Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend

[JoeSixPat]

You specified Mayo and Grabel in the thread subject. How many first and third round picks have failed to make the team, do you know? I would say they are locks unless they both own pitbull kennels.

In general, though, as you say, just because BB drafted Mayo doesn't mean he is good, but the chances to most of us are that he will be good.

But most of us are pleased with the way Bill Belichick has managed the team, and needn't go out of our way to invent convoluted sentences that imply otherwise.

I guess I should have specified that I don't consider "making the team" my definition of success in the NFL. Monty Beisel made the team. That didn't mean he provided the depth we needed at LB. I'm hoping for some REAL contributions from them. I never realized I needed to make clear that I wasn't suggesting they weren't going to make the team. But unlike some I'll be disappointed if that's all they do.

I guess I should also make a few other observations clear.

I'm amazed that you consider someone like me a "hater" because I happen to ask other fans to offer their football analysis of why these LBs (and his name is "Crable" by the way) have are best suited to excell in BB's defense. Sadly, most of what I hear is that the reason they'll do well is "because Belichick picked them" or "because they are high draft picks" - usually discounting the fact that need played a strong role in this draft.

Unless you haven't noticed, LB has been one of the tougher positions for BB to fill on the roster - a position that many players find challenging given Belichick's sometimes complicated schemes.

That's the primary reason why I think BB has passed on rookie LBs in general - never ONCE using anything other than a very late pick in the draft (BB has never used higher than a 6th round pick on an LB - and furthermore he's only drafted 3 LBs EVER that I can remember before this year's two)

I'm attempting to offer some real football analysis here. Clearly people don't want to come here for that because doing so makes one a "hater".

Now I'm sure BB picked the best LBs that best matched his scheme with his picks this year. But as noticed, BB seems to have a very tall order when it comes to LBs, and even though LB is perhaps the most important position to him, thinks so highly of rookie LBs that he drafted 3 of them in 6 years of drafting before now.

Obviously I'm hoping both work out and are great. I just wish someone had more to offer in terms of the REASON why they are so well suited for the Patriots scheme than "because they were fantastic in college" or "because belichick drafted them".

Is that so much to ask? Does that make me a "hater"?

You feel the need and that is fine for you. Lots of Pats fans apparently think he isn't all that good. Still not sure about dividing Patys fans into HATERS and HOMERS, but hey! It's the internet, right? Didn't someone once say that arguing on the internet was like competing in the Special Olympics? That even if you win, you're still ******ed? Politically incorrect as hell, but succinct, no?

Then why are you arguing?

It's just amazing that asking the question of why players are well suited to play in our system has generated this sort of response from you.

Asking that question means that I'm not satisfied with Belichick and I'm a hater?

That's really a very odd way of looking at things - but apparently you're not alone. Lots of people agree with you that such questions are heresy around here.

 

[RayClay]

Because the Patriots need them to.

As I predicted, they went with a real linebacker, not a DE, to OLB, to ILB which had been Bruschi's path. They'll coach him up to play Patriots style "take on the OL" defense and may even modify their defense to take advantage of his speed.

Fact is, they didn't have the luxury of obtaining a DE convert.

One factor in acquiring Crable is he's played OLB. BB was quite specific about this.

It used to be that "tweener" DEs were available at bargain prices which was one reason they were patiently converted. Some stayed as ends in quick defenses like the Colts.

With the proliferation of 3-4 defenses, this size player is no longer a bargain and big players who are actually linebackers might be the Patriots targets of the future.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Because the Patriots need them to.

As I predicted, they went with a real linebacker, not a DE, to OLB, to ILB which had been Bruschi's path. They'll coach him up to play Patriots style "take on the OL" defense and may even modify their defense to take advantage of his speed.

Fact is, they didn't have the luxury of obtaining a DE convert.

One factor in acquiring Crable is he's played OLB. BB was quite specific about this.

It used to be that "tweener" DEs were available at bargain prices which was one reason they were patiently converted. Some stayed as ends in quick defenses like the Colts.

