Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[DoubleDeluxe]

also, don't forget Gilliam!

100%!
Sam being Sam.
His schtick is so old and overplayed.

 

[rkarp1]

You seem to think if you blind the board with meaningless numbers you can fool us all.

Jack Gibbens replaced Spillane as the starting middle LB weeks 15-17.

Rushing yards allowed by Patriot D (season rank)
Week 15: 168 yards (2nd most)
Week 16: 171 yards (1st most)
Week 17: 164 yards (3rd most)

The D gave up the three highest rushing totals on the entire season.

Not coincidentally he played for Elliss midseason and was bad in coverage.

He sucked. Which is why he's gone and playing as a backup (not a starter) in Arizona.

Learn the game.

when you talk about rushing yards allowed, close your eyes and make believe Milt Williams did not miss weeks 11 thru 17 and Tonga was inactive weeks 13, 14, 17 and 18
and while you are at it, make believe Chad Muma is still on the team to make yourself happy

 

[Wozzy]

when you talk about rushing yards allowed, close your eyes and make believe Milt Williams did not miss weeks 11 thru 17

The run defense and total defense were weaker. The run defense didn’t collapse.

Tonga was inactive weeks 13, 14, 17 and 18

Wrong. week 13 chest injury

17-19 foot injury

Two different injuries. The run defense didn’t collapse. They had good DT’s to fill in.

and while you are at it, make believe Chad Muma is still on the team to make yourself happy

This conversation is about Jack Gibbens

3 starts, 3 worst rushing totals on the season

Total collapse.

 

[rkarp1]

The run defense and total defense were weaker. The run defense didn’t collapse.

Wrong. week 13 chest injury

17-19 foot injury

Two different injuries. The run defense didn’t collapse. They had good DT’s to fill in.

This conversation is about Jack Gibbens

3 starts, 3 worst rushing totals on the season

Total collapse.

Williams, Tonga and Spillane did not play in those games. arguably, the teams 3 best run defenders
Gibbens filled in. played 100% of the defensive snaps in a couple of games, plus ST snaps.
lead the team in tackles. wore the green dot
the team won most every game, except for 1

he was a depth player...
that is what a good depth player does.

 

[mgteich]

can't you simply say you don't like Gibbens rather than lie about him?
defensive snaps played:
week 3-45%
week 4-45%
week 9-45%
week 10-60%
week 13-51%
week 15-100%
week 16-100%
week 17-59%
week 18-88%

this is defensive snaps played each game (not ST snaps) by a back up.
Gibbens is no longer here because another team paid him much more than the Pats
Gibbens never played poorly
he lead the team in tackles in a few games. he wore the green dot when Spillane was out
the team won every game he started except for 1...

the team needs a back up LB like Gibbens

Mausau may be that player.

 

[Ring 6]

can't you simply say you don't like Gibbens rather than lie about him?
defensive snaps played:
week 3-45%
week 4-45%
week 9-45%
week 10-60%
week 13-51%
week 15-100%
week 16-100%
week 17-59%
week 18-88%

this is defensive snaps played each game (not ST snaps) by a back up.
Gibbens is no longer here because another team paid him much more than the Pats
Gibbens never played poorly
he lead the team in tackles in a few games. he wore the green dot when Spillane was out
the team won every game he started except for 1...

the team needs a back up LB like Gibbens

Snaps played does not equal good. Tackles don’t either without context.
The 2 games he played 100% of the snaps we allowed 37-168-2 and
33-171-3.
That’s 169.5 rushing yards a game 2.5 rushing TDs and 4.8 ypc
In the other 15 games we allowed 93 rushing yards 4.1 per carry and a total of 6 rushing TDs in 15 games vs 5 in the 2 he played every snap.

The drop off of having him on the field was dramatic.

Pretty sure what he did with the opportunity to play is why we let him walk.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The only position they are worse at are Edge.

DL and LB are about the same.

 

[rkarp1]

Snaps played does not equal good. Tackles don’t either without context.
The 2 games he played 100% of the snaps we allowed 37-168-2 and
33-171-3.
That’s 169.5 rushing yards a game 2.5 rushing TDs and 4.8 ypc
In the other 15 games we allowed 93 rushing yards 4.1 per carry and a total of 6 rushing TDs in 15 games vs 5 in the 2 he played every snap.

The drop off of having him on the field was dramatic.

Pretty sure what he did with the opportunity to play is why we let him walk.

he is/was a back up/depth player
those games, Milton and Tonga also did not play.
what would those stats have been if Elliss was out, and Spillane, Milt and Tonga played along with Gibbens?
those stats are not a Gibbens issue, or a depth issue.
the team won most every game Spillane was out
context

 

[Wozzy]

Williams, Tonga and Spillane did not play in those games. arguably, the teams 3 best run defenders
Gibbens filled in. played 100% of the defensive snaps in a couple of games, plus ST snaps.
lead the team in tackles. wore the green dot
the team won most every game, except for 1

he was a depth player...
that is what a good depth player does.

The difference was there was depth at DT, there was no depth at ILB… they were thin.

The run defense was incrementally worse without Tonga and Williams. But middle LB’ers are usually where runs are funneled to and generally the leading tackler on your team.

