Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[DaBruinz]

For 4th corner there aren’t any teams out there praying they only had woods, vildor and dial. Who knows how they will turn out but most likely is they are not cb4 caliber players and should be end of the bench special teamers or practice squad hopefuls.

As is typical, your reading comprehension sucks.
You clearly haven't bothered to look at other teams 4th/5th CBs so your opinion is worthless.

 

[Wozzy]

For 4th corner there aren’t any teams out there praying they only had woods, vildor and dial. Who knows how they will turn out but most likely is they are not cb4 caliber players and should be end of the bench special teamers or practice squad hopefuls.

Vildor is already a good 4th CB on any roster, but he’s got a lot of competition in Prunty who is a rookie sure, but a mature rookie who played a lot of college snaps.

Kenneth Harris and Channing Canada are also two athletic rookies with speed. With those 4 I have no doubt they’ll find backups behind the big 3 CB’s and are ALREADY substantially better than last year where they had nobody.

Many posters were wrong on their predictions for 2025 and called it “a rebuilding year” or said it would take time to turn it around.

It didn’t because this regime was great at finding free agent, rookie and UDFA talent. They look to have done the same in 2026, the notion in year two they’re going to be less deep is silly barring mass injuries.

 

[n1997y]

Vildor is already a good 4th CB on any roster, but he’s got a lot of competition in Prunty who is a rookie sure, but a mature rookie who played a lot of college snaps.

Kenneth Harris and Channing Canada are also two athletic rookies with speed. With those 4 I have no doubt they’ll find backups behind the big 3 CB’s and are ALREADY substantially better than last year where they had nobody.

Many posters were wrong on their predictions for 2025 and called it “a rebuilding year” or said it would take time to turn it around.

It didn’t because this regime was great at finding free agent, rookie and UDFA talent. They look to have done the same in 2026, the notion in year two they’re going to be less deep is silly barring mass injuries.

There were two complementary accomplishments pretty much across the roster last year. The new staff identified talent from cheaper sources, journeyman FAs, draft and UDFA rookies, and then they developed and integrated those players to turn that talent into significant contributions. To me the more important accomplishment was giving those players opportunities and having the players take advantage of them. Gibbens is a great example, a cheap acquisition that out performed expectations and was rewarded for it.

It looks like they’ve laid the groundwork to do the same again this year. They’ve signed a good collection of players. Now it’s up to those players to take advantage and make the most of the opportunity. There are enough candidates that they may not all succeeed, but camp will weed out the ones who fall behind. I expect the rest will be another good crop of rising contributors. Let the cream rise, as it will.

 

[Real fan 02]

There were two complementary accomplishments pretty much across the roster last year. The new staff identified talent from cheaper sources, journeyman FAs, draft and UDFA rookies, and then they developed and integrated those players to turn that talent into significant contributions. To me the more important accomplishment was giving those players opportunities and having the players take advantage of them. Gibbens is a great example, a cheap acquisition that out performed expectations and was rewarded for it.

It looks like they’ve laid the groundwork to do the same again this year. They’ve signed a good collection of players. Now it’s up to those players to take advantage and make the most of the opportunity. There are enough candidates that they may not all succeeed, but camp will weed out the ones who fall behind. I expect the rest will be another good crop of rising contributors. Let the cream rise, as it will.

Agreed. I'm really high on Ponder and Jacas. As I feel going forward those q young guys will be the anchors at edge.. while still feel we are due to add some depth there the thesis of your post is spot on accurate!!

 

[Wozzy]

There were two complementary accomplishments pretty much across the roster last year. The new staff identified talent from cheaper sources, journeyman FAs, draft and UDFA rookies, and then they developed and integrated those players to turn that talent into significant contributions. To me the more important accomplishment was giving those players opportunities and having the players take advantage of them. Gibbens is a great example, a cheap acquisition that out performed expectations and was rewarded for it.