With the proliferation of 3-4 defenses, this size player is no longer a bargain and big players who are actually linebackers might be the Patriots targets of the future.

"Because we need them to", isn't exactly the confidence booster I was hoping for but thanks for a largely football oriented response beyond that.

You did invoke the "N" word -(Need) - which I agree, was very much a strong factor in this draft.

If we're to use History as an example then I'd have to guess that without a need at LB, Belichick likely again passes on LBs until the 6th round or so when he's finally willing to take a chance on a rookie.

Hopefully Mayo and Crable turn out to be great - though that might cause some to question BB's judgment on habitually avoiding rookie LBs in the past. We'll deal with that if and when it happens though (and we'll call them "haters" for doubting Belichick! )

 

[jczxohn1]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=81835

A picture is worth a thousand words.

But, I'll throw down a few anyway.
BB's defense depends on a read-and-react philosophy. The difficulty of operation lies not only on making the proper "read", but the complexity of options before you get to "react". Two innovations in the upcoming season are going to make it easier for a rookie to fit in. !: Dom Capers more aggressive influence to the defense. There will be more emphasis on the defense dictating the play. than reacting to the offense. 2: Radios on the defensive side of the ball. More detail will be transmitted to the Def. captain before each play.

The Colts manage to to lose 1/2 their defensive backfield every year, seemingly without a hitch, based on their fast, aggressive ball-hawking style. IMO, we wil be moving in that direction.

 

[tobias funke]

What is wrong with the explanation that the way the draft board fell combined with need is the reason those two were chosen?

Belichick talked very plainly about forcing a player into a system they're not suited for, and the pointlessnesss of the exercise. Why is it so hard to believe that they weren't in a position to draft LBs that Belichick felt would fit his system? If they peg certain guys as being able to 'get it', and then it's their turn and those guys aren't on the board, or they can't trade to get them, Belichick is not going to grab another random LB just because we 'need to get younger'.

From the interviews with both Belichick and Mayo, I think it is obvious what he sees in Jerod (and Crable) = coachable players with good speed, high intelligence, a Patriot-like work ethic, and a love for the game of football. I don't think it is worth throwing away the point that "if Belichick picked them, I'll take them". He's more than earned the benefit of the doubt on these guys, at least for a couple of years.

 

[RayClay]

The Patriots drafted Big linemen or BPA in the beginning because they had a lot of holes.

Now they collect extra picks so they can make the draft board come to the players they need.

I don't see what is so damned complicated about it. They had a shot at a fine defensive tackle (maybe not a good fit, but that's irrelevant since they start 3 all pros [Warren got screwed]). They needed a linebacker, probably spent tons of time evaluating linebackers this year, dropped to a better value position and pulled the trigger.

Make the mountain come to Mohammed.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm as excited as everyone else to have two young LBs added to the roster, especially a Top Ten pick like Mayo...

But I'm having a tough time forgetting that Belichick is so particular about which LBs can fit in his system that he's pretty much passed on drafting any LB high in the draft since - well, forever.

That's a pretty stark fact noting that BB is a guy who is always drafting with the future in mind - and hasn't been willing or able to use the draft to gain some up and coming talent even as his LB corps gets older and slower.

He's preferred to look to proven NFL veterans as a barometer of whether they can fit in the system - and even then he's been wrong.

So can someone tell me why, once the euphoria from draft weekend dies down, that I should expect Mayo and Crable to do what Belichick never felt rookie LBs were able to do in the past and step right in and contribute? (or the first ones that BB even felt were a worthy investment for the future?)

Not trying to throw cold water on our draft picks - just trying to be realistic when everyone seems to have these guys starting in their minds.

You shouldn't.

 

[JoeSixPat]

BB's defense depends on a read-an...ball analysis than "because we drafted them"!

 

[JR4]

What is wrong with the explanation that the way the draft board fell combined with need is the reason those two were chosen?

