Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training camp

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Didnt Seau retire and we signed him immediately? Im confused.

Seau was not under contract, he was a free agent. i dont think he officially retired. He announced his intention to retire, did not actually retire and as a free agent could sign with any team.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

If he was a high characte rguy, a winner, he would believe the team has a chance and would be the leader to improving the team.
What you want me to believe is that he has decided that the teammates he has fought sidebyside with all these years are losers and hes a winner, and he needs to get away from them bums so he can get the ring he deserves. That is a loser. A winner would feel obligated to finish the job, no matter how difficult with the teamates that have been fighting with him, not abandon them because he thinks he can, and then go to a team that can win without him so he can get a ring on their backs.

I can't help myself.

This is the same team that traded one of their best players away weeks into the season and admitted to be rebuilding. Sorry, I'm with Jason and I'd want out.

Be good Andy - I gotta role.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Ok, Bro. I can't argue this anymore.

Well see what happens with Jason. I'm sure he won't come here, but it would be nice.

As I said I dont want him under any circumstances.
But, if he does manipualte a trade, I will make a friendly bet with you that he makes renegotiating his contract a condition. When that happens you can tell me what you think abuot his character and that his motives are honorable.

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Seau was not under contract, he was a free agent. i dont think he officially retired. He announced his intention to retire, did not actually retire and as a free agent could sign with any team.

ah thx, that clears it up. Yea JT has a few seasons left on his contract. Best case scenario i guess is the dolphins cut him so they wont have to pay his huge salary, then he comes here the next day and owns everyone.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I can't help myself.

This is the same team that traded one of their best players away weeks into the season and admitted to be rebuilding. Sorry, I'm with Jason and I'd want out.

Be good Andy - I gotta role.

You do realize that Taylor was on the field--and in the lockerrom--contributing to the losing that caused them to have to rebuild right?
I just hate when a person is part of failure then tries to distance themselves from it as if they were great and everyone around them sucked. don't abandon the guy you asked to play their hearts out so you could win, lead them.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

ah thx, that clears it up. Yea JT has a few seasons left on his contract. Best case scenario i guess is the dolphins cut him so they wont have to pay his huge salary, then he comes here the next day and owns everyone.

Best case scenario is he reports to the Dolphins, shuts his mouth and plays football. Worst case scenario to me is that he becomes a Patriot./

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

If he was a high characte rguy, a winner, he would believe the team has a chance and would be the leader to improving the team.
What you want me to believe is that he has decided that the teammates he has fought sidebyside with all these years are losers and hes a winner, and he needs to get away from them bums so he can get the ring he deserves. That is a loser. A winner would feel obligated to finish the job, no matter how difficult with the teamates that have been fighting with him, not abandon them because he thinks he can, and then go to a team that can win without him so he can get a ring on their backs.

The players on the current Dolphins team are not the players he "fought side by side with all these years", by a long shot. Furthermore, the Dolphins made their position about all those players crystal clear when they let Thomas walk. Blaming Taylor is simply getting it wrong.

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Best case scenario is he reports to the Dolphins, shuts his mouth and plays football. Worst case scenario to me is that he becomes a Patriot./

delusional.

do you even have any idea how bad Taylor would r@pe here on the pats playing for a ring? Just look at what Moss and Dillon did. Our D would be insane with Taylor here.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

The players on the current Dolphins team are not the players he "fought side by side with all these years", by a long shot. Furthermore, the Dolphins made their position about all those players crystal clear when they let Thomas walk. Blaming Taylor is simply getting it wrong.

OK so Taylor won when I wasnt looking?
He was part of a team that went 1-15. If Iwere to even consider wanting him here, I would have to assume it tore him up to go through that, that he worked his @ss off to prevent it, that he was a leader of that team and asked them to sacriifice for the team, and that he takes responsibility for his part in 1-15. If all of those assumptions are correct, you wouldn't abandon off-season workouts to be on dancing with the stars, and bail on your teammates to go somewhere else where winning would be EASIER.
Yes, those are his teammates he wants to leave behind.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

delusional.

do you even have any idea how bad Taylor would r@pe here on the pats playing for a ring? Just look at what Moss and Dillon did. Our D would be insane with Taylor here.

