10 things we learned

[bradmahn]

Here you go:

"The 6-2, 184 pound Bradenton, Fla., native’s last workout came Tuesday at TSU’s Hale Stadium for the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints. The Patriots have the seventh pick and are in the market for a cornerback after losing Asante Samuel to free agency."

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....S0604/80425115

Thanks.......

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... it's bradmahn.

Sending scouts to work out a prospect is doing your due diligence, if Belichick hadn't done as much I'd be upset with their approach and preparation. (...Off topic, do you have any confirmation for that? I ask because I hadn't seen the reports...)

Here you go:

"The 6-2, 184 pound Bradenton, Fla., native’s last workout came Tuesday at TSU’s Hale Stadium for the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints. The Patriots have the seventh pick and are in the market for a cornerback after losing Asante Samuel to free agency."

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....S0604/80425115

To all:
If you want to question me that's fine I don't have a problem with it but use some facts to back your claim instead of an ABSOLUTE SMOKESCREEN for the trade down.

Brady read the article you posted close, very close and think. DRC WAS A SMOKESCREEN. They were not going corner in the first and I could guarantee that. That's why my source allowed me to state their favorite corner which was Antoine Cason. They were planning on trading back and hoping the extra 2nd or 3rd could be used to get Cason should he fall into their range. They still got what I understand was their 2nd choice believe it or not at the position.

Now onto the smokescreen (DRC)
1. Remember BB said they started negociating on a trade with New Orleans on Friday

2. Early Saturday it started to come down the pipeline that Chris Long was the second pick. At this time New Orleans started to really work the phones to get up to Dorsey. When this didn't happen New Orleans not New England was very high on DRC and the Patriots knew this (obviously, look at your article)

3. So what they did is earlier in that day start thinking of a way to get the Saints to by into the trade. The pawn was DRC.

4. The Saints came very close to saying we'll just wait and go with our second pick and let Cincy have the bid for #7

5. You see they figured it was a bidding war between them and Cincy and they felt well we'll just wait for DRC.

6. This is when the DRC rumors came into play because they knew the Patriots were looking at DRC and it worked to PERFECTION (The Bluff that is)

7. The Patriots targeted #10 for their number 1 target in the draft (Mayo) yes over Chris Long and Gholston.

8. They bluffed the Saints to move back by using DRC to get it done.

9. Now your saying why then did they take Ellis instead of DRC (Good question)
The answer is this they wanted Ellis over DRC but didn't want or were reluctant to get into a bidding war for him. So the Pats gave alittle to get the deal done with the Saint because they didn't want to get stuck at #7 under no circumstances.

10. You can believe it or not but if you put aside your affection for DRC you will realize the meeting with the Saints to watch DRC was to set up a bluff to get to #10 all along.

11. Schefter and Smith were used as pawns while the clock was ticking down to get New Orleans to move.

Need proof on the New Orleans interest on which direction they were going after DT, look at their second round pick #40.

The Patriots were not going corner in the 1st because of the depth of the position and because an "Old Friend" has been in the cards for some time now. But, they had to make some teams believe that they were in this case the Saints.
Remember, BB said in his pre-draft presser when asked what positions are deep. He specifically said "Cornerback". He said "You could find a starter in the 3rd if you wanted to".

PT55

 

[BradyToMoss]

WHOA.................

10. You can believe it or not but if you put aside your affection for DRC you will realize the meeting with the Saints to watch DRC was to set up a bluff to get to #10 all along.

Are you telling me that the Pats intentionally knew that the Saints where flying down to work out DRC and knowing this, the Pats got themselves down to the exact same workout to create SMOKE ?

 

[Kontradiction]

To all:
If you want to question me that's fine I don't have a problem with it but use some facts to back your claim instead of an ABSOLUTE SMOKESCREEN for the trade down.

Brady read the article you posted close, very close and think. DRC WAS A SMOKESCREEN. They were not going corner in the first and I could guarantee that. That's why my source allowed me to state their favorite corner which was Antoine Cason. They were planning on trading back and hoping the extra 2nd or 3rd could be used to get Cason should he fall into their range. They still got what I understand was their 2nd choice believe it or not at the position.

Now onto the smokescreen (DRC)
1. Remember BB said they started negociating on a trade with New Orleans on Friday

2. Early Saturday it started to come down the pipeline that Chris Long was the second pick. At this time New Orleans started to really work the phones to get up to Dorsey. When this didn't happen New Orleans not New England was very high on DRC and the Patriots knew this (obviously, look at your article)

3. So what they did is earlier in that day start thinking of a way to get the Saints to by into the trade. The pawn was DRC.