Belichick talked very plainly about forcing a player into a system they're not suited for, and the pointlessnesss of the exercise. Why is it so hard to believe that they weren't in a position to draft LBs that Belichick felt would fit his system? If they peg certain guys as being able to 'get it', and then it's their turn and those guys aren't on the board, or they can't trade to get them, Belichick is not going to grab another random LB just because we 'need to get younger'.

From the interviews with both Belichick and Mayo, I think it is obvious what he sees in Jerod (and Crable) = coachable players with good speed, high intelligence, a Patriot-like work ethic, and a love for the game of football. I don't think it is worth throwing away the point that "if Belichick picked them, I'll take them". He's more than earned the benefit of the doubt on these guys, at least for a couple of years.

you're just too rational

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

It's sad that folks look unimaginitavely at past actions and then assert that BB will simply continue to do precisely what he'd done in the past. There are several reasons not to do so. First, the NFL environment evolves, the prior comments on the prevalence of 3-4 Ds and the value chart change for 'small' DEs is just one specific example. Remember last year when our late round OLB developmental prospect couldn't make it to the PS without Dallas scooping him up? Secondly, excellent managers evolve and change as well. BB has shown that he continually adapts his tactics as the NFL changes. Good managers look at the past to study what did and didn't work and then factor in the changing future and make adjustments where necessary to ensure that they're competitive.

BB is not doomed to repeat a Monty Beisel/Chad Brown scenario any more that a 7th round pick like Cassie is destined to be the next Tom Brady.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's sad that folks look unimaginitavely at past actions and then assert that BB will simply continue to do precisely what he'd done in the past. There are several reasons not to do so. First, the NFL environment evolves, the prior comments on the prevalence of 3-4 Ds and the value chart change for 'small' DEs is just one specific example. Remember last year when our late round OLB developmental prospect couldn't make it to the PS without Dallas scooping him up? Secondly, excellent managers evolve and change as well. BB has shown that he continually adapts his tactics as the NFL changes. Good managers look at the past to study what did and didn't work and then factor in the changing future and make adjustments where necessary to ensure that they're competitive.

BB is not doomed to repeat a Monty Beisel/Chad Brown scenario any more that a 7th round pick like Cassie is destined to be the next Tom Brady.

Well I for one am glad of the "coincidence" (if people are more comfortable with that) that BB, for the first time ever with the Patriots, decided that there was an LB or two worth drafting before the 6th round.

I don't think people look at Belichick's history "unimaginatively". I think most believe that there was probably a REASON why he has not previously used anything better than 6th round picks on LB.

Others seem to feel previous absence of LBs in the draft is just a concidence... that the "best player available" always dictates Belichicks actions.

I think that's far too simplistic and "unimaginative" - I think his draft decisions were made strategically, that the now significant need for youth at LB did in fact influence his decisions in this draft, even though Belichick has never before had a high degree of confidence that rookie LBs will quickly learn and thrive in his system.

This notion is very clearly difficult for many fans to accept.

Perhaps, as you suggest, Belichick will adapt his system to the rookies. Somehow that doesn't strike me as very Belichickian either.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

Are you talking about the same people who picked Monty Biesel as well?

In that case they had a veteran with a track record and tons of NFL footage to watch.

In this case they made a pick based on combine results and college film... considerably more "blind" than they were in Biesel's case.

I'm not expecting BB to be perfect - he himself admits that he's very demanding on his defense and LBs especially, and not everyone "gets" his system.

I think it'd just be wise of everyone to temper their expectations of these guys. 1st round or 3rd round they've got to earn their playing time, no matter what rave reviews they get in fan forums.

I think that BB knows his system is demanding and I think he's had serious doubts of the ability of rookies to "get it" in the past, and has declined to draft LBs because of that. Yet this year it is very clear that need WAS a factor, likely prompting BB to take a chance with a high pick on an LB.

Brother,

First off... I'm not attacking you by giving my simple answer... everyone is entitled to their opinion... and you clearly have yours.

