Breer: Vrabel says the Pats will approach the offseason getting younger, cheaper, & better options

[dliverey44]

Which is precisely why we shouldn't be quick to throw away draft capital on trades.

Agree, I would rather they did not make trades for players. I only want them to trade to move around the draft board.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Some of the best free agent signings are the ones where you identify a player who's hitting their prime and/or poised to take on a bigger role for his new team than his last team. Likely is going to be 26 next year and BAL is a running team whose best receiver has been the other TE he plays with so there's some reason to believe his role could scale up.

Up to the teams to decide if that applies to him. Is he a breakout candidate or is the pedestrian production just indicative of what he is and a new team/role won't change that? If you think he's a breakout guy and he's not he'll end up a bust of a signing. If you think he's a breakout guy and he does breakout in a new role/team then he could end up being a home run signing.

A big part of GMing isn't just evaluating the past, but projecting the future. You have to look at what is and what has been for a player but that's only useful to the extent it helps you predict what his future outlook is.

That's a big projection for a guy who's been in the league 4 years and only had 27 rec. and 1 TD. If he was a Patriot people here would be screaming to release him,

 

[captain stone]

You think our starting left side of the OL in 2026 should be Campbell - Brown - Wilson?

That would be hideous.

 

[captain stone]

Agree, I would rather they did not make trades for players. I only want them to trade to move around the draft board.

Or maybe pick swaps for players, such as what Bill did in 2018 for WeaponCP, Danny Shelton & Jason McCourty...

 

[n1997y]

It'll be interesting to see if maybe they sign some younger guys at positions they signed older players at last year and cleared the spot via trade.
…
Spillane (31 this year)... if we trade him (pre-June 1st) his new team gets him for $8.3M this year (fully guaranteed) plus another $1.2M in incentives. We free up $6.32M this year after taking into account a $6M dead money charge (none next year).
…
I think all of those contracts are pretty reasonable for the acquiring team. Maybe on Davis we eat a few million by converting to signing bonuses and retaining the cap hit. For us, cutting any of those players wouldn't be worth it because the guaranteed salary stays on our cap as dead money, but trading them sends it to the new team and frees it up.

What if they wanted to sign a guy like Quay Walker as a younger replacement for Spillane? The money saved by trading him would fit Walker's year 1 cap hit.

So why would a team want to trade for our older vets that we are dumping as too expensive so we can sign younger improvements?

Why would they not just sign those younger players, instead of eating our bloated salaries for us?

Like, why would they not just sign Quay Walker, instead of trading for Spillane?

 

[Hugepatsfan]

So why would a team want to trade for our older vets that we are dumping as too expensive so we can sign younger improvements?

Why would they not just sign those younger players, instead of eating our bloated salaries for us?

Like, why would they not just sign Quay Walker, instead of trading for Spillane?

There's only one Quay Walker so if he signs here then he can't sign there and there might still want to improve at LB.

Also, even though I talked about the cap numbers for Walker fitting into Spillane's "slot", the actual cash outflow would be higher and there would be guarantees in the deal beyond this season. The other team might prefer taking Spillane for less financial commitment than spending on the young player.

I'm not suggesting we dump those guys because they're "too expensive" either. I think all the guys I mentioned are fine prices for what they are (Landry is the only guy from last offseason's splurge I would say looks like bad value right now). I'm just suggesting trading them IF (and I stress IF) we see replacements that make more long term sense.

And of course as always we can sign pretty much anyone we want to and manage the deals so no one has to go. Cap is easily manipulated. If we signed Quay Walker, for example, no need to let Spillane go. But in their overall roster plan and how aggressive they want to be in structuring deals to pay now and cap hit later, it might make sense. It's tough to comment on any one player/potential move without the full picture, so mostly I'm throwing out hypoethticals and IFs.

 

[Rob0729]

Which is precisely why we shouldn't be quick to throw away draft capital on trades.

According to Schefter, there is going to be a lot of trading this offseason because the general feeling is that the talent in the draft and free agency isn't very good this year. If this is true, I don't mind the Pats trading draft capital this year because they are going to be at the bottom of each round.

 

[n1997y]

There's only one Quay Walker so if he signs here then he can't sign there and there might still want to improve at LB.

But what makes you so sure he signs here?

You’re showing the usual FA fallacy of assuming that all we have to do is desire a player and they’re certain to sign with the Pats.

And of course as always we can sign pretty much anyone we want to and manage the deals so no one has to go.

Assuming they don’t sign elsewhere. That’s a major fallacy in your approach.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

But what makes you so sure he signs here?

You’re showing the usual FA fallacy of assuming that all we have to do is desire a player and they’re certain to sign with the Pats.

Assuming they don’t sign elsewhere. That’s a major fallacy in your approach.

Doesn't this apply to any free agent anyone here discusses though? You can comment on anyone's post suggesting any player they suggest and say what he wants go somewhere else or gets more money. Anytime I see someone suggest signing a free agent and the corresponding roster moves around I take it as a given that it's conditional on if that player wants to come here, they agree on money, the medicals check out, etc. because otherwise how could we even have any offseason discussion?

The last snippet there is out of context. That part was in the context of managing the cap and how any player you want to sign you can make work in the cap if you're aggressive enough with borrowing from future years. Any player you want to sign for any amount of money is workable under the cap.

