Draft Addressed MY concerns

[stcjones]

Now all that's left is hoping McDaniels doesn't f it all up this year.

good luck with that wish

 

[NYCPatsFan]

...
Three Super Bowl victories, 3 scores by the opponent inside of two minutes left in the game.

Game scores:
Patriots vs Rams: 20-17
Patriots vs Panthers: 32-29
Patriots vs Eagles: 24-21

So, the best offensive team in history scored fewer points than any of the 3 Super Bowl winning Patriots teams, and the losing team from this past season surrendered the fewest points (along with the 2001 team) of the 4 recent Super Bowl Patriots teams. All 4 of the Patriots' Super Bowl teams this decade surrendered a touchdown inside of two minutes, and 3 of them still won. Let's try avoiding the revisionist history.

It was the offense's failing, not the defense.

Fgssand's response resonated well and I was quite convinced by it until I saw this.

Great point and it is awesome to see knowledgable fans present their cold-hard-football thoughts )) in a civil and clear manner.

Eager to read how others respond to this...

 

[JoePats]

The Rams game they were overmatched by a great offensive team. The D had played a magnificent game but they weren't good enough to hold them down the whole game.

The Panthers game they were injured and exhausted, playing reserves.

The Eagles game, that TD was window dressing, means nothing to me.

The Giants game I can't think of any reasonable excuse except the Giants caught a break on the Tyree play. But they had 130 other yards on two TD drives.

 

[patsox23]

I'm pretty positive that if McDaniels knew how to make adjustments we would have won that game.

I think Josh McDaniels DOES know how to make adjustments. I just think he, and the entire coaching staff, did a crappy job. So did the OL.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Looking at the season as a whole and the SB I think we need to address a few things in the off-season

1. We need more of a pass-rush and coverage speed on D. The bend dont break defense gives up a lot of yards and its fine when your O is scoring at will but when it isnt we need more pressure on the QB and some faster guys at ILB and in the secondary. I would think Merriweather plays more this year at S then Harrison purely for speed purposes,

2. The O needs more balance. McDaniels play book almost went down to 4 plays. The bomb to Moss, the screen, Welker in the slot or Faulk or 3rd down. IMHO Stallworth was underused. We need more slants, quick outs and short routes to Moss and hopefully Jackson/Gaffney. Sending Randy deep and getting him doubled ALL the time isnt using all his strengths

3. Following on from that I hope the run gets used more this year - balanced between Morris and Maroney. Even if we go 3 and out a few times it wears down a rushing D line and lets Brady use more play action. I mean who was getting fooled by that last season (save that idiot S from Pittsburgh) - you knew it was gonna be pass

BB has addressed no.1 in the draft, lets hope the coaches and McD address 2 and 3 in pre-season

 

[Displaced - Fan]

I'm pretty positive that if McDaniels knew how to make adjustments we would have won that game.

I think Josh McDaniels DOES know how to make adjustments. I just think he, and the entire coaching staff, did a crappy job. So did the OL.

Man give the Giants D some credit. They were the hotest D in the game at the end of the season. They played a very good game. Our OL may not have had their best game, but the Giants D DID have their best game.

 

[Poker]

Looking at the season as a whole and the SB I think we need to address a few things in the off-season

1. We need more of a pass-rush and coverage speed on D. The bend dont break defense gives up a lot of yards and its fine when your O is scoring at will but when it isnt we need more pressure on the QB and some faster guys at ILB and in the secondary. I would think Merriweather plays more this year at S then Harrison purely for speed purposes,

2. The O needs more balance. McDaniels play book almost went down to 4 plays. The bomb to Moss, the screen, Welker in the slot or Faulk or 3rd down. IMHO Stallworth was underused. We need more slants, quick outs and short routes to Moss and hopefully Jackson/Gaffney. Sending Randy deep and getting him doubled ALL the time isnt using all his strengths

3. Following on from that I hope the run gets used more this year - balanced between Morris and Maroney. Even if we go 3 and out a few times it wears down a rushing D line and lets Brady use more play action. I mean who was getting fooled by that last season (save that idiot S from Pittsburgh) - you knew it was gonna be pass

BB has addressed no.1 in the draft, lets hope the coaches and McD address 2 and 3 in pre-season

Reading this thread, I think this post nails it the best. BB and the coaches are definitely thinking about the last two seasons' final losses, but also looking at the bigger picture of how to make the team better overall, not just correcting the last problem which knocked us out of contention.

 

[DarrylS]

I'm pretty positive that if McDaniels knew how to make adjustments we would have won that game. I'm also pretty positive that if the D came away with a stop we would have won. I think what it came down to though, is that as a whole, the giants just wanted it more.

As far as McDaniels goes, BB knows what is going on, he is not listening to Bon Jovi on his headphones and can overrule anthing... the Giants D played lights out...

Back to the original post, I agree with Andy Johnson on his assessment, but it is only on paper.. will know more after a couple of years. It looks real good, a lot of these guys are very good football players with good character.. but we will see..

