Patriots Player Departure Patriots are sending WR Kayshon Boutte to the Texans for safety Jaylen Reed and a draft pick

[Uptown]

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Byard is more of a FS. Reed is more of a SS or box safety. A good pass rusher. Not really equivalent to Byard.

Could be wrong, but I had always thought Vrabel wasn’t too specific on fs/ss types and it was more of a s1/s2 situation where both are reasonably versatile. If this is the case he could still play next to Woodson even if hes a different player than byard.

I still don’t know a ton about reed but from what i read after the trade he has good speed and has even pitched in at nickel (per barth and kays) so he sounds pretty versatile.

 

[PatsFan2]

But that was his role. He drew coverage and was not targetted often and was very effective when targetted. Take the top off.
Hollins doesn’t add anything like that. He’s just a guy you put out there and hope for mediocrity and he’s 32 years old.
Williams hopefully can be that but isn’t yet. If he is, there is your answer. If we are replace Boutte with Hollins or Douglas get easy for brown and Doubs to face more double teams end more defense is led in the short to intermediate area.

Pop and Chism have been working out the Slot with A.J. Brown and Doubs outside. McDaniels obviously have Big things for the Slot this season he has two candidates in Pop and Chism. Add in our TE's: I can't wait to see our real Offense come game one.

 

[Ross12]

A good point made in that Tanner James breakdown of Reed is that we really struggled defending the flat against the Eagles and maybe Reed helps out there as a big nickel.

"Reed has flashed some nice click-and-close ability, especially when covering tight ends or reacting to passes in the flats -- something the Patriots specifically struggled with against the Eagles. "

There was also an article posted last year which @mayoclinic shared in the draft forum which basically said that we use safeties as force players in the run game. The DLs job is to force the run outside - the EDGEs crashing inside - and the CBs are used to set the outside edge with the safeties being the ones to make the tackle. We saw that plenty with Woodson last year and now have the potential to have that with Reed also, covering both sides of the LoS.

Potential for Reed to be the big nickel and M.Jones to play more outside CB rotating with Davis?

 

[upstater1]

I don't see this as a good representation of reality. Williams and Boutte have different skill sets. One guy is a solid downfield contested catch guy, the other can outrun or out quick a defender. Boutte is what he is. Williams has the higher ceiling. We HOPE Williams will give us around 500 yds in a backup roll behind Doubs and AJ this season, anything more is a bonus

Look at the context of my entire post.

I was saying that just because other teams don't value Boutte, that should not mean the Patriots should set their values for him accordingly. He had value on the Patriots. 75% target rate, 17 yards per catch. That has a certain value. On other teams he'll struggle to produce like that because other teams don't have a guy with Maye's downfield accuracy. But this is precisely why he's valuable to the Patriots. He was locked on with Maye, they had a mindmeld together, alwyas on the same page. With Williams it was the opposite of that.

Now, I understand the argument that Brown and Doubs are now the top 2. But this is why I was comparing Boutte with Williams. For this trade to make sense, Williams has to up his game a lot. Remember, last year the vast majority of this board considered Williams a disappointment every single week. That doesn't mean he was a bust. It just means he hasn't proven anything yet.

All I'm saying is that IF Williams doesn't produce, then we will have a case -- yet again -- of the scouts and personnel people not being able to evaluate WRs.

 

[PatsFan2]

Potential for Reed to be the big nickel and M.Jones to play more outside CB rotating with Davis?

Love Marcus Jones but that wouldn't be using him to his abilities. With these Big WR's Today he would be targeted there 5'8 would get abused.

 

[manxman2601]

Potential for Reed to be the big nickel and M.Jones to play more outside CB rotating with Davis?

I think him more likely to play big nickel instead of a linebacker in a 4-2-5, or replacing Jones when faced with a big slot. Jones struggled against Drake London in that role if you remember. And with offenses moving more and more towards 2&3 TE sets, a big nickel makes sense. I do wish he was bigger. 6' is not quite a big nickel.

