OT: Womens U.S Hockey Wins Gold!!

[JoeSixPat]

That theory flies out the window when you consider Wayne Gretzky, when growing up, was always playing in youth leagues a few years older than he was.

Yes he happened to be born in January, but he wasn’t dominating kids 10 months younger than him. He was dominating kids 3 years older than him.

Do people really think that one person would invalidate a study of thousands?

Yeah, ESPN actually looked at the birthday stats for the entire NHL and affirmed Gladwell's findings.

"After checking out Malcolm's Gladwell's new book, "Outliers," and his explanation of why Canadian hockey players born early in the year have a big advantage, we conducted a little study: We tallied up all the NHL players from this season who were born from 1980 to 1990. Sure enough: Many more were born early in the year than late. Note: We did not screen for Canadian-only players."

Too bad they didn't look up Gretzky's birthday and declare that study inaccurate.

 

[upstater1]

Celebrini, along with Connor Bedard, played youth hockey at the NorthShore Winter Club here in Vancouver. My office is a few minutes away. Celebrini got his advantage like many others through genetics - his Dad Rick played semi-pro soccer for our Whitecaps team in the 80’s. He then became the physiotherapist for the Whitecaps, and now is the Director of Sports Medicine for Golden State.

And in between that what did his Dad do? Olympic physiotherapist in 1994, 2002 and 2012. Actually he was the Chief Canadian medical therapist for their entire Olympic program. This kid's body has been trained since he was a tyke.

 

[upstater1]

Celibrini's older brother on local Boston news yesterday.

Buffalo residents look on and think you Boston people are making much too big a deal about all this.

 

[XLIX]

Do people really think that one person would invalidate a study of thousands?

The quote I responded to was incredibly vague. It said “almost ALL great hockey players were born early in the year.” I was thinking it meant a grouping of, say, a dozen or so historically great players - hence my Gretzky counter example (which would indeed make sense if “greatness” was defined in that manner).

Apparently, in this context, “great hockey players” means “anyone who played in the junior leagues.”

Did I misinterpret the statement? Yes
Was the statement so incredibly vague that just about anyone else would have misinterpreted it too? Also yes.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The quote I responded to was incredibly vague. It said “almost ALL great hockey players were born early in the year.” I was thinking it meant a grouping of, say, a dozen or so historically great players - hence my Gretzky counter example (which would indeed make sense if “greatness” was defined in that manner).

Apparently, in this context, “great hockey players” means “anyone who played in the junior leagues.”

Did I misinterpret the statement? Yes
Was the statement so incredibly vague that just about anyone else would have misinterpreted it too? Also yes.

Yes, I suppose if you didn't read the article if I said "all great hockey players" you would think that would be limited to ONLY 50 people over the past 60 decades of hockey like Gretzky

And yet if you read the article, it was made clear that Gladwell was talking about those who made it to the higher echelon of Canadian hockey (among the best because they start as soon as they can walk and are culled from there)

And if you read the article it was clear that even in the NHL, at least for the year, indeed there is that same correlation among several HUNDRED players

Now is the NHL considered a place where the "best" hockey players play? No.

No more than the NFL would be considered a place where the "best" football players play.

So I do see how you misinterpreted that

 

[pazrul72]

Malcolm Gladwell could've also just looked at all the children of former pros playing at the Olympics.

It's incredible the amount of wealthy children you see getting Olympic rings these days.

Someone will say it's genetics, and sure that plays some part, but the biggest thing is $$ and training and excellent coaching.

Pegula and Springsteen have daughters with Olympic medals.

It's not only the Americans with players like the Tkachuks, the Hughes's, and Nelson, but also the Canadians. Macklin Celebrini had absolutely every advantage you can imagine.

This adds to it I'm sure. It's not just the Olympics just look at the Belichick boys. There is no doubt in my mind they know 100's of times more then I do about defenses and football in general. Is that cuz they are smarter and more passionate about football then I am? Obviously I can't answer that for sure but having one of if not the best defensive mind in football history teaching them stuff from the crib is an advantage no matter how into it I am can't be overcome. Now they still had to put in the time and do the work so I'm not upset about it I'm just saying it makes sense and being older makes similar sense to me. Is it the be all end all? Of course not there are plenty of stories of people with all of the advantages that still flop but to dismiss it as not an understandable advantage is crazy to me.