 

[bradmahn]

Reading this thread, I think this post nails it the best. BB and the coaches are definitely thinking about the last two seasons' final losses, but also looking at the bigger picture of how to make the team better overall, not just correcting the last problem which knocked us out of contention.

The smartest statement made in this thread.

Belichick and Pioli aren't building the '08 team off of the performances of everyone in their single final game, they are looking at the entire scope of a season's work and using that to determine their decisions.

We all watched last season, which do you think is more likely: the Patriots offense putting up 26+ points or the defensive pressure and middle of the field pass defense failing when we need it most? The Super Bowl is just one game from last season (albeit a very important one) but you don't make a season's worth of evaluations off of the performance in that one game.

 

[JoeShmoe]

The smartest statement made in this thread.

Belichick and Pioli aren't building the '08 team off of the performances of everyone in their single final game, they are looking at the entire scope of a season's work and using that to determine their decisions.

We all watched last season, which do you think is more likely: the Patriots offense putting up 26+ points or the defensive pressure and middle of the field pass defense failing when we need it most? The Super Bowl is just one game from last season (albeit a very important one) but you don't make a season's worth of evaluations off of the performance in that one game.

Agreed. Remember in the regular season games, Philly, Baltimore and NYG passed all over us (with an average QB and passing game in the first 2 cases) esp down the middle of the field. We only won those games due to great O and some atstounding luck (Baltimore) - which evened itself out in the SB

Indeed I remember the board reaction to those games saying how we had no pass rush, no QB pressure, no coverage speed etc. Im pretty sure BB and Pees saw that too and have moved to address it. Seymour hopefully is fully fit this year and go show his pro-bowl form. I also think Merriweather could have an important role this year if he gets some games at S covering the middle where we did so badly. If teams see Rodney lining up they'll all throw down the middle. He'll get some but he'll give up a lot as well. Rodney seems at best a nickle LB this year given he's lost his pace and can be exploited - but he is great at covering TE's (Dallas Clark for example) and it will be better when Mayo can provide some inside pass coverage speed as well (i.e. long 3rd downs)

 

[VJCPatriot]

The factor that cost us 2 years in a row is playing pass defense when the other team is in a comeback or 2 minute offense. In the SB we were horrendous in these situations with Gay as the nickel, and Rodney at S failing to come close to covering receivers who ran a "run toward him, cut and run away route" and were always open. Additonally, the coverage from the LB position was not strong in those situations, and the pass rush lacked depth, wearing down in both games.

I think I posted on the very same subject after the AFCCG loss to the Colts. The Pats primary weakness is in the middle of their D. They got gashed by tight ends and slot receivers. I proposed that the Pats needed to obtain a freakish cover safety and a cover LB such as Phifer (whom we've sorely missed since his retirement). The Pats have obtained those pieces over the past 2 drafts. Meriweather in 2007 and now Mayo and Wheatley in 2008.

Even with Samuel gone, I think that the Patriots overall defense will be BETTER in 2009. As an added bonus, Crable is a tall and athletic guy who can help keep AD/Vrabel fresh in a rotation while he is learning on the job. The Pats addressed most of their needs in the 2009 draft except for another TE/OL. But you can never fill all you needs in just 1 draft. And also don't forget that the Pats will likely pick up a few more free agents after June 1st cuts to fill out the roster.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't know where everyone got this opinion that the Giants brought the house on every play. Most of their pressure was applied by the defensive line... NOT the linebackers.

 

[patsox23]

I'm pretty positive that if McDaniels knew how to make adjustments we would have won that game.

Man give the Giants D some credit. They were the hotest D in the game at the end of the season. They played a very good game. Our OL may not have had their best game, but the Giants D DID have their best game.

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I have consistently said the Giants played a fantastic game, the only way they could've beaten N.E. They deserve all the credit in the world. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't simply a matter of McDaniels not making adjustments. And by the way, anyone making THAT argument should put the bull's-eye from Josh right squarely on to Belichick. The buck stops there, on BOTH sides of the ball.

 

[NEPatriot]

It was really interesting seeing the progression from the loss in the AFCC to the loss in the SB. One can never be sure, but I bet its safe to say that BB was surprised, to say the least, that we didn't outscore the Giants.

BB did absolutely nothing in that SB game even though thing went down the hill. If you watched that game again, you would see that Pats was not interested in SCORING because we tried to 'play and catch' with Giants the ENTIRE game.

42 SB game was REALLY STRANGE from the beginning to the end.

1-Even though TB had leg injury and a SB game was in the next few days, he still went to see his girlfriend in NY. Didn't they go to the club together.? It was weird if he danced with his girlfriend even though he couldn't participate in game preparation.?

Would you think that somebody in Pats told him to stay home to REST because his BIGGEST game was next.??

2- The spygate started 9/07. Why was Walsh's news on paper 2 days before SB game even though Goodell heard the rumor between 09/07 and 02/08.?

3- Specter was interested in this spygate because he cared about his Eagle team. It is absolutely BS IF you ask me.! He has a lot of years to CARE about his team but he didn't do anything to show that even though his team lost one season after seasons.

