Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend

[NoCal Patriot]

So need didn't factor into it?

Well thank goodness that, unlike every other year, LBs represented value on the board right when we were picking in a year when we had a high need for LBs.

Joe, I think that We all fall into a trap by trying to pigeon hole Bill Belichick.Remember there was a time when all of "The Experts" said that BB never drafts a Running Back early? Well that ended when Bill took Lawrence Marooney.I think Linebackers are now that flavor of the month.The Patriots certainly need Young Blood at Linebacker and it certainly was a "need" but I don't see either guy as a reach

 

[Patslifer]

Does anyone remember when all the experts said we reached on Mankins? BB worked with LT(one of the greatest lb's ever). I would think the guy knows a thing or two about lb's.

I think Mayo is going to be a stud, and I think down the road Crable will be a very good player. Look at his frame, when he matures and add's some size he will be a beast.

 

[RayClay]

Ray ,I never said that Sedrick Ellis wasn't great value.I just think that on this occasion need and value happened to match for The Patriots.

Not really. If that were the case, they wouldn't have traded down, would they?

I think they didn't want to pay high picks to sit, so they waited until Bru and Seau were near retirement.

Had they been able to pick up a hot FA or two, maybe the value at LB in this draft would have seemed less valuable.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

...because BB and Pioli picked them.

I know it's simple... probably too simple, but in BB ("Bioli") and his team, I trust (when it comes to football).

 

[Kontradiction]

Mayo definitely contributes this year, starting on 3rd downs and playing as many reps as a starter or starting at 1 linebacker position (thank you, versatility.)

Crable plays special teams and listens to people make Crable/Vrabel jokes for a year or two, and develops... unless he surprises everyone.

I don't think Mayo was selected to sit, even given that the Pats have a history of sitting rookies and not just at LB. ("Callin all cahs callin all farkin cahs, be on the lookout for Chad Johnson, last sighted in 2005...") Okay, so Chad had a chance or two... but the puppies are all on short leashes in NE. Still, we picked Mayo at 10, not in the 30s where we got CJ. He's expected to play.

Of course all we can do is argue about it until training camp... and I hope we get Mrs. B info this year, because that's the best prognosticating info we get on this roster (plus it makes it feel like you're there, but without all the shvitzing).

PFnV

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but weren't you the one who was vehemently against drafting Mayo on day 1? Or was that PatsFanInPa? I believe someone around here actually has it as their signature as well...

 

[castlelong1]

He's never had picks this high without another pressing need. There is a difference between 7 and 32 Or even as some believe about Mayo, 15 and 32.

Yes he had high draft picks before,but needed something else real bad.

 

[JoeSixPat]

...because BB and Pioli picked them.

I know it's simple... probably too simple, but in BB ("Bioli") and his team, I trust (when it comes to football).

Are you talking about the same people who picked Monty Biesel as well?

In that case they had a veteran with a track record and tons of NFL footage to watch.

In this case they made a pick based on combine results and college film... considerably more "blind" than they were in Biesel's case.

I'm not expecting BB to be perfect - he himself admits that he's very demanding on his defense and LBs especially, and not everyone "gets" his system.

I think it'd just be wise of everyone to temper their expectations of these guys. 1st round or 3rd round they've got to earn their playing time, no matter what rave reviews they get in fan forums.

I think that BB knows his system is demanding and I think he's had serious doubts of the ability of rookies to "get it" in the past, and has declined to draft LBs because of that. Yet this year it is very clear that need WAS a factor, likely prompting BB to take a chance with a high pick on an LB.

 

[Patslifer]

Are you talking about the same people who picked Monty Biesel as well?

In that case they had a veteran with a track record and tons of NFL footage to watch.

In this case they made a pick based on combine results and college film... considerably more "blind" than they were in Biesel's case.

I'm not expecting BB to be perfect - he himself admits that he's very demanding on his defense and LBs especially, and not everyone "gets" his system.

I think it'd just be wise of everyone to temper their expectations of these guys. 1st round or 3rd round they've got to earn their playing time, no matter what rave reviews they get in fan forums.

I think that BB knows his system is demanding and I think he's had serious doubts of the ability of rookies to "get it" in the past, and has declined to draft LBs because of that. Yet this year it is very clear that need WAS a factor, likely prompting BB to take a chance with a high pick on an LB.

I think you should send you resume to Bill Belichick. I'm, sure he could use someone of your caliber for drafts and player evaluations, Mayo is a fantastic player, and Crabel has a very high cieling. You have obviously curbed your expectations for both players, be happy with that, and stop raining on everyones parade.

