I am expecting a pro bowl season

[Ring 6]

how many times do I need to reinforce that Maye can continue to make off platform plays and extend plays with his legs, but still cut down on negative plays?
no one is saying he needs to dink and dunk
no one is saying he needs to play conservatively
but if he comes to the los and he sees the defense is in a formation not conducive to the play call, he needs to audible or kill the play and run something else, or simply run a play that does not result in negative yards or turn overs.
that said, this continues to go over your head, so why further discuss?

Wait.

Your argument is about looking at the defense and changing the play because you think he can determine at the line of scrimmage that the play is going to go bad?
I don’t know why you are saying “reinforce” because this is literally the first time you have said that. Or anything close to that.

Previously you said:

Maye often holds the ball too long and/or tries to make a hero play with his legs, resulting in a loss of yards, or him fumbling.
We have seen numerous QB's like that early in their career, mitigate those 2 issues, with out losing their ability to make big plays with their feet, or with their down field throws.

were attributed to Maye holding onto the ball too long to create extension plays, wandering into defensive traffic, or running out of bounds for a minor loss during scramble drills.

if Maye can cut his sacks in half simply by throwing to his check down, or throwing the ball away, without giving up his ability to make plays with his legs, this is easily a playoff team, capable of beating anyone.

Which are all examples of being conservative cutting out off platform plays and being dunk and dunk

Are you arguing just to argue?

 

[rkarp1]

Wait.

Your argument is about looking at the defense and changing the play because you think he can determine at the line of scrimmage that the play is going to go bad?
I don’t know why you are saying “reinforce” because this is literally the first time you have said that. Or anything close to that.

Previously you said:

Maye often holds the ball too long and/or tries to make a hero play with his legs, resulting in a loss of yards, or him fumbling.
We have seen numerous QB's like that early in their career, mitigate those 2 issues, with out losing their ability to make big plays with their feet, or with their down field throws.

were attributed to Maye holding onto the ball too long to create extension plays, wandering into defensive traffic, or running out of bounds for a minor loss during scramble drills.

if Maye can cut his sacks in half simply by throwing to his check down, or throwing the ball away, without giving up his ability to make plays with his legs, this is easily a playoff team, capable of beating anyone.

Which are all examples of being conservative cutting out off platform plays and being dunk and dunk

Are you arguing just to argue?

I have been consistent in what I have said
you are reading into something that you are adamant about, but I never said
what I am inferring is not conservative nor dink and dunk. it is playing smarter. making better decisions. not putting the ball (or body) in harms way (fumbles)

 

[mgteich]

We now have Campbell and Moses as starting OTs, with Lomu, Bryant, Crownover, Metz, Hudson, Wallace, and possibly even Gutierrez behind them. Seems like good depth at tackle.

Seems to me the bigger questions now are OG and C. Depth at C seems thin, and depth and durability plus future replacements are concerns at guard. After Ben Brown it looks like Rizy, Gutierrez and Wallace are the depth at IOL. Do we see other players listed at OT possibly playing guard, or is that an area of concern?

Yes, a 2nd backup OG/OC is an area of concern. My preference is a veteran who could backup both guard and center, even if he is inactive barring injury to one of the top 4 IOL's. I would also like to have 3 OL backups on the IR: an OT, an OG and a C.

We have the incumbents Brown and Wallace.

Competing for Wallace's spot are Rizy, Rupcich, Gutierrez, Morgan and Butler.

I would note that AVT can move over to the right side if Onwenu is injured. Brown is an OK LG backup.

 

[Ring 6]

I have been consistent in what I have said
you are reading into something that you are adamant about, but I never said
what I am inferring is not conservative nor dink and dunk. it is playing smarter. making better decisions. not putting the ball (or body) in harms way (fumbles)

I can’t keep track because you keep changing what you say (and I reposted them for you)

You started by saying he holds the ball too long and tries to make “hero plays”

Is that or is that not saying you want him to be more conservative?
To me it is the definition of it.

The problem with that is he makes a f#ckimg whole lot of big plays by doing that.

Then you again said “extension plays” are bad.

This is the heart of the debate.
If you Coach him to not extend plays, then you are coaching him to either check down (becoming dunk and dunk) or just throw the ball away, so you by definition are coaching away the big plays he makes.

Then out of the blue you changed your argument to “he should change to running plays at the line when he sees the defense is going to be a problem”
So in addition to the obtuse view that a qb can walk up to the line and see he is going to get sacked, and the ignorance that defenses would just line up whichever way you think would cause that, it is inconsistent with any word you previously wrote here.

Now you’ve gone back to changing that one to “I’ve been consistent” and that you think you can coach a qb to stop doing the things that create big plays but not cut down on big plays.