4. The Saints came very close to saying we'll just wait and go with our second pick and let Cincy have the bid for #7

5. You see they figured it was a bidding war between them and Cincy and they felt well we'll just wait for DRC.

6. This is when the DRC rumors came into play because they knew the Patriots were looking at DRC and it worked to PERFECTION (The Bluff that is)

7. The Patriots targeted #10 for their number 1 target in the draft (Mayo) yes over Chris Long and Gholston.

8. They bluffed the Saints to move back by using DRC to get it done.

9. Now your saying why then did they take Ellis instead of DRC (Good question)
The answer is this they wanted Ellis over DRC but didn't want or were reluctant to get into a bidding war for him. So the Pats gave alittle to get the deal done with the Saint because they didn't want to get stuck at #7 under no circumstances.

10. You can believe it or not but if you put aside your affection for DRC you will realize the meeting with the Saints to watch DRC was to set up a bluff to get to #10 all along.

11. Schefter and Smith were used as pawns while the clock was ticking down to get New Orleans to move.

Need proof on the New Orleans interest on which direction they were going after DT, look at their second round pick #40.

The Patriots were not going corner in the 1st because of the depth of the position and because an "Old Friend" has been in the cards for some time now. But, they had to make some teams believe that they were in this case the Saints.
Remember, BB said in his pre-draft presser when asked what positions are deep. He specifically said "Cornerback". He said "You could find a starter in the 3rd if you wanted to".

PT55

You're NOT who we THOUGHT you were!!!

 

[PonyExpress]

To all:
If you want to question me that's fine I don't have a problem with it but use some facts to back your claim instead of an ABSOLUTE SMOKESCREEN for the trade down.

Brady read the article you posted close, very close and think. DRC WAS A SMOKESCREEN. They were not going corner in the first and I could guarantee that. That's why my source allowed me to state their favorite corner which was Antoine Cason. They were planning on trading back and hoping the extra 2nd or 3rd could be used to get Cason should he fall into their range. They still got what I understand was their 2nd choice believe it or not at the position.

Now onto the smokescreen (DRC)
1. Remember BB said they started negociating on a trade with New Orleans on Friday

2. Early Saturday it started to come down the pipeline that Chris Long was the second pick. At this time New Orleans started to really work the phones to get up to Dorsey. When this didn't happen New Orleans not New England was very high on DRC and the Patriots knew this (obviously, look at your article)

3. So what they did is earlier in that day start thinking of a way to get the Saints to by into the trade. The pawn was DRC.

4. The Saints came very close to saying we'll just wait and go with our second pick and let Cincy have the bid for #7

5. You see they figured it was a bidding war between them and Cincy and they felt well we'll just wait for DRC.

6. This is when the DRC rumors came into play because they knew the Patriots were looking at DRC and it worked to PERFECTION (The Bluff that is)

7. The Patriots targeted #10 for their number 1 target in the draft (Mayo) yes over Chris Long and Gholston.

8. They bluffed the Saints to move back by using DRC to get it done.

9. Now your saying why then did they take Ellis instead of DRC (Good question)
The answer is this they wanted Ellis over DRC but didn't want or were reluctant to get into a bidding war for him. So the Pats gave alittle to get the deal done with the Saint because they didn't want to get stuck at #7 under no circumstances.

10. You can believe it or not but if you put aside your affection for DRC you will realize the meeting with the Saints to watch DRC was to set up a bluff to get to #10 all along.

11. Schefter and Smith were used as pawns while the clock was ticking down to get New Orleans to move.

Need proof on the New Orleans interest on which direction they were going after DT, look at their second round pick #40.

The Patriots were not going corner in the 1st because of the depth of the position and because an "Old Friend" has been in the cards for some time now. But, they had to make some teams believe that they were in this case the Saints.
Remember, BB said in his pre-draft presser when asked what positions are deep. He specifically said "Cornerback". He said "You could find a starter in the 3rd if you wanted to".

PT55

PT55,

Why did Holley leak the Pats' interest in Mayo before the draft? Was that a totally self-serving move, or part of some "grand subterfuge"? Also, what are your thoughts on Crable, short term and long term?

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

WHOA.................

10. You can believe it or not but if you put aside your affection for DRC you will realize the meeting with the Saints to watch DRC was to set up a bluff to get to #10 all along.