Gibbens was terrible. The stats highlight that. You trying to put lipstick on a pig is hilarious.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Snaps played does not equal good. Tackles don’t either without context.
The 2 games he played 100% of the snaps we allowed 37-168-2 and
33-171-3.
That’s 169.5 rushing yards a game 2.5 rushing TDs and 4.8 ypc
In the other 15 games we allowed 93 rushing yards 4.1 per carry and a total of 6 rushing TDs in 15 games vs 5 in the 2 he played every snap.

The drop off of having him on the field was dramatic.

Pretty sure what he did with the opportunity to play is why we let him walk.

You were his biggest Champion last year.

 

[Ring 6]

he is/was a back up/depth player
those games, Milton and Tonga also did not play.
what would those stats have been if Elliss was out, and Spillane, Milt and Tonga played along with Gibbens?
those stats are not a Gibbens issue, or a depth issue.
the team won most every game Spillane was out
context

Yes he was a backup and when he needed to play he wasn’t good.
Feel free to find those stats.
It is what it is
Tonga did NOT miss those games.
Winning doesn’t mean every player played well, but since you mention it we had a run of 16-1 and the loss was one of the 2 Gibbins played 100%

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Agree, there are some holes to fill on the D. Thinking about filling from the bottom up is useful. I've been thinking of it more as about needing a difference maker at LB, someone who offenses have to scheme around, a game wrecker, that pushes some others down the depth chart and gives the rest of the front seven a little more operating room. It feel more like they are one player away. But you might be right to think about it as needing 3-4 good players to fill in underneath the starters.

Or think of it as how many units we can significantly improve on 1 year. The improvements went to OL, WR, and secondary this year. On the front 7, it’s not about game wreckers, it’s about treading water. Yes, the DL and LBs are not threats (though they might benefit from that secondary making them better, e.g., coverage sacks.)

It’s a team with a legit shot now, but imperfect.

 

[Hyped]

That is the reality of the NFL these days with the CBA not allowing us to practice as much as we used to, huge money being paid to starters, and injuries.... every team has depth issues for the most part. One injury can derail a team like Campbell's injury did in the Superbowl. I mean 14 pressures!

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

The difference was there was depth at DT, there was no depth at ILB… they were thin.

The run defense was incrementally worse without Tonga and Williams. But middle LB’ers are usually where runs are funneled to and generally the leading tackler on your team.

Gibbens was terrible. The stats highlight that. You trying to put lipstick on a pig is hilarious

I think both things are true.
Rkarps point of Tonga and Milt being injured are definitely valid.
However, I personally thought Gibbens was bad. Not sure I would say terrible, but he wasn’t good at all.
I do find it funny that Ring is now stating Gibbens was a problem on the field, when he said all preseason last year Gibbens would be a starter.
So Ring, were you wrong, or do we get the typical Ring spin on this?

 

[rkarp1]

Yes he was a backup and when he needed to play he wasn’t good.
Feel free to find those stats.
It is what it is
Tonga did NOT miss those games.
Winning doesn’t mean every player played well, but since you mention it we had a run of 16-1 and the loss was one of the 2 Gibbins played 100%

those 2 games he had 19 tackles and 3 TFL's
wearing the green dot
as a back up
is Obiazor doing that?
is Jacobs doing that?
is Muma even on an NFL team?
case closed

 

[Ring 6]

those 2 games he had 19 tackles and 3 TFL's
wearing the green dot
as a back up
is Obiazor doing that?
is Jacobs doing that?
is Muma even on an NFL team?
case closed

Ok Archie. You argue like him too.

Being the guy making the most tackles when you are getting dashed is not a good thing. A MLB making 19 tackles in 70 running plays is also not something to brag about.
Yiu act as if wearing the green dot is some kind of accomplishment or talent. Whoever plays that spot on the defense wears it. It’s not an award.
Any of those guys could make tackles while we are getting gashed for 170 rushing yards.

 

[Ring 6]

I think both things are true.
Rkarps point of Tonga and Milt being injured are definitely valid.
However, I personally thought Gibbens was bad. Not sure I would say terrible, but he wasn’t good at all.
I do find it funny that Ring is now stating Gibbens was a problem on the field, when he said all preseason last year Gibbens would be a starter.
So Ring, were you wrong, or do we get the typical Ring spin on this?

His “point” that Tonga was injured in those games in inaccurate. He started both.

I was very high on Gibbins before the season. He didn’t live up to it.
I don’t spin anything.

 

[Ring 6]

You were his biggest Champion last year.

I felt he was a better option than Elliss. Elliss doesn’t really think like a LB. He gets himself out of position, reads poorly and seemed lost in coverage. But he is a very good athlete.
I felt Gibbins would be better. Gibbins turned out to be slow and very blockable. Splitting time with Elliss would be fine, but stepping in for Spillane really exposed him

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

I was very high on Gibbins before the season. He didn’t live up to it.
I don’t spin anything.

Sincere kudos.
I most certainly didn't expect that.

 

[Ring 6]

Sincere kudos.
I most certainly didn't expect that.

You should pay closer attention