In essence what you are sating is you want to magically get rid of bad plays but not change anything else by changing the mentality of the big play maker.

This amounts to saying I bet on games and sometimes I win and sometimes I lose so I am going to not bet any more so I dint lose any but I expect to still win.

 

[Wozzy]

We now have Campbell and Moses as starting OTs, with Lomu, Bryant, Crownover, Metz, Hudson, Wallace, and possibly even Gutierrez behind them. Seems like good depth at tackle.

Seems to me the bigger questions now are OG and C. Depth at C seems thin, and depth and durability plus future replacements are concerns at guard. After Ben Brown it looks like Rizy, Gutierrez and Wallace are the depth at IOL. Do we see other players listed at OT possibly playing guard, or is that an area of concern?

When you have that man quality tackle prospects they are deep on the interior when you realize Campbell and Lomu can easily play guard.

Don’t think of them rigidly as tackles and it makes sense.

 

[rkarp1]

I can’t keep track because you keep changing what you say (and I reposted them for you)

You started by saying he holds the ball too long and tries to make “hero plays”

Is that or is that not saying you want him to be more conservative?
To me it is the definition of it.

The problem with that is he makes a f#ckimg whole lot of big plays by doing that.

Then you again said “extension plays” are bad.

This is the heart of the debate.
If you Coach him to not extend plays, then you are coaching him to either check down (becoming dunk and dunk) or just throw the ball away, so you by definition are coaching away the big plays he makes.

Then out of the blue you changed your argument to “he should change to running plays at the line when he sees the defense is going to be a problem”
So in addition to the obtuse view that a qb can walk up to the line and see he is going to get sacked, and the ignorance that defenses would just line up whichever way you think would cause that, it is inconsistent with any word you previously wrote here.

Now you’ve gone back to changing that one to “I’ve been consistent” and that you think you can coach a qb to stop doing the things that create big plays but not cut down on big plays.

In essence what you are sating is you want to magically get rid of bad plays but not change anything else by changing the mentality of the big play maker.

This amounts to saying I bet on games and sometimes I win and sometimes I lose so I am going to not bet any more so I dint lose any but I expect to still win.

my reply to the portion above in bold is emphatically...NO!
smarter is not more conservative

that's the crux of what you are not understanding, or refusing to acknowledge simply to be argumentative.

check down is not dink and dunk

getting rid of bad plays is not magic. it is understanding what the defense is doing, or understanding the offense may not be in a situation to have a mismatch or advantage.

Maye played 8-9 games his rookie season. technically, midway thru 2025, he still did not have a full season of games under his belt.
the mental aspect is a ton to put on a young, inexperienced QB. Maye did great. He can do better. We saw that clear as day in the playoffs.
in the reg season, the offense was putting up 30+ points per game. in the playoffs, the offense put up games with 16, 10 and 13 points. Maye completed 58% of his passes. not 72% of his passes. he had 4 int's in 4 games. he took 21 sacks in 4 games.

 

[Ring 6]

my reply to the portion above in bold is emphatically...NO!
smarter is not more conservative

that's the crux of what you are not understanding, or refusing to acknowledge simply to be argumentative.

check down is not dink and dunk

getting rid of bad plays is not magic. it is understanding what the defense is doing, or understanding the offense may not be in a situation to have a mismatch or advantage.

Maye played 8-9 games his rookie season. technically, midway thru 2025, he still did not have a full season of games under his belt.
the mental aspect is a ton to put on a young, inexperienced QB. Maye did great. He can do better. We saw that clear as day in the playoffs.
in the reg season, the offense was putting up 30+ points per game. in the playoffs, the offense put up games with 16, 10 and 13 points. Maye completed 58% of his passes. not 72% of his passes. he had 4 int's in 4 games. he took 21 sacks in 4 games.

Checking down, giving up on extending plays and throwing the ball away is by definition being more conservative.
Checking down instead of waiting for deeper routes to come open as a practice is by definition dink and dunk. We’ve reached the point where your arguing the earth is flat water isn’t wet and hot water freezes faster than cold water.

The fact is we became way more conservative in the playoffs. We kinda did what you are asking for. We feared the pass rush and played small ball.

We were the second best offense in the NFL. By far the biggest reason for that was the QB, his decision making, his ability to extend plays, and make big plays consistently.
Your answer is we get better by changing to QB and teaching him short passes are better and don’t extend plays any more.
You are exactly 180 degrees from correct

 

[rkarp1]

Checking down, giving up on extending plays and throwing the ball away is by definition being more conservative.
Checking down instead of waiting for deeper routes to come open as a practice is by definition dink and dunk. We’ve reached the point where your arguing the earth is flat water isn’t wet and hot water freezes faster than cold water.