4- There was a moment which i thought TB would go to hospital because he was knocked and sacked as if there was no tomorrow. No time out or anything when it happened.!

5- Nobody thought that Pats would only SCORE 14 pts in this game. Didn't we SCORE more than that when we faced Dolphin in bad weather.?Way to go #1 NFL O.

6-Pats scored AFTER giants SCORED. No field goal anything for Pats in this game.


Nothing really makes any sense if you actually think about it. Now, i understand why BB doens't want to talk about that SB game.

 

[Ring 6]

Fgssand's response resonated well and I was quite convinced by it until I saw this.

Great point and it is awesome to see knowledgable fans present their cold-hard-football thoughts )) in a civil and clear manner.

Eager to read how others respond to this...

Statistics do not win Championships. Making plays in the clutch does. I dont care if the defense held the Giants without a first down for the first 3 quarters, when you allow 2 80+ yards drives in the 4th quarter of the SB both in cases where we were ahead when the drive started, you get blame.
The most important part of the season is the 4th quarter of the SB, and our defense allowed 14 points over 150 passing yards and 2 80+ TD drives.

Sure, you can try to be analytical, and try to place blame based on a number of factors, but the bottom line is that in order to win a Championship you can not have a unit that is pathetic in the most important quarter of the season. (And we could make the same statement about 2006)

 

[patsox23]

The most important part of the season is the 4th quarter of the SB, and our defense allowed 14 points over 150 passing yards and 2 80+ TD drives.

you can try to be analytical, and try to place blame based on a number of factors, but the bottom line is that in order to win a Championship you can not have a unit that is pathetic in the most important quarter of the season.

Couldn't agree more. AJ, you are missed around here. Hope you start posting more often again.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I'm not ready to completely absolve the OL when it comes to the SB.

They played poorly, no doubt about it. But if our OL lined up against their D the following Sunday after the SB, the results would have been the same.

This isn't a particularly quick group of guys and they will always struggle when facing DL/LBs who are quicker than they are. Matt Light isn't going to suddenly get quicker with a little elbow grease in the off-season. Ditto for the others. Beyond that, there's an argument to be made Neal is a candidate to be replaced next off-season.

With BB apparently solving many issues on the defense in FA and with this draft, I'd rate pass protection as my top concern heading into next season not necessarily because I think the unit stinks (I don't) but because of who they are protecting.

 

[patsox23]

They played poorly, no doubt about it. But if our OL lined up against their D the following Sunday after the SB, the results would have been the same.

I think this is a bit much. I agree that it's not a great match-up for the Patriots OL, their skill-set, and the skill-set of the Giants, but I think 9 times out of 10 the results would not be "the same." I think they'd be "opposite." Not that Light, Koppen, et al, would dominate the Giants, but the result of the game would be opposite.

Giants and their DL played a perfect game. Hats off to them, they earned that Super Bowl. But it was a perfect storm that day. Any other day, Pats win.

 

[Deus Irae]

Statistics do not win Championships. Making plays in the clutch does. I dont care if the defense held the Giants without a first down for the first 3 quarters, when you allow 2 80+ yards drives in the 4th quarter of the SB both in cases where we were ahead when the drive started, you get blame.
The most important part of the season is the 4th quarter of the SB, and our defense allowed 14 points over 150 passing yards and 2 80+ TD drives.

Sure, you can try to be analytical, and try to place blame based on a number of factors, but the bottom line is that in order to win a Championship you can not have a unit that is pathetic in the most important quarter of the season. (And we could make the same statement about 2006)

In 2001, the Rams scored 14 4th quarter points, with about 91/2 minutes and 1 1/2 minutes left.

In 2003, the Panthers put up 19 points in the 4th.

Only in 2004 did the opposing team put up fewer points in the 4th quarter than this year's team (7).

In all 4 Super Bowls this decade, the Patriots have surrendered at least 7 points in the 4th quarter. In 3 out of 4 Super Bowl games, the Patriots allowed 14 points or more in the 4th quarter. They won 2 of those three games.

Also, for those pointing to yards allowed....

2001: 427
2003: 387
2004: 369
2007: 338

So, this year's team had the fewest yards allowed of any of the 4 Super Bowl games, as well.

The offense was the problem in the loss.

 

[JoePats]

In 2001, the Rams scored 14 4th quarter points, with about 91/2 minutes and 1 1/2 minutes left.

In 2003, the Panthers put up 19 points in the 4th.

Only in 2004 did the opposing team put up fewer points in the 4th quarter than this year's team (7).

Rams-Had one of the best offenses of all-time...The Pats defense held well and finally broke. They played great but were exhausted.

Panthers-There were some injuries on the defense at the end of that game.

Eagles-A completely meanlingless TD, window dressing, with the key part being a 5-minute drive as opposed to a TD.

Giants-Pats led a slightly above-average offense go down the field twice in the fourth quarter to lose the game. Take away the fluky Tyree play it's still 130 yards of offense on 2 drives.