said:

Britt and Muma together earn less than Gibbens.

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And together they aren’t as good. Yay for us.

DaBruinz said:

What upside? 3 Teams in 5 years. He was a scrap-heap signing because the Pats had injuries and Tavai's family Illness issues.

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Muma was on one team for three years, Jacksonville, a new regime came in and cleaned house.

Last season he was on two teams as he bounced around before potentially finding a home here. He earned his way onto the active roster as Gibbens and Tavai failed to impress when pressed into starting duty.

Muma has been in the league 4 years, so he couldn't rightly be on "3 teams in 5 years." I think this is a case of DaBruinz leaping to disagree with Wozzy rather than knowing what he's actually talking about.

Muma is really athletic and strong. That's the potential upside the two guys he's replacing don't have.

Oh yeah, and Gibbens was a restricted free agent, the Pats had all the money in the world and the right of first refusal. If they wanted to retain him they could have... they didn't even tender him. They didn't want him... what does that tell you?

DaBruinz said:

Muma played 24 defensive snaps and 43 special teams snaps over 3 regular season games for the Pats in the regular season. He dressed for all 4 play-off games. Saw 5 defensive snaps in total while taking 88 special teams snaps.

Muma is literally a Camp Body who will only make the team if he beats out others on special teams. Expecting him to take 200-500 Defensive snaps is wishful thinking.

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You just described Jack Gibbens career prior to coming to New England.

DaBruinz said:

JAX thought so highly of him that they jettisoned him at the end of Training camp last year. That's how Indy grabbed him. Indy didn't think enough of him on their 53 after 9 weeks.

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What you failed to mention is how Jacksonville had two healthy absolute stud inside linebackers in Foyesade Oluokun and Devin Lloyd already. Pretty pertinent information. Hard for a rookie to garner starts with a two time NFL tackle leader and an All Pro in front of him.

The Patriots cut Troy Brown, he spent several weeks out of the NFL before the Patriots finally re-signed him in October of 1994. Did he suck?

DaBruinz said:

Spillane is 30 and signed through 2027.
Ellis is signed through this year. Only reason I think he wasn't cut is because of the guaranteed money.

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That's why Ellis was a starter... because of contract?

Silly...

DaBruinz said:

Britt is on a 1 yr deal.
Muma's deal is only through 2026.
Otis Reese and Amari Gainer are on 1yr deals.

I fully expect them to add 1-2 LB draft picks and another 1-2 UDFA LB who will challenge Elliss, Britt, Muma, and Reese for the LB spots behind Spillane. No. I'm not saying they'll have 4 rookies behind Spillane. I'm saying that I expect up to 4 rookies LBs who could push for spots on the team.

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I fully expect them to add to the position in the draft also, the more talented bodies you have in camp and higher level of competition the better. Muma and Ellis are talented... Gibbens and Tavai much less so. That's why they're gone already.