It looks like they’ve laid the groundwork to do the same again this year. They’ve signed a good collection of players. Now it’s up to those players to take advantage and make the most of the opportunity. There are enough candidates that they may not all succeeed, but camp will weed out the ones who fall behind. I expect the rest will be another good crop of rising contributors. Let the cream rise, as it will.

Or exactly what I said…. and the polar opposite of 2024.

My point is why are people here suggesting year two of a regime that clearly is good at identifying and developing talent and who have all the resources in the world going to allow their depth of talent get worse?

They won’t… Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer entering 2026 is a much better ILB group of backups than Gibbens, 29 year old Tavai coming off serious injury and Mapu who has never developed entering 2025.

Kindle Vildor, Karon Prunty, Kenneth Harris, Channing Canada entering 2026 is a much better group of backup CB’s than wildly overrated Alex Austin, poor athletes like Charles Wood, Kobee Minor and DJ James entering 2025.

They need to stay healthy… but that describes all 32 NFL teams. They’re more talented… if someone doesn’t think so… I’d suggest to take your Zoloft and learn how to scout.

 

[Family]

Go ahead and list all the 4th CBs on other teams and tell me how many of them are quality starting players.

While Woods is likely a jag defensively, he's an excellent special teams player. While he played 130 defensive snaps, he was only targeted 9 times (6.9%) and gave up 7 completions. Compare that to Alex Austin who was targeted 12 times on 144 snaps (8.3%) and gave up 10 completions.

Vildor played 164 defensive snaps, was targeted 22 times(13.4%) and gave up 13 receptions (59.1%).

I'm not guaranteeing either of them a roster spot by any means. But you're ignoring the reality that team's 4th corners are either going to be a JAG Vet who excels on special teams or a rookie that the team is hoping to step up. The fact that Woods and Vildor both have experience as a 4th CB and that Vildor has starting experience gives them a leg up.

I fully expect Prunty to make the team. Watching him play, he seems to have the right amount of "IT", Swagger, and Instincts. Whether that actually transfers to the NFL awaits to be seen.

But the DEPTH that the Pats have, now, with Woods, Vildor, Dial, and Prunty behind the top 3, on paper, is very good.

Hitching your wagon to anything Andy says is a fools errand.

Who is our backup outside corner?

Currently I don't view the backups at this position to be the caliber of the team's backups at many of the other positions (WR/RB\OL/DL/S/QB.

So I'm just judging team relative strength, not who might be better than whom on other teams.

TE has become a weakness since I made the statement or knew about the injury, and of course there LB.

I put outside corner about next.

 

[rkarp1]

Or exactly what I said…. and the polar opposite of 2024.

My point is why are people here suggesting year two of a regime that clearly is good at identifying and developing talent and who have all the resources in the world going to allow their depth of talent get worse?

They won’t… Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer entering 2026 is a much better ILB group of backups than Gibbens, 29 year old Tavai coming off serious injury and Mapu who has never developed entering 2025.

Kindle Vildor, Karon Prunty, Kenneth Harris, Channing Canada entering 2026 is a much better group of backup CB’s than wildly overrated Alex Austin, poor athletes like Charles Wood, Kobee Minor and DJ James entering 2025.

They need to stay healthy… but that describes all 32 NFL teams. They’re more talented… if someone doesn’t think so… I’d suggest to take your Zoloft and learn how to scout.

thats a foolish comment, and you know that
Tavai, Gibbons and Mapu have combined over 200 nfl games played. Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer have less than 60, and only Muma has played defensive snaps
none of those 4 are a roster lock.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

thats a foolish comment, and you know that
Tavai, Gibbons and Mapu have combined over 200 nfl games played. Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer have less than 60, and only Muma has played defensive snaps
none of those 4 are a roster lock.

His name is Jack Gibbens. Gibbens, not Gibbons.

 

[Wozzy]

thats a foolish comment, and you know that
Tavai, Gibbons and Mapu have combined over 200 nfl games played. Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer have less than 60, and only Muma has played defensive snaps
none of those 4 are a roster lock.