This coaching staff also picked guys like Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, Maroney, Seymour, Bruschi, Meriweather, Mankins and a slew of other great picks. I think they have a clue what they are doing, and I highly doubt they weaken the team by drafting a guy they where not sure could play in our system.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think you should send you resume to Bill Belichick. I'm, sure he could use someone of your caliber for drafts and player evaluations, Mayo is a fantastic player, and Crabel has a very high cieling. You have obviously curbed your expectations for both players, be happy with that, and stop raining on everyones parade.

This coaching staff also picked guys like Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, Maroney, Seymour, Bruschi, Meriweather, Mankins and a slew of other great picks. I think they have a clue what they are doing, and I highly doubt they weaken the team by drafting a guy they where not sure could play in our system.

I think you should temper your sarcasm.

Those of us who have been following the team for decades know that fans typically get carried away with player assessments, and in turn declare them busts when they fail to immediately live up to those expectations. A little common sense now will limit that sort of potential panic later.

I'm simply offering the good advice to actually wait until these guys play in real games that count before declaring the draft an overwhelming success.

This would be a pretty boring and uninformative forum if we had only Kool-aid drinkers who are so simple minded as to assume that a player is a lock just because Belichick picked a player - whether its Biesel or Mayo.

Unlike you - who have already declared Mayo a "fantastic player" without seeing him in an NFL uniform, let alone play a snap on an NFL field - I simply recognize that they might well be everything we hope - or they might fail to live up to the high expectations set for them among fans.

Given the fact that you already KNOW what sort of a player Mayo will be in the NFL, I'd say it's you who should "send you resume to Bill Belichick as I'm, sure he could use someone of your caliber for drafts and player evaluations."

 

[Patslifer]

I think you should temper your sarcasm.

Those of us who have been following the team for decades know that fans typically get carried away with player assessments, and in turn declare them busts when they fail to immediately live up to those expectations. A little common sense now will limit that sort of potential panic later.

I'm simply offering the good advice to actually wait until these guys play in real games that count before declaring the draft an overwhelming success.

This would be a pretty boring and uninformative forum if we had only Kool-aid drinkers who are so simple minded as to assume that a player is a lock just because Belichick picked a player - whether its Biesel or Mayo.

Unlike you - who have already declared Mayo a "fantastic player" without seeing him in an NFL uniform, let alone play a snap on an NFL field - I simply recognize that they might well be everything we hope - or they might fail to live up to the high expectations set for them among fans.

Given the fact that you already KNOW what sort of a player Mayo will be in the NFL, I'd say it's you who should "send you resume to Bill Belichick as I'm, sure he could use someone of your caliber for drafts and player evaluations."

Mayo was a fantastic player in college (just as I said). Why isn't Mayo a fantastic player, because he isn't a linemen or a dt? Who says I want a forum full of kool aid drinkers? We understand your point, but it is a bit absurd to tell people to hold off on thier excitment. Who wants a forum full of negative people telling fans to calm down all the time? PATSFAN FORUMS, am I missing something?

I never said Mayo would be a fantastic player in the pro's, I said he was a fantastic player (which he was in college). I would suggest you stop telling me what you think I said (to fit your agenda), and respond to what I actually said. Mayo and Crable are the type of players some of us have been waiting to see for a long time. I have had season tickets for 20 years, and I am thrilled with this years draft. I trust Belichick, and he is right far more then he is wrong. Your asessment is no more valid than a person who had the same type of asessment in a posative way. So, you should hold off on your doubts and negative garbage. As I said before, send your resume to Bill Belichik, and let him know how you feel about how he drafts lb's.

Telling people to calm down because they are excited about drafting two linebackers is pointless. Why don't you calm down with telling us how these players will never work out!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Mayo was a fantastic player in college (just as I said). Why isn't Mayo a fantastic player, because he isn't a linemen or a dt? Who says I want a forum full of kool aid drinkers? We understand your point, but it is a bit absurd to tell people to hold off on thier excitment. Who wants a forum full of negative people telling fans to calm down all the time? PATSFAN FORUMS, am I missing something?

I never said Mayo would be a fantastic player in the pro's, I said he was a fantastic player (which he was in college). I would suggest you stop telling me what you think I said (to fit your agenda), and respond to what I actually said. Mayo and Crable are the type of players some of us have been waiting to see for a long time. I have had season tickets for 20 years, and I am thrilled with this years draft. I trust Belichick, and he is right far more then he is wrong. Your asessment is no more valid than a person who had the same type of asessment in a posative way. So, you should hold off on your doubts and negative garbage. As I said before, send your resume to Bill Belichik, and let him know how you feel about how he drafts lb's.