Nope. Dont want overrated prima donas, who are one-dimensional, dont fit our system, are bad teammates, and react to difficulties by asking to be allowed to run away.

Let me make sure I understand this. Bill Parcells has a problem with his employee Jason Taylor and his attitude, and you would like Bill Belichick to throw open his arms and ask him to come play for the kinder, gentler Patriots?

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Andy, Randy Moss showed a hell of a lot less character than Jason Taylor is currently showing by flat out quitting on the field in Oakland.

Do you want Moss off the Patriots so we can have the All-Character team you are looking to assemble?

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Nope. Dont want overrated prima donas, who are one-dimensional, dont fit our system, are bad teammates, and react to difficulties by asking to be allowed to run away.

Let me make sure I understand this. Bill Parcells has a problem with his employee Jason Taylor and his attitude, and you would like Bill Belichick to throw open his arms and ask him to come play for the kinder, gentler Patriots?

you're being unreasonable. Taylor has been playing for 10+ years for the fish, and has been a loyal employee and gave them everything he had, and the fish never went anywhere cause the "employees" surrounding him stunk. If you want to move on in your profession to reach higher goals what is wrong with that? Taylor doesnt have much time left to play he is getting old. He wants a chance at winning what he does as a profession, win a superbowl, before its too late. Your being to harsh on him like he should be some kind of drone and do nothing except what the company says. Sounds like dictatorship to me.

Taylor is not overated hes a probowl calibur player whenever he wants to be, he can play in a 3-4, he can rush the passer with the best of them. He would be a stud for us.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Andy, Randy Moss showed a hell of a lot less character than Jason Taylor is currently showing by flat out quitting on the field in Oakland.

Do you want Moss off the Patriots so we can have the All-Character team you are looking to assemble?

You have a point. Moss is obviously an exception to my opinion. I wouldnt give him back, it worked out, but I wouldn't go looking for it to work out again.
Also, there is another big difference. What is Taylor really going to add? We dont need to upgrade Mike Vrabel and Adalius Thomas. Moss upgraded Reche Caldwell.
If Moss were not the most talented player at his position in the NFL, and we didn'thave need at that spot, he wouldn't have been brought in anyway.
There is absolutely no doubt that Moss' character is far from a plus. His overwhelming talent and the fact that being allowed to play with Tom Brady tempered his attitude issues made up for that. I don't see what Taylor adds to the team that overcomes the detraction of adding a guy who we dont need who thinks he is better than he is and isnt really a good fit for our system.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Nope. Dont want overrated prima donas, who are one-dimensional, dont fit our system, are bad teammates, and react to difficulties by asking to be allowed to run away.

Let me make sure I understand this. Bill Parcells has a problem with his employee Jason Taylor and his attitude, and you would like Bill Belichick to throw open his arms and ask him to come play for the kinder, gentler Patriots?

Andy, I'm sorry but I've been down here watching the Phins for too long year in year out as a Pats fan. The reality is, JT is an exceptional character guy, a 110% every play guy, a smart defensive player, and a lead by example and keep your mouth shut locker room guy. This guy has put up with playing for a sh!t franchise for years, where the FO showed, year after Huizenga ridden year, that he cared more about football than the horsesh!t politics and money. This guy busts his ass on every play even when his team sucks, trades away it's best players, and hires nincompoops to run the place. Wayne is a cancer to every team he's been around, yet JT has stuck through it until he realized there was just no more hope, and finally realized, after being disrespected by BP and Ireland as they cleaned house, that he didn't need to prove anything to anyone from a character standpoint and just wanted to win. Once they gave away Zach, JT was done IMO with this franchise (disenfranchise?). It was, after all, his brother in law and best friend who they let go after one season of injury. There isn't a team in the league who wouldn't benefit from having Taylor play for them, 3-4 or 4-3. Period, end of story. This guy has 3+ years in his tank if there are other people around who give a crap about the game and winning, probably more. He's never had a serious injury, there's no reason this guy doesn't play until he's Seau's age with a supporting cast who care about football. What you miss is how demoralizing Huizenga and south Florida pro football can be. They flat out sell everything that might help then demand you give sh!t up for the franchise. I don't care how competitive you are on a day in day out basis, that takes it out of you. If we can get this guy (and I'll flat out go on record as saying we can't because Parcells would have to be the most ******ed man on the planet to allow his new QB to face a pissed off, motivated Taylor 2 times a year) for a 2nd, ANY TEAM would be foolish not to. I don't care what you think you see from the outside on casual appearances, this guy is a monster and would help any team win that wanted to and had even just 1 or 2 character guys around. Hell, even when they sucked he and Zach whooped it up. But you want to point to last year, where Cameron and Huizenga basically sh!t all over the team and its veterans, as if he somehow is a bad character guy because of it. By your logic, a disgruntled Dillon in Cinci with a horrid front office/ownership would also be a 'bad character guy' and we know that to be not true, and JT is a higher motor, and higher character guy imo than Dillon was on his Baptism Day. That's just flat out wrong, sorry. I can't stand the Phins but this guy is a superstud and a 2nd round pick (which I don't think it would take) would be a bargain. He could be twice as impactful as Seau for 3-5 more years rather than 2-3 years. If he were available to us, and I don't think for a second he would be, it would be a HUGE mistake to not give up a 3rd or 4th as has been speculated would take him, to get this guy.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