A player can float around on bad teams and accumulate snaps... that doesn't make them good.

You know this because PFF told you Chuks, Michael Jordan and Leverett were "good" signings in 2024 because they played a lot in otherwise bad situations prior where they were basically forced too. James Hudson has played a lot... sight unseen is he better option than Lomu, Bryant or Crownover? No is the answer... the unknown of the rookies is better than the known of Hudson.

So what you said was foolish... again, this regime has been great at recognizing free agent and rookie talent then developing it. Last year's backups weren't good, which is why they're gone from the AFC Champ's roster.

They're in year two of layering this roster with improved depth, they have the money, cap space, draft picks and means to improve. Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer is a marked improvement in youthful athleticism alone... at least one or two will make and contribute to this 2026 team... don't be daft... they're not rostering two ILB's.

I'd conservatively say 90% of this board is better at scouting than you, the Patriots brass is substantially better.

 

[Wozzy]

Who is our backup outside corner?
I put outside corner about next.

Vildor, Karon Prunty, Kenneth Harris and Canada are tweeners, they're not exactly big... but they're also not small. The classic Patriots tweener CB was Asante Samuel, he wasn't overly physical or big, but he was athletic and long enough to hold up on the outside with a big CB opposite him covering the opponents best big WR. Vildor and Harris at least are also pretty strong as far as CB's go. Vildor is a seasoned vet.

Considering we're talking about the 4th and 5th CB's on this roster, we're substantially better off than last year.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I get there's nothing to discuss, but some of you are really picky even going down the bottom barrel of the roster hoping for better depth at the CB position.

Most teams don't don't even have one solid CB on their team. The Pats have a good tandem on the outside.

 

[Family]

I get there's nothing to discuss, but some of you are really picky even going down the bottom barrel of the roster hoping for better depth at the CB position.

Most teams don't don't even have one solid CB on their team. The Pats have a good tandem on the outside.

The thread title is "Our defense is not loaded; our backups are weak."

What kind of discussion would you expect?

Whether Kraft or Bill was the one who was cheap???

 

[TheRainMaker]

The thread title is "Our defense is not loaded; our backups are weak."

What kind of discussion would you expect?

None actually, but I appreciate the OP starting threads to create discussion. The Pats depth is par for the course in the NFL. I'll say it again, teams are already having a hard time just putting together quality starters at CB and many other positions. It sure is a bummer when our 3rd-4th CB on the team is weak and not future Pro Bowlers like Asante Samuel, Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson. Pats are lucky they have one All Pro/Pro Bowl CB and a very solid player opposite of him. How many teams can say that? The Rams just had to give up trade capital and sign McDuffie to a massive extension and yet their secondary still isn't good.

Whether Kraft or Bill was the one who was cheap???

That was more interesting.

 

[mgteich]

thats a foolish comment, and you know that
Tavai, Gibbons and Mapu have combined over 200 nfl games played. Muma, Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer have less than 60, and only Muma has played defensive snaps
none of those 4 are a roster lock.

Muma is close to a lock.

 

[captain stone]

His name is Jack Gibbens. Gibbens, not Gibbons.

It's not Ewell Gibbon...?

 

[captain stone]

...Considering we're talking about the 4th and 5th CB's on this roster, we're substantially better off than last year.

No we're not.

 

[captain stone]

I get there's nothing to discuss, but some of you are really picky even going down the bottom barrel of the roster hoping for better depth at the CB position.

Most teams don't don't even have one solid CB on their team. The Pats have a good tandem on the outside.

That's not the issue. Surprised & disappointed you gave that response.

 

[n1997y]

I get there's nothing to discuss, but some of you are really picky even going down the bottom barrel of the roster hoping for better depth at the CB position.

Most teams don't don't even have one solid CB on their team. The Pats have a good tandem on the outside.

I’m greedy. Especially for good DBs.

I’d like to have at least four, or maybe five, CBs that could start for most other teams.