Telling people to calm down because they are excited about drafting two linebackers is pointless. Why don't you calm down with telling us how these players will never work out!

I see - you misunderstood the nature of this thread. We're all talking about whether Mayo and Crable will be good PROFESSIONAL football players. Not how "fantastic" they were in college.

But to be accurate, I didn't misquote you - You didn't say "Mayo WAS a fantastic player IN COLLEGE". So don't attempt to tell people I'm twisting your words. You said "Mayo is a fantastic player" and everyone can see that. Changing it in the next post and adding "as I said" isn't going to fool anyone. You just failed to make clear you were only remarking about how well he'd do if he were still in college, while the rest of us are really more focused on how he'll do in the Pros.

It is good to know that you think he was a "fantastic player" in college - though I was generally under the impression that very few people who were BAD in college were drafted last Saturday, but thanks for clearing that up for others.

Given the topic of this thread and this forum, I think you can probably understand that when you said "Mayo is a fantastic player" and disparaged anyone who doesn't have 100% faith that there's no chance he underperforms like other LB's Belichick has brought in, that I thought your remarks were directed towards how he would pan out in the NFL - not an affirmation of how he played in college.

I would still recommend you be at least a little open to the possibility that none of us yet know how he'll do as a professional.

 

[wdkantro2]

I just think it's a combination of needing youth but even more so (in Mayo's case), finally finding the guy that can do the job. Listen to the kid in interviews, he talks like a veteran. In the past, we have "needed" an LB and still chose not to take one in the draft. I think Mayo was the best available player for our system on the board, so they took him, and I really don't think there's much more to it.

 

[spacecrime]

Let me understand the question:

BB has never liked a LB enough to draft him high. Now he has found two he tinks are worthy of being drafted high.

So the question is: Why would two high draft picks that BB thinks are real good do any better than low draft picks that BB didn't think were any good?

Someone else said it: This question has the answer to it embodied in the question.

Or am I missing something in your question?

 

[spacecrime]

I see - you misunderstood the nature of this thread. We're all talking about whether Mayo and Crable will be good PROFESSIONAL football players. Not how "fantastic" they were in college.

Then why single out Mayo and Crable? This applies to over 250 draftees each and every year, no matter who they were drafted by, what position they play, and/or how high or low they were drafted.

I still don't get what you are driving at.

 

[Lockdown06]

I see - you misunderstood the nature of this thread. We're all talking about whether Mayo and Crable will be good PROFESSIONAL football players. Not how "fantastic" they were in college.

But to be accurate, I didn't misquote you - You didn't say "Mayo WAS a fantastic player IN COLLEGE". So don't attempt to tell people I'm twisting your words. You said "Mayo is a fantastic player" and everyone can see that. Changing it in the next post and adding "as I said" isn't going to fool anyone. You just failed to make clear you were only remarking about how well he'd do if he were still in college, while the rest of us are really more focused on how he'll do in the Pros.

It is good to know that you think he was a "fantastic player" in college - though I was generally under the impression that very few people who were BAD in college were drafted last Saturday, but thanks for clearing that up for others.

Given the topic of this thread and this forum, I think you can probably understand that when you said "Mayo is a fantastic player" and disparaged anyone who doesn't have 100% faith that there's no chance he underperforms like other LB's Belichick has brought in, that I thought your remarks were directed towards how he would pan out in the NFL - not an affirmation of how he played in college.

I would still recommend you be at least a little open to the possibility that none of us yet know how he'll do as a professional.

While we definitely did need Linebackers this draft, making your point about reaching for need a very valid one, here is my opinion as to why Mayo and Crable (and possibly Ruud) will pan out. With Crable and Ruud, BB has remarked that they were watching these guys not just this past offseason, or even this past year, but in fact for several years - check out BB's comments on Reiss' Mailbag, it was a few days ago but its in there somewhere.) BB basically said that everytime they would go scout somebody at Nebraska, they would also check on Ruud, and he also made a comment about how they had been following Crable and how he basically felt he was misused at michigan.