you're being unreasonable. Taylor has been playing for 10+ years for the fish, and has been a loyal employee and gave them everything he had, and the fish never went anywhere cause the "employees" surrounding him stunk. If you want to move on in your profession to reach higher goals what is wrong with that? Taylor doesnt have much time left to play he is getting old. He wants a chance at winning what he does as a profession, win a superbowl, before its too late. Your being to harsh on him like he should be some kind of drone and do nothing except what the company says. Sounds like dictatorship to me.

Taylor is not overated hes a probowl calibur player whenever he wants to be, he can play in a 3-4, he can rush the passer with the best of them. He would be a stud for us.

Wait a minute. Now you are telling me that those Dolphins teams that were 'pre-season favorites' many times and always underachived always sucked?
What I am saying is that Jason Taylor is part of that team. He is part of the reason they accomplished whatever they did or failed toaccomlish it. A true 'winner' believes he will be the reason his team wins. A true winner doesnt say 'ah, we suck let me bailout'.

I think you are also saying that since he spent 10 years not refusing to do his job that it makes it ok to do that in his 11th? I dont understand. If there is so much value and character in what he has done for 10 years, why is it not wrong for him to refuse to do his job now?

Here is my point, maybe I can explain it better.
When you are part of team, or any organization, if you are COMMITTED to what you do, when the going gets tough you try harder. When things are most difficult you take it upon yourself to be the one that makes the difference. I just have no respect for someone who claims they have that commitment, and then when things get tough, they think about themselves and easily walk away from the failure they were just a part of.
If I am Jason Taylor I take a lot more pride in making myself accountable to leading the resurection of my franchise that to go somewhere else to a team ready to win without me and grab my ring. He is acting like the child who is losing the game so he takes his ball and goes home.