The fact is we became way more conservative in the playoffs. We kinda did what you are asking for. We feared the pass rush and played small ball.

We were the second best offense in the NFL. By far the biggest reason for that was the QB, his decision making, his ability to extend plays, and make big plays consistently.
Your answer is we get better by changing to QB and teaching him short passes are better and don’t extend plays any more.
You are exactly 180 degrees from correct

the bold is where we disagree and will not reach an agreement
I am fine with that

the itallics I do not agree with. the offense was effective because the QB was extremely accurate, short, intermediate and deep. He also was able to avoid int's in the regular season. and yes, his ability to extend plays with his legs.
I will continue to maintain, he can cut his fumbles in half, and his sack totals by a third, and not give up an inch of aggressiveness.
and I believe he can cut the fumbles/sacks with smarter decision making, not less aggressiveness.

 

[Ring 6]

the bold is where we disagree and will not reach an agreement
I am fine with that

the itallics I do not agree with. the offense was effective because the QB was extremely accurate, short, intermediate and deep. He also was able to avoid int's in the regular season. and yes, his ability to extend plays with his legs.
I will continue to maintain, he can cut his fumbles in half, and his sack totals by a third, and not give up an inch of aggressiveness.
and I believe he can cut the fumbles/sacks with smarter decision making, not less aggressiveness.

Im sorry but the English language says you are wrong about the first part.

For the second part again I have to ask whether you actually watched the games. Again you bring up turnovers are we were excellent at limiting turnovers, one of the best in the league. Maye time after time escaped the rush extended the play and completed passes down the field and a good percentage of our scoring drives depended upon him doing that.

Your premise has been he should stop extending plays. None of those plays happen if he is coached to do that. Sacks happen when you extend the play instead of checking down or throwing the ball away and big plays happen as well. It is literally impossible to stop extending plays and still make the plays you made because you extended them.

 

[rkarp1]

Im sorry but the English language says you are wrong about the first part.

For the second part again I have to ask whether you actually watched the games. Again you bring up turnovers are we were excellent at limiting turnovers, one of the best in the league. Maye time after time escaped the rush extended the play and completed passes down the field and a good percentage of our scoring drives depended upon him doing that.

Your premise has been he should stop extending plays. None of those plays happen if he is coached to do that. Sacks happen when you extend the play instead of checking down or throwing the ball away and big plays happen as well. It is literally impossible to stop extending plays and still make the plays you made because you extended them.

fumbles are turnovers. Maye had 8 fumbles in the reg season and 7 fumbles in the playoffs
I have never once mentioned he should not extend plays.
you seem to equate smart decision making to aggressiveness. I am able to see they are not the same.

you also seem to ignore holding the ball too long
why?

 

[Ring 6]

fumbles are turnovers. Maye had 8 fumbles in the reg season and 7 fumbles in the playoffs
I have never once mentioned he should not extend plays.
you seem to equate smart decision making to aggressiveness. I am able to see they are not the same.

you also seem to ignore holding the ball too long
why?

I included the fumbles in the turnovers totals which were a positive statistic for the patriots.

You mentioned many times he shouldn’t extend plays, including right here where you say he shouldn’t hold the ball too long. Thats how you extend plays.
You started out by saying he holds the ball too long trying to make hero plays.
Are you saying you changed your mind and aren’t saying that any more?
He made a ton of “hero plays” by holding the ball and extending plays. Saying he shouldn’t hold the ball is exactly saying he shouldn’t extend plays.


Let’s try this way.

When Maye drops back to pass and has pressure he can either
1) do everything he can to avoid the pressure, escape the rush, extend the play which creates downfield passing opportunities or scramble a d run
Or
2) get rid of the ball

If he does 2 he cannot do 1.

I want him to do 1. He is elite at 1. He made a ton of plays last year doing 1. We are a better team if he does 1.

You are arguing he should do 2.

I say if you coach him to do 2 you take away his and the offenses biggest weapon.

 

[Ring 6]

We now have Campbell and Moses as starting OTs, with Lomu, Bryant, Crownover, Metz, Hudson, Wallace, and possibly even Gutierrez behind them. Seems like good depth at tackle.

Seems to me the bigger questions now are OG and C. Depth at C seems thin, and depth and durability plus future replacements are concerns at guard. After Ben Brown it looks like Rizy, Gutierrez and Wallace are the depth at IOL. Do we see other players listed at OT possibly playing guard, or is that an area of concern?

Lomu is G depth as well until he starts at T. He will be the 1st off the bench at both T and G spots until he starts at RT.