Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[DoubleDeluxe]

You should pay closer attention

Have a great evening.

 

[palialka]

Patriots will have three major problems this season:

1. They will not be able to run the ball
2. They will not be able to stop the run
3. Injuries will KILL them and Vrabel is right they have no depth

Putting it all together, I suspect they will finish third in the AFC East. Yes, the Jets overall have a deeper and better roster (other than starting QB) and expectations are so low for the lowly Jets that they will overperform.

Patriots are not making the playoffs this year, which is a blessing in disguise because they need to continue to build depth and strengthen LB, Edge and RBs.

The SB appearance last year was a complete fluke and actually hurt the rebuilding process.

1. The running game should be better with an improved Oline. We haven’t seen the starting Oline, Stevenson and Henderson in any game yet so there’s no way you can definitely say they won’t be able to run the ball.

2. We haven’t seen the starting front seven play a single minute in the preseason, so again, how can you definitively state they won’t be able to stop the run?

3. You have no idea whether or not injuries will kill the Pats this season. Time will tell regarding depth.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

1. The running game should be better with an improved Oline. We haven’t seen the starting Oline, Stevenson and Henderson in any game yet so there’s no way you can definitely say they won’t be able to run the ball.

2. We haven’t seen the starting front seven play a single minute in the preseason, so again, how can you definitively state they won’t be able to stop the run?

3. You have no idea whether or not injuries will kill the Pats this season. Time will tell regarding depth.

Sam is literally a lost cause.
We could have the 85 Bears Defense and the 2007 Pats Offense and Sam would have us down as 0-16 and picking first over all.

 

[rkarp1]

I felt he was a better option than Elliss. Elliss doesn’t really think like a LB. He gets himself out of position, reads poorly and seemed lost in coverage. But he is a very good athlete.
I felt Gibbins would be better. Gibbins turned out to be slow and very blockable. Splitting time with Elliss would be fine, but stepping in for Spillane really exposed him

but my point wasn't "Gibbens better than Splliane or Ellis"
my point also wasn't "in the two games Gibbens played 100% of the defensive snaps"
lastly, my point wasn't "anyone can wear a green dot"
I am also not championing Gibbens as a great ILB

My point is the team still needs a vet ILB for depth, until perhaps Mausau or Obiazor or Jacobs might be. (or might never be)
Gibbens did provide that depth last season.
most importantly, the team won
wearing the green dot, he called the defensive signals, and often hardly came off the field.
he tackled well, covered and helped the defense to still excel while front line players like Spillane, WIlliams, Tonga all missed time.

today, I don't think the team has that luxury if Spillane or Ellis miss any time

 

[Salsalife]

No idea what this team is gonna look like. Preseason sucked, no starters for no plays. Only highlight joint practice video... clueless this year what it's gonna look like. Dissatisfaction with NFL. Good luck Patriots.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

No idea what this team is gonna look like. Preseason sucked, no starters for no plays. Only highlight joint practice video... clueless this year what it's gonna look like. Dissatisfaction with NFL. Good luck Patriots.

Has the pres-season ever been a good indicator of what a team will look in the regular season in the last several years?
Back in the day, yes starters would play. Most teams use to play their staters into the 3rd quarter of the third of four pre-season games, but those days are long gone.
Pretty sure we went 0-4 or 1-3 in some of our SB years.
I think the Lions might have gone 4-0 in the pre-season the year they went 0-16.
So most teams are in the same boat, we'll find out how they look week 1 of the regular season and beyond.