But I want to make sure I understand. You think that Bill Parcells is wrong to expect Taylor to honor his contract, live up to the amount of money he is paid, and the respect he has been given by showing up, working hard, and being the example for the young teamates he is trying to build into a team, and Taylor is right to say the Dolphins suck, I dont want ot do any of those things so Iwont abide by my contract and will stay away until you let me leave?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Andy, I'm sorry but I've been down here watching the Phins for too long year in year out as a Pats fan. The reality is, JT is an exceptional character guy, a 110% every play guy, a smart defensive player, and a lead by example and keep your mouth shut locker room guy. This guy has put up with playing for a sh!t franchise for years, where the FO showed, year after Huizenga ridden year, that he cared more about football than the horsesh!t politics and money. This guy busts his ass on every play even when his team sucks, trades away it's best players, and hires nincompoops to run the place. Wayne is a cancer to every team he's been around, yet JT has stuck through it until he realized there was just no more hope, and finally realized, after being disrespected by BP and Ireland as they cleaned house, that he didn't need to prove anything to anyone from a character standpoint and just wanted to win. Once they gave away Zach, JT was done IMO with this franchise (disenfranchise?). It was, after all, his brother in law and best friend who they let go after one season of injury. There isn't a team in the league who wouldn't benefit from having Taylor play for them, 3-4 or 4-3. Period, end of story. This guy has 3+ years in his tank if there are other people around who give a crap about the game and winning, probably more. He's never had a serious injury, there's no reason this guy doesn't play until he's Seau's age with a supporting cast who care about football. What you miss is how demoralizing Huizenga and south Florida pro football can be. They flat out sell everything that might help then demand you give sh!t up for the franchise. I don't care how competitive you are on a day in day out basis, that takes it out of you. If we can get this guy (and I'll flat out go on record as saying we can't because Parcells would have to be the most ******ed man on the planet to allow his new QB to face a pissed off, motivated Taylor 2 times a year) for a 2nd, ANY TEAM would be foolish not to. I don't care what you think you see from the outside on casual appearances, this guy is a monster and would help any team win that wanted to and had even just 1 or 2 character guys around. Hell, even when they sucked he and Zach whooped it up. But you want to point to last year, where Cameron and Huizenga basically sh!t all over the team and its veterans, as if he somehow is a bad character guy because of it. By your logic, a disgruntled Dillon in Cinci with a horrid front office/ownership would also be a 'bad character guy' and we know that to be not true, and JT is a higher motor, and higher character guy imo than Dillon was on his Baptism Day. That's just flat out wrong, sorry. I can't stand the Phins but this guy is a superstud and a 2nd round pick (which I don't think it would take) would be a bargain. He could be twice as impactful as Seau for 3-5 more years rather than 2-3 years. If he were available to us, and I don't think for a second he would be, it would be a HUGE mistake to not give up a 3rd or 4th as has been speculated would take him, to get this guy.

I just wholeheartedly disagree.
I think its foolish to say that Parcells disrespected Taylor. When? After he said FU Dolphins? Or after he refuse to show up for offseason workouts so he could dance?

Bill Parcells walks in and wants to rebuild a team with high character, committed, no-nonsense football players. He wants to outwork everyone else.
Taylor response that change in phiolosphy is 'let me out of here please'.
You say that the organization failed Taylor? If that was the case wouldn't he be embracing the new tougher regime? Or was he more comfortable in the country club atmosphere as long as he got some numbers and attention?

Think about this. Bill Parcells who takes football, discipline, hard work and effort as seriously or more seriously than anyone has identified Jason Taylor as the guy he has the problem with.
Are you telling me Parcells standards are too high and BBs should be less?
Does it not say something to you about Taylor that when Parcells comes in to roll up his sleeves and fix things NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN Taylor wants out? Why didnt he want out when they hired Can't Cameron? Why was he happy with the team underachieving under Wanstadt? Why didnt he want out after the Saban fiasco?
The real truth is that Parcells walked in and raised the bar. Parcells walked in and wanted Taylor to lead by example rather than get special 'star' treatment. Suddenly after 10 year Taylor doesn tlike losing? Too much coincidence there for me.

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Wait a minute. Now you are telling me that those Dolphins teams that were 'pre-season favorites' many times and always underachived always sucked?
What I am saying is that Jason Taylor is part of that team. He is part of the reason they accomplished whatever they did or failed toaccomlish it. A true 'winner' believes he will be the reason his team wins. A true winner doesnt say 'ah, we suck let me bailout'.

I think you are also saying that since he spent 10 years not refusing to do his job that it makes it ok to do that in his 11th? I dont understand. If there is so much value and character in what he has done for 10 years, why is it not wrong for him to refuse to do his job now?

Here is my point, maybe I can explain it better.
When you are part of team, or any organization, if you are COMMITTED to what you do, when the going gets tough you try harder. When things are most difficult you take it upon yourself to be the one that makes the difference. I just have no respect for someone who claims they have that commitment, and then when things get tough, they think about themselves and easily walk away from the failure they were just a part of.
If I am Jason Taylor I take a lot more pride in making myself accountable to leading the resurection of my franchise that to go somewhere else to a team ready to win without me and grab my ring. He is acting like the child who is losing the game so he takes his ball and goes home.