 

[Real fan 02]

that 2028 6th wasn't worth using a roster spot for a year.

We all have to understand whatever the team got was where K. Boutte's market was around the league. A guy who's surrounded that Texans team with a kings ransom of talent especially on defense in Caserio knows full well. If the team had been offered better than what Texans offered he'd had been moved earlier when he initially requested a trade after we signed Doubs.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, he was inconsistent before his injury. You have no idea if his injury had anything to do with his play a month or two after he was injured. You are just assuming that.

But at least you are admitting we don't enough information for you to make judgement of whether he is good or not. Eight games is not enough to make a judgement on a player. Especially when he wasn't anything special in half of them.

I’m not assuming anything I watched him play.

Again you pretend that good WRs produce the same thing week in and week out which I debunked yesterday.

If you didn’t recognize what Boutte brought to the offense as a take the top off guy with a ridiculous catch % on low percentage routes, which opened up other receivers routes, and a guy with an exceptional ability to track and catch deep balls, you should get your nose out of stat book and stop trying to find ways to knock a guy and watch football.

 

[Clonamery]

You really think Reed is in danger of not making the team? They clearly like this player and I can see why. He was injured last year (a metal plate inserted in his forearm in college broke) but when he played he was solid. He is a box safety who should help against the run. Now you can argue they did not get enough, or should have kept Boutte, but no chance the guy they just got back for him does not make the team. The PR fall out would make this outcry look like a nothing burger. I would have preferred to keep Boutte for the first month of the season just to make sure everything is working out as expected and for insurance. If everything was good after the first month, then trade him. But they decided to do Kayshon a solid and trade him now. One thing I will miss about Boutte is how strong he is. Not easy to move him and it shows on his contested catches.

Yup, he's making the team. He was taken at #187 in the Draft. He is a good against the run but can't cover a one-legged, San Juan, Puerto Rican street dog.

 

[PatsFan2]

Look at the context of my entire post.

I was saying that just because other teams don't value Boutte, that should not mean the Patriots should set their values for him accordingly. He had value on the Patriots. 75% target rate, 17 yards per catch. That has a certain value. On other teams he'll struggle to produce like that because other teams don't have a guy with Maye's downfield accuracy. But this is precisely why he's valuable to the Patriots. He was locked on with Maye, they had a mindmeld together, alwyas on the same page. With Williams it was the opposite of that.

Now, I understand the argument that Brown and Doubs are now the top 2. But this is why I was comparing Boutte with Williams. For this trade to make sense, Williams has to up his game a lot. Remember, last year the vast majority of this board considered Williams a disappointment every single week. That doesn't mean he was a bust. It just means he hasn't proven anything yet.

All I'm saying is that IF Williams doesn't produce, then we will have a case -- yet again -- of the scouts and personnel people not being able to evaluate WRs.

People here have short memories and want to justify everything the FO does even if it's questionable. I wonder how they felt after Boutte made that insane catch that sealed the game against the Texans. I remember reading lock Boutte up now or when we can: if we could turn back time. Reid better be a player and solid contributor.

 

[Ring 6]

I think him more likely to play big nickel instead of a linebacker in a 4-2-5, or replacing Jones when faced with a big slot. Jones struggled against Drake London in that role if you remember. And with offenses moving more and more towards 2&3 TE sets, a big nickel makes sense. I do wish he was bigger. 6' is not quite a big nickel.

Big nickel wasn’t really a thing last year with the Patriots and doesn’t seem to be in Vrables defense.

 

[Rob0729]

But that was his role. He drew coverage and was not targetted often and was very effective when targetted. Take the top off.
Hollins doesn’t add anything like that. He’s just a guy you put out there and hope for mediocrity and he’s 32 years old.
Williams hopefully can be that but isn’t yet. If he is, there is your answer. If we are replace Boutte with Hollins or Douglas get easy for brown and Doubs to face more double teams end more defense is led in the short to intermediate area.