As for Mayo, I don't know if they kept tabs on him for quite so long, but given the level he played at this past year, at the weight that he played at (he played inside and outside in the 3-4 package at Tennessee, as well as MLB in the 4-3, while weighing 245 pounds - check out his audio interview at WEEI for confirmation on this) - Basically that says to me that he can (physically, at least) the 3-4 defense, whether or not he can pick-up the playbook is another matter, but as of right now there is no reason to doubt him in that respect.

Finally, its a good point that we may have reached for need in this draft - its no secret that we need 3-4 linebackers, but BB has "reached" in previous years, and so far the worst player he has taken in the first round has been either Daniel Graham, or Ben Watson, who have each contributed to Super Bowls, and while neither of them are pro bowlers, they have developed into solid talents.

While I think it is ridiculous to say that Mayo will be a pro bowler, and even more ridiculous to say the same for Crable, given Belichick and Pioli's draft records, particularly in the first round, there is no real reason to overly worry about whether these guys will be busts.

 

[spacecrime]

This would be a pretty boring and uninformative forum if we had only Kool-aid drinkers who are so simple minded as to assume that a player is a lock just because Belichick picked a player - whether its Biesel or Mayo.

Wow. A bit of an over-reaction, don't you think? Pretty defensive. I always wonder why people who think the Pats are doing a good job cannot be engaged in debate aobut whether the Pats track record is good or not. The only response from detractors is the personal insults like home and simple minded and Kool-Aid drinkers. Some of us really believe that BB might have a better idea of who will improve his team and who won't. Calling us homers is fun, but it is simply avoiding the facts rather than face them by turning the issue into name calling.

Anyway, it isn't being simple minded to look at data (winning seasons and superbowl wins) and conclude BB knows something about personnel acquisition.

Is he always right? No, the contest is not always to the strong, nor the race to the swift, but that's the way to bet 'em.

But now I see what the purpose of this thread is and understand your point a bit better.

Blech.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Then why single out Mayo and Crable? This applies to over 250 draftees each and every year, no matter who they were drafted by, what position they play, and/or how high or low they were drafted.

I still don't get what you are driving at.

I wasn't making a distiction... Patsfanforlife apparently has determined that "Mayo is fantastic" (in college, he adds later) and therefore doesn't like the possiblity that he might not be as "fantastic" in the NFL

I agree that every player drafted was good in college. That doesn't make them locks.

And the overall point of this thread is, just because Belichick drafted players, that doesn't make them locks either. And indeed finding LBs is one of the TOUGHEST things for Belichick to do, having NEVER taken one high in the draft and having struck out even in free agency.

So declaring Mayo or anyone else a lock as a starter or declaring the draft a success is very premature - even Belichick would likely agree with that and disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[alvinnf]

While I was as shocked as everyone when they took the LB's high. I'm not all that skeptical, you know they have brought enough guys in here projecting them into their system, with mixed results. While in NYG, he got both Banks and Taylor high in the draft, and you know even though they were'nt his picks necessarily, he certainly knows a top end LB when he sees one coming out of college. It might just be as simple as never being in the right spot up high to draft one.

Yeah, I know some draftnik can go find names taken where we could have gotten them. He's built this team up front and now he sort has been forced through age into the luxury of being able to use some high picks on guys. Other than a slight fear of injuries with mayo I'm jacked.....

 

[spacecrime]

And the overall point of this thread is, just because Belichick drafted players, that doesn't make them locks

You specified Mayo and Grabel in the thread subject. How many first and third round picks have failed to make the team, do you know? I would say they are locks unless they both own pitbull kennels.

In general, though, as you say, just because BB drafted Mayo doesn't mean he is good, but the chances to most of us are that he will be good.

But most of us are pleased with the way Bill Belichick has managed the team, and needn't go out of our way to invent convoluted sentences that imply otherwise.

You feel the need and that is fine for you. Lots of Pats fans apparently think he isn't all that good. Still not sure about dividing Patys fans into HATERS and HOMERS, but hey! It's the internet, right? Didn't someone once say that arguing on the internet was like competing in the Special Olympics? That even if you win, you're still ******ed? Politically incorrect as hell, but succinct, no?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but weren't you the one who was vehemently against drafting Mayo on day 1? Or was that PatsFanInPa? I believe someone around here actually has it as their signature as well...

You're wrong, and you're corrected. I think. I say a lot of sh** but I don't follow college enough to really know who is who, other than that Gholston was supposed to be the second coming (or the first, from my perspective,) until the Jest drafted him, effectively ending his career, of course.

I was the guy who said, before the fact, that we'd trade one of our 3s for a 2 next year and a 5.

PFnV