Are you telling me that the Pats intentionally knew that the Saints where flying down to work out DRC and knowing this, the Pats got themselves down to the exact same workout to create SMOKE ?

That's why their the best at what they do. It turned out to be the Saints who they knew would be there but also any other team that was looking at DRC for the possible Top corner on the board. #7 was the prime spot for the Top corner to come off the board.

When was the last time they met with their #1 target Mayo?

By the way, Of everything I just wrote you pick #10?

PT55

 

[BradyToMoss]

That's why their the best at what they do. It turned out to be the Saints who they knew would be there but also any other team that was looking at DRC for the possible Top corner on the board. #7 was the prime spot for the Top corner to come off the board.

When was the last time they met with their #1 target Mayo?

By the way, Of everything I just wrote you pick #10?

PT55

I'm trying to save server space my friend that's all.

BTW, the info you are providing is fascinating and I never, ever would have guessed that this whole thing was a smokescreen never in a million years. When I found this TSU workout link (which occurred the Tue before the draft), i was certain, especially after watching Michael Smith, I was certain that if DRC got past Baltimore that he would fall to 10 and we would take him. As I was watching the draft unfold and I see the Jags move up to 8 for Harvey, I'm thinking that DRC is their guy, he's there and then the Mayo pick, I guess I'm suprised that they would go to the effort to send down some scouts to work out DRC (knowing they had no intentions of taking him, but what you're saying does make sense and I guess it shouldn't be called a coincidence that it was done with the Saints scouts being there also).

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

PT55,

Why did Holley leak the Pats' interest in Mayo before the draft? Was that a totally self-serving move, or part of some "grand subterfuge"? Also, what are your thoughts on Crable, short term and long term?

Holley,
Was playing a hunch he got from talking to a couple of the scouts. He knew the Top option was a trade down and was trying to figure out if it was for Rivers, Mayo and took an educated guess Mayo was the target and better fit and the Chief agreed.

Crable,
Short term will give them a pass rush of the end and hopefully grow long term into a solid every down OLB.
His upside is higher than his friend Pierre Woods but he MUST inprove on his cover skills (He takes bad angles in coverage and gets out of position). He will replace Vrabel in 3 years time if he can get the play book down.

PT55

 

[Pats726]

1) DRC was the Patriots top Cornerback.
2) PatsandTrojans55 isn't the source we thought he was.
3) Mayo was their Top LB and not Rivers like some thought
4) Sedrick Ellis interest was a smokescreen to create interest in a trade.
5) Jets wanted Chris Long. And, they didn't love McFadden like some of us including me thought.
6) Patriots aren't sold on Cassel at all. Thank God!
7) The Patriots do draft for need.
8) There will be a big competition in Trainning Camp for LB's to make the team.
9) Size isn't important to the Patriots when it comes to CB's, they prefer quicker guys with a great C.O.D.
10) ESPN has the worst coverage of the Draft. NFL Network was far better,

1---I am not sure we learned that..we might never know of the truth about that..despite what some did say...I do believe that in all these situations there are many stories and layers..it's the only way a team can REALLY get the pick that they want..so this I do not think is fact.
2----No comment...
3---I think that is obvious..and we will know in the next few years a LOT about this pick and th3 mpact on the team.
4---There are many smokescreens...
5---Maybe..or is that not what many wish others to think..again..I don't think we will know.
6---Not at all..after the Miami game when he was pulled..I think that was one of the final straws..He wasn't all that great in preseason..maybe they will find a way to deal him before the season.
7---I think need is a factor..has to be..it is one of the factors involved in it all..part of what makes up a draft strategy for a particular year..last year..did they draft for need?? So few made the team OR EVEN the practice squad...DID they draft for need? It's a factor of course..but not the ONLY one.
8--Yes..there will be competition at other positions as well
9----I think heaight is a factor but there are other ingredients to a GREAT CB..not just height...but thatw as something that most knowledgeable football fans knew way before now

 

[PonyExpress]

Holley,
Was playing a hunch he got from talking to a couple of the scouts. He knew the Top option was a trade down and was trying to figure out if it was for Rivers, Mayo and took an educated guess Mayo was the target and better fit and the Chief agreed.

Crable,
Short term will give them a pass rush of the end and hopefully grow long term into a solid every down OLB.
His upside is higher than his friend Pierre Woods but he MUST inprove on his cover skills (He takes bad angles in coverage and gets out of position). He will replace Vrabel in 3 years time if he can get the play book down.