 

[rkarp1]

Has the pres-season ever been a good indicator of what a team will look in the regular season in the last several years?
Back in the day, yes starters would play. Most teams use to play their staters into the 3rd quarter of the third of four pre-season games, but those days are long gone.
Pretty sure we went 0-4 or 1-3 in some of our SB years.
I think the Lions might have gone 4-0 in the pre-season the year they went 0-16.
So most teams are in the same boat, we'll find out how they look week 1 of the regular season and beyond.

what I took away from the preseason;

-Devito, if needed, can play
-Williams has improved
-Lomu has nice potential but may not be ready until next year
-RB 3 is a question mark
-Raridon has the opportunity to contribute this season
-depth is a question mark for sure to start the season
-the OL will be better than last year

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

what I took away from the preseason;

-Devito, if needed, can play
-Williams has improved
-Lomu has nice potential but may not be ready until next year
-RB 3 is a question mark
-Raridon has the opportunity to contribute this season
-depth is a question mark for sure to start the season
-the OL will be better than last year

Devito was a bit of a mixed bag, but he certainly looks like a capable backup, agree on that one.
I have been big on KW since we drafted him and believe he will be a big part of team this year and beyond. His ability to dust defenders off the line is incredibly impressive.
Lomu needs development, no question. However he was playing with and against backups and future Amazon employees. I'm sure he will see the field a lot this year as a Swing and backup, he will have to learn on the fly, we will need him and use him this year.
I'm not so worried about RB3. We have Kiner and guys on the PS that can be called up, and in seasons signings if it gets to that.
The limited action we saw of Raridon, plus his TC play should have Pats fans excited. He will play, and play well. We haven't had a TE with his athleticism in a while. Another guy I'm excited about.
Depth is a question, but in all honesty no NFL is deep anymore, modern NFL economics make it hard if not impossible. And of course we see all the depth players on the field at the same time in the pre, which never happens in real games. I'm sure some of them will look better playing with better players.
OL should be much better with health, Wilson's switch to his natural position and AVT manning LG. Of course this is all on paper since they didn't play together in the pre.

One big takeaway I took from the pre was the fact the staters didn't play at all.
Now some could argue it's because we aren't deep enough to risk injury in the pre.
I like to think a reason most didn't play a single snap is because they are far enough along that Vrabs believes in the O and D and doses't need to see them in a meaningless game.

 

[Bill Lee]

No idea what this team is gonna look like. Preseason sucked, no starters for no plays. Only highlight joint practice video... clueless this year what it's gonna look like. Dissatisfaction with NFL. Good luck Patriots.

Just think: Right up till 1978, the NFL had 14 regular season games and 6 pre-season games, and of course the starters played.

The whole reason for having six pre-season games was so that the product was good by Game 1 of the regular season, so the starters played.

Now, the first few games of the season are what pre-season used to be, and the NFL doesn't give a bleep about the quality of the early games.

 

[Ring 6]

but my point wasn't "Gibbens better than Splliane or Ellis"
my point also wasn't "in the two games Gibbens played 100% of the defensive snaps"
lastly, my point wasn't "anyone can wear a green dot"
I am also not championing Gibbens as a great ILB

My point is the team still needs a vet ILB for depth, until perhaps Mausau or Obiazor or Jacobs might be. (or might never be)
Gibbens did provide that depth last season.
most importantly, the team won
wearing the green dot, he called the defensive signals, and often hardly came off the field.
he tackled well, covered and helped the defense to still excel while front line players like Spillane, WIlliams, Tonga all missed time.

today, I don't think the team has that luxury if Spillane or Ellis miss any time

Yeah my point was he wasn’t good so whoever we plug in there can’t be much worse. We could have kept him with an RFA tender but did not even tender him so that tells you how the coaching staff felt.

 

[rkarp1]

Yeah my point was he wasn’t good so whoever we plug in there can’t be much worse. We could have kept him with an RFA tender but did not even tender him so that tells you how the coaching staff felt.