My opinion is that the three headed monster of BB, Kraft and Pioli have made this team what it is today (with a tip of the cap to Parcells... his hand is clearly in this, too... even though he was interviewing for a diff. job while he should have been prepping for GB)... with outstanding coaching AND with superb player/talent evaluation, FO movement/management and salary cap management. I truly believe that BB is the smartest man in the league when it comes to surrounding himself with top notch people that eat, sleep and breathe NFL football.

From what I read about Mayo and Crable... they sound great... but I'm not going to presume to know even 1/100th of what BB and his team know about a player. If they pick him.... then I'm with 'em. I'm a simple guy and that's a simple way to be... BB has proven (to me) that he knows what he's doing here... he could go 0-16 next year and I'd still be saying that about him (with or without Brown and Biesel on any roster).... to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs... no one is right all of the time... but I do expect that Mayo (most probably) and Crable (most likely) will eventually shine for the Pats... "our side" just does too good of a job evaluating talent for them NOT to.

When it comes to football: In BB I trust. I know that many on this board feel the same way... I don't think that you should take offense with my/our stance, just as I don't with your position... cool?

 

[bradmahn]

Well I for one am glad of the "coincidence" (if people are more comfortable with that) that BB, for the first time ever with the Patriots, decided that there was an LB or two worth drafting before the 6th round.

I don't think people look at Belichick's history "unimaginatively". I think most believe that there was probably a REASON why he has not previously used anything better than 6th round picks on LB.

Others seem to feel previous absence of LBs in the draft is just a concidence... that the "best player available" always dictates Belichicks actions.

I think that's far too simplistic and "unimaginative" - I think his draft decisions were made strategically, that the now significant need for youth at LB did in fact influence his decisions in this draft, even though Belichick has never before had a high degree of confidence that rookie LBs will quickly learn and thrive in his system.

This notion is very clearly difficult for many fans to accept.

Perhaps, as you suggest, Belichick will adapt his system to the rookies. Somehow that doesn't strike me as very Belichickian either.

Were you this adamant about Belichick bucking the trend and drafting for need when he strayed from his typical pattern of drafting and took Maroney in the first round? Just because he has not done something before does not mean it was because he didn't believe it could work, most likely it means he didn't feel it was the most prudent thing to do at the time. You making the assumption that he did not think any rookie linebackers could handle the position in his defense is unjustifiable. You cannot make that assertion especially when it has been reported that he was high on various linebackers that came out, but for whatever reason (usually they were selected before he picked) he was not able to get them.

The Patriots (as many have already said) do not draft for need, but need is a part of the equation in the development of a draft board. They didn't pick Mayo and Crable because they needed linebackers; they picked the two because they had the requisite size (or growth potential, in Crable's case), intelligence and athletic ability (not to mention versatility) and BB obviously projects them well to the positions they will play. This year's draft was a convergence of opportunity and availability.

Comparisons to Monty Beisel are foolish, as well. Monty Beisel is the equivalent of a sixth round conversion project who probably would not have made the team had they not been hit with debilitating injury/retirement in '05. Mayo taken at tenth overall is an obvious showing of faith by the team, as that is a hefty price to pay for a player. Mayo in the first is like the Patriots targeting and acquiring Rosevelt Colvin and Adalius Thomas because of the cost of getting them.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well I for one am glad of the "coincidence" (if people are more comfortable with that) that BB, for the first time ever with the Patriots, decided that there was an LB or two worth drafting before the 6th round.

PWP: Note ALSO that for the 'first time ever' BB took a QB with a (traditionally) Day One pick. Things change. Precisely my point.

Perhaps, as you suggest, Belichick will adapt his system to the rookies. Somehow that doesn't strike me as very Belichickian either.

Nowhere did I say that "Belichick will adapt his system to the rookies". I did say that a good manager's tactics evolve considering the changing environment around him.