PT55

PT55,
Is the plan to bulk Crable up? He's awfully thin in his lower half, as BB mentioned in his presser. It doesn't look like he can anchor effectively with his current physique. Also, I was surprised they preferred Crable to Avril. What was the logic there?

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I'm trying to save server space my friend that's all.

BTW, the info you are providing is fascinating and I never, ever would have guessed that this whole thing was a smokescreen never in a million years. When I found this TSU workout link (which occurred the Tue before the draft), i was certain, especially after watching Michael Smith, I was certain that if DRC got past Baltimore that he would fall to 10 and we would take him. As I was watching the draft unfold and I see the Jags move up to 8 for Harvey, I'm thinking that DRC is their guy, he's there and then the Mayo pick, I guess I'm suprised that they would go to the effort to send down some scouts to work out DRC (knowing they had no intentions of taking him, but what you're saying does make sense and I guess it shouldn't be called a coincidence that it was done with the Saints scouts being there also).

Think of the money they saved and other options they picked up.

Also, just for the icing on the cake here.
Ask yourself, If DRC was a good enough value for them at #7 (as Smith and Schefter) suggested when they said if they stay here. (by the way they didn't mention Mayo at #7).

So if DRC was a value for them at #7, shouldn't he be more a value now at #10 with extra picks an perhaps $4 million dollars cheaper? How does Mayo become a better value at #10 than DRC in this case if what Smith and Schefter say is to be believed?

Answer: He wasn't the Target hense: SMOKESCREEN

Remember, BB was going to pick Crable at #69 and got a call from San Diego in the 3rd. So he took the trade down got the extra picks and still took his man with what he believed to be better value at #78.

Shouldn't the same concept apply to #7 or #10?

PT55

 

[bakes781]

7. The Patriots targeted #10 for their number 1 target in the draft (Mayo) yes over Chris Long and Gholston.

I'll buy that they had Mayo higher than Gholston, but not Chris Long. No way!

 

[mike100915]

Also, just for the icing on the cake here.
Ask yourself, If DRC was a good enough value for them at #7 (as Smith and Schefter) suggested when they said if they stay here. (by the way they didn't mention Mayo at #7).
PT55

They did mention Jerod Mayo. Michael Smith mentioned him when it was there time to pick. Also, they were still trying to move out of the #10 pick, there was video of it on Patriots.com, but in the end they went with Mayo because of his value. I think the only smokescreen was their interest in Sedrick Ellis, because in the end he did NOT fit there 3-4 defense. The reason they did look at DRC was because if they did move down further in the draft let's say 15, they would consider drafting him.

Also if Adam Schefter was used as you say he was. How many other picks was he wrong on? ZERO

Face it they liked Mayo alot, but they would have moved down further if given the oppurnity and take DRC, but at 10 DRC didn't give them the proper value that they wanted.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

They did mention Jerod Mayo. Michael Smith mentioned him when it was there time to pick. Also, they were still trying to move out of the #10 pick, there was video of it on Patriots.com, but in the end they went with Mayo because of his value. I think the only smokescreen was their interest in Sedrick Ellis, because in the end he did NOT fit there 3-4 defense. The reason they did look at DRC was because if they did move down further in the draft let's say 15, they would consider drafting him.

Also if Adam Schefter was used as you say he was. How many other picks was he wrong on? ZERO

Face it they liked Mayo alot, but they would have moved down further if given the oppurnity and take DRC, but at 10 DRC didn't give them the proper value that they wanted.

Mike,

Think about what your saying. Mayo wasn't mentioned first of all. If he was then they would've said the "Patriots will take Mayo if they can't trade down" he said "The Patriots will take DRC if they can't trade down". He was a pawn. IF DRC wasn't a smoke screen then why not pick him at #10 over Mayo. Then if they felt DRC was a value at #7 then they would have taken the additional trade down offer to the #15 and still picked him because that's value too good to pass on. The truth is he wasn't the option at ALL.

Ellis actually wasn't a smokescreen at all. He wasn't a good enough value to them at #7 than the trade down option. Period. By the way, I can prove it about Ellis. Read what I explained to Brady2Moss about how DRC was the Smokescreen to the Saints. It wasn't Ellis that got the deal done although they picked Ellis it was the Patriots "Smokescreen" of DRC that got that deal done. Saints didn't want to get in a bidding war with Cincy. So they were going to stay at #10 and pick DRC but the problem was this. They still would have had to trade with Baltimore to get in front of New England or risk the Patriots taking DRC at #9 because they felt New England had legit interest. That scare got the deal done. Nothing to do with Ellis.