 

[borg]

Slightly OT:

How One Hockey Rink in Plymouth Created a Gold-Medal Team - Michigan Enjoyer

USA Hockey moved their 17U and 18U teams here in 2015, creating a breeding ground for top talent like the Hughes and Tkachuk brothers

enjoyer.com

 

[Boomer B]

And in between that what did his Dad do? Olympic physiotherapist in 1994, 2002 and 2012. Actually he was the Chief Canadian medical therapist for their entire Olympic program. This kid's body has been trained since he was a tyke.

For sure, no doubt, but he’s also got the athlete genes in him. His Dad Rick’s physio centre is about 10 minutes away from my house, at a complex where my daughter played soccer. It’s closed now but he’s well known in North Burnaby here, which is the same part of Vancouver that Joe Sakic is from.

Years ago when the Avalanche won the cup, I was at a strip bar here in North Burnaby with my buddies. Local bar where a lot of people watch sports. Ends up Joe Sakic’s dad was there also, and bought the whole bar a round when his son won. We sent drinks back to his table but his friends told us he had already had too many.

 

[upstater1]

For sure, no doubt, but he’s also got the athlete genes in him. His Dad Rick’s physio centre is about 10 minutes away from my house, at a complex where my daughter played soccer. It’s closed now but he’s well known in North Burnaby here, which is the same part of Vancouver that Joe Sakic is from.

Years ago when the Avalanche won the cup, I was at a strip bar here in North Burnaby with my buddies. Local bar where a lot of people watch sports. Ends up Joe Sakic’s dad was there also, and bought the whole bar a round when his son won. We sent drinks back to his table but his friends told us he had already had too many.

I knew a bunch of NHLers in the 80s and 90s and they all came from blue collar backgrounds. And this wasn't only the Boston area kids, I became really good friends with 3 who grew up in Alberta and even spent a summer up there with them. In my experience, knowing the backgrounds of 20 or so NHLers and meeting families, they were blue collar. I've been in Messier's childhood home, essentially a smallish ranch house.

The training and the money that has come into the sport is unreal. I have no doubt they are highly skilled, hard workers, etc. This is going on in every sport. When I grew up, the hardscrabble NYC basketball courts were a breeding ground for future NBA players, but now there is hardly anyone in the NBA from there.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

This has to do with US WOMEN'S Team won the Gold HOW?

 

[jimnance]

Buffalo residents look on and think you Boston people are making much too big a deal about all this.

Buffalonians think ?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Hellebuyck played at UMass Lowell and lives in Canada now.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Learned that US Women's Gold winning team has an upcoming White House visit.

 

[The Brandon Five]

No separate thread for the Men winning gold? SMH

 

[TommyD4207]

Hellebuyck played at UMass Lowell and lives in Canada now.

He plays in Winnipeg so...this makes sense.

 

[Clonamery]

No separate thread for the Men winning gold? SMH

When the Men's team wins it's a miracle so they get 90% of the media coverage, also many comments here in the Women's' thread are about the men.

 

[1960Pats]

I’m just not buying it. A kid born in February will be about 4 months older than the average kid on the team. Those 4 months aren’t going to carry a lifelong advantage in the sport which carries its way all the way to the NHL.

Furthermore, January 1st isn’t the cutoff everywhere. In my town if I wanted my (hypothetical) 5 year old to play in my local kids hockey league, the kids born in September, October, November are the oldest ones.

All kids develop at a different time. You can teach a 5 year old and he could get it right away or anytime, even years later.

LLB also has a cutoff date.

 

[1960Pats]

This has to do with US WOMEN'S Team won the Gold HOW?

Both teams won far enough apart that the women's posts are in the beginning.

It's historic no matter what.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Both teams won far enough apart that the women's posts are in the beginning.

It's historic no matter what.

I'm still floored by the 99 shots on goal and 2 goals allowed for a crazy .979 save percentage by Aerin Frankel throughout the Olympics

It would be nice if she also got a Presidential Medal of Freedom as she was even BETTER than Hellebuyck's .956 save % - but just shows the extent to which Canada - the best in the world - didn't even lose on a down game.

No one would have beaten either US Team on those days.

 

[ViperGTS]

I'm still floored by the 99 shots on goal and 2 goals allowed for a crazy .979 save percentage by Aerin Frankel throughout the Olympics

It would be nice if she also got a Presidential Medal of Freedom as she was even BETTER than Hellebuyck's .956 save % - but just shows the extent to which Canada - the best in the world - didn't even lose on a down game.

No one would have beaten either US Team on those days.

I see your point, but the mens team just erased 46 years of misery.