Your the LBs will quite likely be another Beisel analogy is equivalent to the opposite (and equally false) analogy that late round pick Matt C at QB will likely be another Brady.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Were you this adamant about Belichick bucking the trend and drafting for need when he strayed from his typical pattern of drafting and took Maroney in the first round? Just because he has not done something before does not mean it was because he didn't believe it could work, most likely it means he didn't feel it was the most prudent thing to do at the time. You making the assumption that he did not think any rookie linebackers could handle the position in his defense is unjustifiable. You cannot make that assertion especially when it has been reported that he was high on various linebackers that came out, but for whatever reason (usually they were selected before he picked) he was not able to get them.

The Patriots (as many have already said) do not draft for need, but need is a part of the equation in the development of a draft board. They didn't pick Mayo and Crable because they needed linebackers; they picked the two because they had the requisite size (or growth potential, in Crable's case), intelligence and athletic ability (not to mention versatility) and BB obviously projects them well to the positions they will play. This year's draft was a convergence of opportunity and availability.

Comparisons to Monty Beisel are foolish, as well. Monty Beisel is the equivalent of a sixth round conversion project who probably would not have made the team had they not been hit with debilitating injury/retirement in '05. Mayo taken at tenth overall is an obvious showing of faith by the team, as that is a hefty price to pay for a player. Mayo in the first is like the Patriots targeting and acquiring Rosevelt Colvin and Adalius Thomas because of the cost of getting them.

I think you're thinking of someone else. I've never suggested that Mayo or Crable couldn't handle Belichick's system. I simply asked WHY they in particular were well suited when in the past, Belichick has not turned to rookies.

The majority of answers were "because Belichick drafted them" and "because they were good in college" - not exactly in depth football analysis, I'm sure you'll agree.

There's a bizarre mindset around here that thinks the Patriots do not draft for need, when they very clearly do - though its a combination of need and talent that ultimately makes the decision.

There's also an odd believe that there was absolutely no reason that Belichick never took rookie LBs.. that it was sheer coincidence. Suggest that there was an actual reason - i.e. that he didn't feel rookies could handle his system - and you're labeled a "hater" and generate controversy.

I haven't seen anyone comparing Mayo to Biesel either - but Biesel IS an example of a veteran LB with tons of NFL footage that Belichick felt was well suited to his system, who it turned out, was not.

Why is that a foolish observation? Do you really not see how that's relevant to assessing rookies with NO NFL experience, and just how difficult it is to assess whether someone's a fit for this system?

One of the things I like about football is just this sort of analysis. I suppose others would just prefer not to think about these things, and I guess that's fine, though it is somewhat amusing to see how upset people get when anyone looks for REASONS why Belichick does what he does!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Nowhere did I say that "Belichick will adapt his system to the rookies". I did say that a good manager's tactics evolve considering the changing environment around him.

Your the LBs will quite likely be another Beisel analogy is equivalent to the opposite (and equally false) analogy that late round pick Matt C at QB will likely be another Brady.

Sorry - I didn't realize that you felt Belichick evolves and adapts - but would never do so with his system.

IMO I think he's done that in many ways before - part of what makes him a great coach, recognizing the assets on his team and using them, even if they don't fit perfectly with his system - but I do think it'd be a bit of a stretch for him to adapt his system to rookies.

Someone else must have been comparing Mayo or Crable to Beisel because it sure wasn't me.

I did note that it may be difficult for Belichick to assess LBs. He sure didn't bring Beisel in because he thought he WASN'T well suited to his system. I'm sure he watched tons of film of Beisel's NFL games and determined he was a good match. It sure didn't turn out that way.

So again, Beisel's a good example of how difficult it is for Belichick to find the sort of LBs he likes - and an example that its not a perfect science. That flies in the face of those who assert that the reason Mayo and Crable are going to do well is "because Belichick drafted them" but it is true - just as its likely true there was a reason that BB never before felt using a high draft pick on a rookie LB represented value.

Although this may anger some fans, I think most people would agree that neither Belichick or any GM drafts solely on the "best player available". It's not black and white. It's a combination of best player and need - and this year I think we saw need as a strong element in the draft, with LB and CB drafted high.

Its a shocking revelation to some but I'd say its true.