I guess we differ on what constitutes "good" in a back up player.
Gibbens ended last season appearing in every game, starting 8. he played almost 500 defensive snaps (50%) and 281 ST snaps (64%).
81 tackles on defense. (5 missed tackles on defense)
I would opine for a back up, he was very good. Actually, very similar statistically to Elliss.
certainly the Pats were not going to pay both. (and Spillane)

 

[Thelonious]

Last year's defensive stats were, I think, somewhat misleading, inflated. The defense was not then as good as it seemed, and I think the necessary improvements on that side of the ball have not been made. The title of the thread asserts that the D is "not loaded." I don't recall that a great many people have said that it is. I hear far more talk re gaps in the roster and the pretty dismal lack of depth. It seems to me in general that the rebuild is not genuinely complete, notwithstanding all the genuine progress. Bill's failings in his past few years and the Mayo fiasco left the team in a dismal state. The rebuild, it seems to me, is progressing very well, but given the low point at which it genuinely began, with Vrabel's hiring, there remains work to be done.

 

[Wozzy]

I guess we differ on what constitutes "good" in a back up player.
Gibbens ended last season appearing in every game, starting 8. he played almost 500 defensive snaps (50%) and 281 ST snaps (64%).
81 tackles on defense. (5 missed tackles on defense)
I would opine for a back up, he was very good. Actually, very similar statistically to Elliss.
certainly the Pats were not going to pay both. (and Spillane)

A “good” player would have received a tender from the team, a not good player wouldn’t.

 

[Thelonious]

Everybody's backups are weak.

Every team is about 2 or 3 of the wrong injuries away from their season going south and that's not even including the QB scenario that goes without saying.

There aren't enough elite players for everyone in the league so it's obvious the drop off from a teams top players to backup is huge.

No one is going to survive cluster injuries at one position or losing 2 or 3 of their best players, you can maybe survive and scrape thru the regular season but your Super Bowl chances are basically dead, it's amazing how fast a dominant team can turn average in this league with a handful of injuries.

Say now, there's a cheery thought, a little too cheery for the actual facts of the matter. Obviously any team's backups will be inferior to its starters, and every team is, as your say, vulnerable to injuries. These are points without much of a point, however. The arguments from us less sanguine types is that though all teams have this vulnerability, our team is more vulnerable, because our backup roster is more weak than most. This is a simple fact, and not a surprising one, given the absolute turd of a condition in which the team was left by a failing Bill and a hopelessly incompetent Jerrod Mayo.

 

[Real fan 02]

also, don't forget Gilliam!

Yes! Huge pick up! Another guy I will say that will be huge this season is T. Arkin!

 

[Real fan 02]

A “good” player would have received a tender from the team, a not good player wouldn’t.

We seem to be very rich on LB depth.. guys may not be essentially ALL pros but the depth is vital in a 17 game season.

 

[Family]

A “good” player would have received a tender from the team, a not good player wouldn’t.

It's possible, even likely, the Patriots were aware of Arizona's offer when they declined the tender, knowing weren't going to match the guarantee. A tender does not have a guarantee.

March 9: Legal tampering begins → teams are already negotiating with pending UFAs.
March 11: Patriots don't tender Gibbens → he becomes a UFA at 4 p.m.
March 16: Gibbens signs with Arizona.

 

[rkarp1]

A “good” player would have received a tender from the team, a not good player wouldn’t.

the team could have tendered him as an RFA.
his salary would have been 1/$3.6m, and if another team offered more, the Pats had the rights to match.
he ended up with 2/$7.5m. Pats unwilling to go that deep for depth. doesn't mean he did not play well last season, nor that they adequately replaced him.
they did not

 

[rkarp1]

It's possible, even likely, the Patriots were aware of Arizona's offer when they declined the tender, knowing weren't going to match the guarantee. A tender does not have a guarantee.

March 9: Legal tampering begins → teams are already negotiating with pending UFAs.
March 11: Patriots don't tender Gibbens → he becomes a UFA at 4 p.m.
March 16: Gibbens signs with Arizona.

agreed

 

[Zuma]

A “good” player would have received a tender from the team, a not good player wouldn’t.

Such as Chad Muma you’re saying