Teams didn't design coverages to target Boutte. If it was anyone they did that for, it was Diggs. And I don't think most defensive coordinators respected anyone on the Patriots offense enough to design coverages to take them out leaving other receivers open.

And Boutte's catch rate is similar to Hollins and Pop while Diggs caught a far higher percentage. And Diggs and Hollins got far more targets. Boutte caught 71.7% of his passes. Diggs caught 83.3%. Hollins caught 70.7%. Pop caught 67.4% (both Boutte and Pop were targeted 46 times with Boutte catching two more passes than Pop).

Williams or Boutte would be at best the #4 WR on this team if both were still here. Neither would be asked to draw coverage away from other receivers to make plays. Both would only be targeted a handful of time a game. Williams is fine as a #4 or #5 WR. You wouldn't be asking either Williams or Boutte to be the #1 or #2 receiving option on this team.

The only way any of what you say matters in this is if AJ Brown goes down for an extended period of time and either Boutte or Williams were asked to step into a starting role for 3-4 games or more.

 

[manxman2601]

Big nickel wasn’t really a thing last year with the Patriots and doesn’t seem to be in Vrables defense.

It wasn't but it's a direction the league is going in. We've just had a draft where inline TEs were overvalued demonstrating a potential need for a big nickel to combat more multi-TE sets. I'm sure Vrabel isn't inflexible when it comes to defense.

 

[Rob0729]

I’m not assuming anything I watched him play.

Again you pretend that good WRs produce the same thing week in and week out which I debunked yesterday.

If you didn’t recognize what Boutte brought to the offense as a take the top off guy with a ridiculous catch % on low percentage routes, which opened up other receivers routes, and a guy with an exceptional ability to track and catch deep balls, you should get your nose out of stat book and stop trying to find ways to knock a guy and watch football.

I think Boutte is a good, not great WR. I think he is a good #3/#4 WR.

I watched Boutte play, but I also watched Drake Maye play. Maye got balls to Boutte into tight windows in good coverage. A lot of QBs wouldn't complete some of the passes to Boutte that Maye made because Boutte wasn't great at getting separation. He won a lot 50-50 ball or balls into tight coverage. Sometimes Boutte took the top off, many times he was covered. So think another receiver can replace that. I think Doubs will do better in those situations.

If you look at most of the stats out there, the Pats receivers were not very good at getting separation in general. They benefitted from one of the most accurate deep ball passers in recent history.

 

[Ross12]

I think him more likely to play big nickel instead of a linebacker in a 4-2-5, or replacing Jones when faced with a big slot. Jones struggled against Drake London in that role if you remember. And with offenses moving more and more towards 2&3 TE sets, a big nickel makes sense. I do wish he was bigger. 6' is not quite a big nickel.

Gives them more matchup flexibility. Jones is a good slot corner but teams will abuse his size if they can by playing big players there. So, a counter to that is someone like Reed in that spot.

On the outside, there will also be times where a player is too fast for Davis and you might want to put Jones on him as long as his stature is not a problem. Davis is also not an iron man and tends to get banged up frequently, so having more overall fringe starting-caliber secondary depth to mix and match is good.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Ross12]

Love Marcus Jones but that wouldn't be using him to his abilities. With these Big WR's Today he would be targeted there 5'8 would get abused.

It would certainly depend on the matchup. There are small-to-midsize burner WRs that play outside who he could cover fine, potentially better than Davis, who isn't as fast.

 

[manxman2601]

It's interesting that Reed was drafted in the same draft Woodson was. I wonder how close we had him graded to Woodson. Maybe it was close and they saw this trade as a way to double up.

 

[Clonamery]

It's interesting that Reed was drafted in the same draft Woodson was. I wonder how close we had him graded to Woodson. Maybe it was close and they saw this trade as a way to double up.

They could have taken Reed way before Texans at 187. If they truly wanted him.