 

[bradmahn]

I think you're thinking of someone else. I've never suggested that Mayo or Crable couldn't handle Belichick's system. I simply asked WHY they in particular were well suited when in the past, Belichick has not turned to rookies.

The majority of answers were "because Belichick drafted them" and "because they were good in college" - not exactly in depth football analysis, I'm sure you'll agree.

There's a bizarre mindset around here that thinks the Patriots do not draft for need, when they very clearly do - though its a combination of need and talent that ultimately makes the decision.

There's also an odd believe that there was absolutely no reason that Belichick never took rookie LBs.. that it was sheer coincidence. Suggest that there was an actual reason - i.e. that he didn't feel rookies could handle his system - and you're labeled a "hater" and generate controversy.

I haven't seen anyone comparing Mayo to Biesel either - but Biesel IS an example of a veteran LB with tons of NFL footage that Belichick felt was well suited to his system, who it turned out, was not.

Why is that a foolish observation? Do you really not see how that's relevant to assessing rookies with NO NFL experience, and just how difficult it is to assess whether someone's a fit for this system?

One of the things I like about football is just this sort of analysis. I suppose others would just prefer not to think about these things, and I guess that's fine, though it is somewhat amusing to see how upset people get when anyone looks for REASONS why Belichick does what he does!

The title of this thread is "Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend," how does that not imply that you don't believe Mayo or Crable will be capable of playing for Belichick? You presented the negative and asked it to be disproved. As has already been said, well, if Belichick drafted them, then he very obviously feels they are capable of doing what he wants them to do. Is that not right? If you agree it is, then you've wasted everyone's time with a pointless thread because they have already "bucked" the goddamn "trend."

No one has any problems with you attempting to determine why the Patriots haven't drafted LBs in the past - although some see it pretty clearly that it was because the other players on the board were ranked higher- it's that you are making a limited and very broad determination (he didn't think rookies could play in his system) when the judgment should be more narrow (he didn't think those rookies were more valuable than the players he decided to draft). Just because he passed over LBs then does not mean he didn't see any LBs that were capable of playing in the system, all it means is that he didn't think those players had as much value as the ones he did draft.

Beisel is an instance of when Belichick failed in bringing in a veteran linebacker. Ryan Claridge is also an example of a failed linebacker acquisition. The two have no bearing on the situations of Mayo or Crable, other than that they show Belichick could have made a mistake with either one of the two. Surprise, surprise, Belichick is fallible. As I've already said:

Mayo taken at tenth overall is an obvious showing of faith by the team, as that is a hefty price to pay for a player. Mayo in the first is like the Patriots targeting and acquiring Rosevelt Colvin and Adalius Thomas because of the cost of getting them.

There is an obvious showing of faith in the selections of Crable and Mayo because of where they were selected. Belichick values them more than he did the others, dare I say he coveted them in a way that is not evident with either Beisel or Claridge. That sort of pursuit is closer to LBs Colvin and Thomas, who Belichick was not wrong about. I'm confident in his confidence (as you should be as well, in my opinion).

 

[JoeSixPat]

The title of this thread is "Someone tell me why Mayo and Crable are going to buck the Pats LB trend," how does that not imply that you don't believe Mayo or Crable will be capable of playing for Belichick? You presented the negative and asked it to be disproved. As has already been said, well, if Belichick drafted them, then he very obviously feels they are capable of doing what he wants them to do. Is that not right? If you agree it is, then you've wasted everyone's time with a pointless thread because they have already "bucked" the goddamn "trend."

No one has any problems with you attempting to determine why the Patriots haven't drafted LBs in the past - although some see it pretty clearly that it was because the other players on the board were ranked higher- it's that you are making a limited and very broad determination (he didn't think rookies could play in his system) when the judgment should be more narrow (he didn't think those rookies were more valuable than the players he decided to draft). Just because he passed over LBs then does not mean he didn't see any LBs that were capable of playing in the system, all it means is that he didn't think those players had as much value as the ones he did draft.