But I want to make sure I understand. You think that Bill Parcells is wrong to expect Taylor to honor his contract, live up to the amount of money he is paid, and the respect he has been given by showing up, working hard, and being the example for the young teamates he is trying to build into a team, and Taylor is right to say the Dolphins suck, I dont want ot do any of those things so Iwont abide by my contract and will stay away until you let me leave?

The dolphins were pretty good in the early Taylor years, they had madison, surtain, and Thomas in their prime, their D was insane. Still they didnt win anything, and the franchise degraded rapidly.

You talk about commitment thats funny theres probably no player in the league that has been more committed than Taylor to the fish. Why should Taylor be committed to a company after 10 plus years who dont produce? That is moronic. He is not obligated to live or die as a fish, players get traded and cut all the time. What do you say when a company (aka a football franchise) signs a player to a big long term contract then cuts their *** before the deal is up? The dolphins have done this to thousands of players but you defend them like they are mount olympus or something?

Taylor deserves a shot at a ring, its what he does as a human being. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to reach the pinnacle of what you do in life.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

you're being unreasonable. Taylor has been playing for 10+ years for the fish, and has been a loyal employee and gave them everything he had, and the fish never went anywhere cause the "employees" surrounding him stunk. If you want to move on in your profession to reach higher goals what is wrong with that? Taylor doesnt have much time left to play he is getting old. He wants a chance at winning what he does as a profession, win a superbowl, before its too late. Your being to harsh on him like he should be some kind of drone and do nothing except what the company says. Sounds like dictatorship to me.

Taylor is not overated hes a probowl calibur player whenever he wants to be, he can play in a 3-4, he can rush the passer with the best of them. He would be a stud for us.

I'm being totally reasonable. Everything Isaid is backed with reason and explanation. You may not agree with my reasons but that does not make mine wrong.

I believe that someone who is willing to walk away from an unfinished job because it gets hard lacks character.
I dont think you will disagree that the job Taylor was trying to accomplish in Miami was unfinished, and right now is the hardest part of getting there.

Apparently we disagree on what character traits we value. I can assure you my valuation of character is far from unreasonable. It may differ from yours, but placing the bar at a different high of standards is not a matter of reasonable or unreasonable, or something to argue about.

By my value system Jason Taylor has shown he lacks character. I'd rather not have him on the Patriots because I cannot see how he could add more than his character will detract from the mentality this team has built. If you judge his character on a different scale, you have every right to do so.

 

[BRiZ]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

I'm being totally reasonable. Everything Isaid is backed with reason and explanation. You may not agree with my reasons but that does not make mine wrong.

I believe that someone who is willing to walk away from an unfinished job because it gets hard lacks character.
I dont think you will disagree that the job Taylor was trying to accomplish in Miami was unfinished, and right now is the hardest part of getting there.

Apparently we disagree on what character traits we value. I can assure you my valuation of character is far from unreasonable. It may differ from yours, but placing the bar at a different high of standards is not a matter of reasonable or unreasonable, or something to argue about.

By my value system Jason Taylor has shown he lacks character. I'd rather not have him on the Patriots because I cannot see how he could add more than his character will detract from the mentality this team has built. If you judge his character on a different scale, you have every right to do so.

thats not the case he is not walking away because it get too hard he is walking away because the team he plays for is pathetic, and he wants to win a championship and his time is running out.

Taylor has one of the best characters in the league, he has proven that over the years. Just because he wants a chance to win a championship and asks for a trade doesnt devalue his character in anyway for me, if i were in his position i would do the same thing. The dolphins are rebuilding, they were 1-15 last year THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. You are being rediculous imo.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Re: Jason Taylor situation heats up considerably: no workouts, minicamp, or training

Also, there is another big difference. What is Taylor really going to add? We dont need to upgrade Mike Vrabel and Adalius Thomas. Moss upgraded Reche Caldwell.

You don't think a Vrabel/Adalius/Mayo/Taylor starting LB core is significantly better than a Vrabel/Bruschi (or Hobson)/Mayo/Adalius LB core? Not a Caldwell to Moss upgrade but a very big one, at least in my opinion.

Big, fast, athletic, strong tackling, pass rushing ability...this teams linebackers would be absolutely absurd with Taylor starting over Bruschi or Hobson.