 

[n1997y]

Doesn't this apply to any free agent anyone here discusses though? You can comment on anyone's post suggesting any player they suggest and say what he wants go somewhere else or gets more money. Anytime I see someone suggest signing a free agent and the corresponding roster moves around I take it as a given that it's conditional on if that player wants to come here, they agree on money, the medicals check out, etc. because otherwise how could we even have any offseason discussion?

No. There’s a lot of discussion about whether a particular FA would be a good fit, or if we should go after them. There’s a subset that’s saying “we should cut Spillane because we can sign Quay Walker with the savings” that totally ignore the chance that we end up cutting Spillanecand not signing Quay Walker. And that’s because if those posts don’t ignore the chance of not signing Walker it’s much more obvious they’re not really a good idea.

The last snippet there is out of context. That part was in the context of managing the cap and how any player you want to sign you can make work in the cap if you're aggressive enough with borrowing from future years. Any player you want to sign for any amount of money is workable under the cap.

Yes, we can make the cap work. But being able to make the cap work doesn’t make it a good idea.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

No. There’s a lot of discussion about whether a particular FA would be a good fit, or if we should go after them. There’s a subset that’s saying “we should cut Spillane because we can sign Quay Walker with the savings” that totally ignore the chance that we end up cutting Spillanecand not signing Quay Walker. And that’s because if those posts don’t ignore the chance of not signing Walker it’s much more obvious they’re not really a good idea.

Yes, we can make the cap work. But being able to make the cap work doesn’t make it a good idea.

So I should clarify if I wasn't explicit enough... when I say to sign a player with cap space freed up by cutting a player, the order of operations would be to negotiate and agree with that player first. We're not an over the cap team that needs to release guys to get below the cap and we aren't overflowing with excess talent at a ton of positions anyway to where we can cut guys just for the sake of it. The only reason why really anyone on our roster should be cut is if we're bringing someone in to replace them and they think the savings make sense after that.

Like just with this Walker/Spillane example... no reason they couldn't add Walker and keep Spillane because you need multiple LBs BUT maybe if they added Walker they might want to put Spillane's money to another position. But even in that case, they'd still want to lock in those players before actually moving on from Spillane.

The POSSIBLE exceptions would be Diggs/Barmore because they have guarantee triggers before FA starts (if I'm not mistaken) so if (I stress IF) the team didn't like the value and wanted to move on you might have to do that with the unknown of who you can sign.

 

[Wozzy]

They should add Nick Cross... safety from the Colts.

He fits Vrabel's scheme, is only 25 year's old, even faster and more athletic than Woodson.

The two of them together would be a load to handle with our CB's. It's a big position of need for an upgrade.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yo Peeps!
Sup with Miguel? I miss his Patscap info. Gone from here & gone from X. Hope he just retired from cap tracking.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Yo Peeps!
Sup with Miguel? I miss his Patscap info. Gone from here & gone from X. Hope he just retired from cap tracking.

I thought he moved to Bluesky or whatever the twitter alternative was after Elon bought it

 

[Rob0729]

Yo Peeps!
Sup with Miguel? I miss his Patscap info. Gone from here & gone from X. Hope he just retired from cap tracking.

I think the work of maintaining the cap got too daunting for him with work and his life. Plus, Over the Cap and Sportrac do the same thing he did although not in as much detail.

Ian would know better if there was anything else to it. But I don't think it had to do with anything negative in his life.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I wonder how much the following players would cost:

NYG WR Wandale Robinson
GB WR Romeo Doubs
TB TE Cade Otton
TEN TE Chigoziem Okonkwo

None of them are like top, tier 1 FAs but all pretty young and productive. If they signed those guys and moved on from Diggs/Henry it's probably cap neutral for 2026 so existing cap space can go to other needs. Can probably trade Pop Douglas too since he earned play time escalators that have him kind of pricey for what he is:

WR group would be Robinson/Doubs/Boutte/Hollins/Williams/Chism

TE group would be: Otton/Okonkwo and hopefully a draft pick

RB group would be: Stevenson/Henderson/Gibson (back from injury)

I feel like there's TONS of formational and route tree flexibility there. Otton gives you a competent blocker at TE and that would be a priority for the draft pick and Okonkwo is a move TE matchup type. You have size at WR with Doubs (6'2") and Hollins (6'4"), big play speed with Williams and Robinson, possession/slot types with Chism/Robinson, guys who have been productive on deep balls (Boutte, Doubs, Hollins). The RBs all have some pass catching ability, especially if Henderson takes a year 2 leap.

Honestly, signing 4 relatively notable pass catchers seems unlikely, but it's not cost exorbitant if they pursue those guys with money they can free up by moving on from Diggs/Henry. And it drastically reduces the age of the skill position group and, IMO, adds a ton of versatility.

 

[scott99]

I thought he moved to Bluesky or whatever the twitter alternative was after Elon bought it

I see him on Blue Sky pretty regularly.

 

[Real fan 02]

Who are our old players? I'm confused by this.

We have 1 old starter. Moses.

We're not an old team.

I guess Landry can also be considered old.

None of the other guys are old.

Maybe we could say.. Diggs, Henry, Moses, Hooper... I'm guessing here...

 

[Rob0729]

For all you Isiah Likely fans:

 

[DaBruinz]

Sure.. As long as you ignore every pick not mentioned:
Rounds 3-7 of 2025
Rounds 2-7 of 2024
Rounds 307 of 2023..