You can doubt that's fine but I had no horse in this race.

The biggest (argueably) fan of DRC can see the "Smokescreen" then I can't see how you can't after I explained what happened. I have ZERO reason's to lie.

About the other trade. They turned down a trade at #10 because they didn't want to risk losing their Top target (Mayo). If DRC was worthy of #7 to them they would have taken that trade back to #15 and not even blinked.

PT55

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I'll buy that they had Mayo higher than Gholston, but not Chris Long. No way!

They like Gholston better than Long so naturally they liked Mayo better than both. I wont argue what you want to believe but for them to have taken either of these two players they would have to value them so much that they would be will to put AD back inside where he was alot more comfortable outside off the edge. To them neither player is that good to do that and neither has Mayo's upside to them.

Long is not going to get much better and doesn't project to a 3-4 as good as Gholston and he was to much of a questionmark. Mayo on the other hand is the total package and has room to grow.

Neither the Jets, Patriots or Dolphins were that high on Long. They ALL had Gholston rated higher for the 3-4 OLB position.

p.s. I already explained the "REAL" reason why the Dolphins threw out the name Chris Long on another thread. It had to do with contract negociations with Jake Long's agency (Condon's group) and the fact Gholston had the same agency.

PT55

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

About the other trade. They turned down a trade at #10 because they didn't want to risk losing their Top target (Mayo). If DRC was worthy of #7 to them they would have taken that trade back to #15 and not even blinked.

Any idea what we could have had to go from #10 to #15 ?

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

PT55,
Is the plan to bulk Crable up? He's awfully thin in his lower half, as BB mentioned in his presser. It doesn't look like he can anchor effectively with his current physique. Also, I was surprised they preferred Crable to Avril. What was the logic there?

Pony,

Yes he will add about 10-12 pounds of muscle, so he can be comfortable and not lose speed.

The three terms I've heard are:
1. Athleticism
2. Upside
3. Intelligence

as to why they preffered him over Avril. In the end Avril didn't grade out that well to them at all (to my surprise).

PT55

 

[Deus Irae]

Neither the Jets, Patriots or Dolphins were that high on Long. They ALL had Gholston rated higher for the 3-4 OLB position. PT55

Not according to Gary Myers:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=81887

 

[TealSox]

3) Mayo was their Top LB and not Rivers like some thought

6) Patriots aren't sold on Cassel at all. Thank God!

10) ESPN has the worst coverage of the Draft. NFL Network was far better,

When I was listening to the first round on NFL Network on Sirius, they reported while the Bengals were picking, the Patriots had Rivers' name written on the card and ready to turn in. After Rivers was snatched, the Pats were assumed to not miss their next best guy and went ahead to take Mayo with the 10th pick. It didn't help that the 49ers were rumored to be trying to move up to get Mayo.

Cassel out?

Cassel was going to be a project and has lasted longer than anyone could had expected. I don't see anything that makes me think he needs to go, but I think O'Connell has good size, a good arm and a good head on his shoulders. Lets not mistake that he is a project as well. Jason White of OU had the same coordinator and didn't pan out at the NFL level. Hopefully the difference is arm strength and size.

The NFL needs to take the Draft from ESPN and allow other networks to bid on it. I'm so sick of listening to idiots think they know more than teams. I'll take Casserly and any other former GM or coach, but I don't want to hear from Cris Carter, Kiper and the rest of them. ESPN is the epitome of media gone wrong.

Personally, Mayo made more sense than Rivers anyways. He had better size, first and foremost. And why would the Pats tip their hand as to picking Rivers and write it on a card before their pick even came up? Talk about smoke screen.

 

[BRiZ]

Wow PT55 you are delusional. DRC a smokescreen? LMAO sure buddy. The two guys they were targeting in round 1 were Mayo and DRC. They needed a stud ILB and a #1 corner. They chose the ILB route probably because it was a desperate need, and guys like Mayo dont come around too often. His character you couldnt pass up. Please just stop bashing DRC because you are wrong, he was the #1 corner on the pats board and if we didnt get Mayo we would have drafted him.

To BradyToMoss yea i was a little bummed they went ILB instead of CB, but im very happy with Mayo. Hes gunna be great for us, and i think with the new changes to defensive signals and defensive players being miked up Mayo is the perfect guy to implement that with.