Beisel is an instance of when Belichick failed in bringing in a veteran linebacker. Ryan Claridge is also an example of a failed linebacker acquisition. The two have no bearing on the situations of Mayo or Crable, other than that they show Belichick could have made a mistake with either one of the two. Surprise, surprise, Belichick is fallible. As I've already said:

There is an obvious showing of faith in the selections of Crable and Mayo because of where they were selected. Belichick values them more than he did the others, dare I say he coveted them in a way that is not evident with either Beisel or Claridge. That sort of pursuit is closer to LBs Colvin and Thomas, who Belichick was not wrong about. I'm confident in his confidence (as you should be as well, in my opinion).

If you want to believe that Patsfans are actually AGAINST Mayo doing well go for it - I can't stop you.

If you want to put your head in the sand and make believe that Belichick has not found many rookies who can quickly thrive in his system - go for that as well. Again, I can't stop you.

I asked what I thought was a simple question - that apparently required a lot explanation as clearly many of the Patsfans posting on this thread were not previously aware that Belichick has never before drafted a rookie LB before the 6th round and never thought to question why.

Thankfully some fans here understand that concept and did provide actual football analysis of why these players particluar skill sets and experience are well suited to the Patriots system.

Most others sadly could only offer blind and mindless statements of "because Belichick drafted them" and "because they were good in college".

I expect that sort of mindless idolatry from other teamsfans. I do not expect it from Patsfans, for whom I generally have a high opinion.

 

[RayClay]

My position is, there have always been college LBs (DEs) who could have played on the Patriots.

Their preference was to use veterans. Biesel actually was a rush job due to TJs retirement and Bruschis accident (correct me if I'm wrong).

Every year they didn't find a Colvin or Vrabel, the likelihood of finding enough young, affordable vets to replace retirees and supplement ever older vets, (Vrabel, Thomas) became less likely.

Guys like Seward and Hobson weren't talented enough to replace all the talent lost and aging in the LB corps so they started to plan, starting with the acquisition of Capers.

Plus they had the first pick since Seymour. This is why they traded into a better draft than last year. Of course if the ratfink commissioner hadn't stolen our pick, maybe we get a top corner too, but I love what i see of Wheatley and it's bottom of the second money.

Nothing unique about the two LBs. The difference is they traded up for the ammo, probably dissected every linebacker like a science project to get the right guy and got extra help to school the hell out of them.

 

[JoeSixPat]

My position is, there have always been college LBs (DEs) who could have played on the Patriots.

Their preference was to use veterans. Biesel actually was a rush job due to TJs retirement and Bruschis accident (correct me if I'm wrong).

Every year they didn't find a Colvin or Vrabel, the likelihood of finding enough young, affordable vets to replace retirees and supplement ever older vets, (Vrabel, Thomas) became less likely.

Guys like Seward and Hobson weren't talented enough to replace all the talent lost and aging in the LB corps so they started to plan, starting with the acquisition of Capers.

Plus they had the first pick since Seymour. This is why they traded into a better draft than last year. Of course if the ratfink commissioner hadn't stolen our pick, maybe we get a top corner too, but I love what i see of Wheatley and it's bottom of the second money.

Nothing unique about the two LBs. The difference is they traded up for the ammo, probably dissected every linebacker like a science project to get the right guy and got extra help to school the hell out of them.

We needed depth at LB on the roster even before Bruschi had his stroke - but people can decide that for themselves. In any event Beisel's signing had nothing to do with Johnson's retirement and was signed well before the draft in early April... whereas I don't think Johnson retired until well after that no? Late summer? Just before the pre-season games? (correct me if I'm wrong)

How much of a "rush" the decision to sign Beisel was is debateable.

Didn't Bruschi suffer his stroke even before free agency started? I'm sure the team knew pretty quickly he'd not be playing in '05. So its not like they were caught midway into free agency before they knew they needed depth at LB - but in any event they took two months from Bruschi's stroke to Beisel's signing, so I'd say they probably took a pretty good look at all LBs over that period.