PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots Fall 35-31 to the Bills

[Patsfan1645]

A Pats footie pajama?? Are you saying they are comfy...weird. You are right that Maye was bad in the 2nd half and has shown that he does not yet have "clutchness". Maye was never going to be another Brady.

He had a worse QBR against the Raiders, Atlanta and Tampa. I get the outrage but I also realize that Maye is still relatively inexperienced, 2 years a starter in college and 13 last year. Nix and Williams both have 5 4th qtr comebacks this year, but I would still rather have Maye despite him showing that he is not "clutch" yet. I feel pretty good about him becoming clutch at some point.

100 percent this. If you read through this thread you keep seeing stuff about what Brady did and comparing the kid to Brady. Face it.....Tom Brady or Tom Brady 2.0 aint walking through that door ever again. Just like there will never be another Bird or MJ or Barry Sanders, at least not in our lifetime. Those guys dont come around every 10 years or so and most of you miserable old $^%!s wont be around long enough if he does show up, nor will I for that matter. Stop putting this kid in the shadow of Brady. I appreciate what he has done so far and am excited for what Drake Maye becomes.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Are you sure you didn't get Williams and Barmore mixed up?

As I'm constantly told on patsfans.com once Williams went down the run defense has slipped.. last I checked Barmore is still in the lineup.. Barmore HAS BEEN THE DISAPPOINTMENT..

Given the amount of money Williams has been paid, he's also been pretty underwhelming in the pass rush department.

On the other hand, Barmore has been flat out awful looking like he's playing patty cake with the OL. And there's no PFF stat that's going to gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

If these guys aren't getting a push in the pocket, there's no reason to be paying two guys over $20M per season for that. I can see Barmore getting traded this off-season, but even more likely in 2027.

 

[jal]

100 percent this. If you read through this thread you keep seeing stuff about what Brady did and comparing the kid to Brady. Face it.....Tom Brady or Tom Brady 2.0 aint walking through that door ever again. Just like there will never be another Bird or MJ or Barry Sanders, at least not in our lifetime. Those guys dont come around every 10 years or so and most of you miserable old $^%!s wont be around long enough if he does show up, nor will I for that matter. Stop putting this kid in the shadow of Brady. I appreciate what he has done so far and am excited for what Drake Maye becomes.

Tom Brady was, overall, the most clutch player ever. Mahomes & Montana up there as well. Not gonna put that on Drake Maye as the standard to meet or he's a failure.

The reality is that this season, really he's had two big clutch opportunities (I'm not gonna count Raiders game - week 1 shenanigans). He's 1/2. Does he give me early Brady vibes in the clutch? Nope. But that doesn't mean he's gonna shrink in every big spot either. Brady wasn't Brady from birth - he built his toughness via overcoming a long road of adversity before he ever started a game. Maye will need to accrue more experience with adversity and I hope he will build that toughness as well. Who knows if that happens this year or it will take a few years, but I'm certainly not ready to write him off in big moments.

 

[PatsFan2]

100 percent this. If you read through this thread you keep seeing stuff about what Brady did and comparing the kid to Brady. Face it.....Tom Brady or Tom Brady 2.0 aint walking through that door ever again. Just like there will never be another Bird or MJ or Barry Sanders, at least not in our lifetime. Those guys dont come around every 10 years or so and most of you miserable old $^%!s wont be around long enough if he does show up, nor will I for that matter. Stop putting this kid in the shadow of Brady. I appreciate what he has done so far and am excited for what Drake Maye becomes.

Well said.

 

[SVN]

curran is suggesting vrabel is not happy with josh's playcalling?

 

[SVN]

I don’t think the Nix/early Brady comparisons are completely unjust. I don’t think Nix will ever ascend to near prime Brady level, but early Brady was very similar to current Nix, despite what some of our fans want to believe.
That said, Nix is not beating Allen in the playoffs, just can’t see it.
Again, despite what some of our members think (Old running QB, past his window), Allen is the best QB on the planet.

But denver defense in Denver can beat allen in the playoffs.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

But denver defense in Denver can beat allen in the playoffs.

Not impossible, but I would still bet on Allen

 

[p8ryts]

Gonzalez is our best defensive player unquestionably. He has been fine. The fact that we don’t play 100% man doesn’t indicate anything about his play, it just means we aren’t playing the scheme you want us to. He has been excellent. He is giving up a 46.8% completion rate for only 296 yards all season in 415 coverage snaps. 2.6 completions allowed per game for 27 yards.

I actually think Williams has needs a disappointment as a pass rusher. He’s been invisible a lot

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not seeing many splash plays out of Gonzo. I'm higher on Williams, think he helps the rest of the line be better.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I didn’t see humor in responding to a post that didn’t me type you with “why are you directing this at me”. Must some new kind of humor I gave t learned about yet like 6 7 or something.

 

[Real fan 02]

Given the amount of money Williams has been paid, he's also been pretty underwhelming in the pass rush department.

On the other hand, Barmore has been flat out awful looking like he's playing patty cake with the OL. And there's no PFF stat that's going to gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

If these guys aren't getting a push in the pocket, there's no reason to be paying two guys over $20M per season for that. I can see Barmore getting traded this off-season, but even more likely in 2027.

Agreed here. And you hit on it perfectly. Paying 2 guys that have minimal impact rushing I don't even see Barmore getting off single blocks where as in the past he was shedding double teams..

Remember Barmore got extended under mayo and Vrabel identified Barmore as a BB drafted player that could play in this system.

Is why I mentioned if he's played hurt or not I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but it's been a big enough sample to make a analysis on him.

He's actually hurting the defense because of his ineffectiveness.

 

[TheRainMaker]

curran is suggesting vrabel is not happy with josh's playcalling?

I'm not a huge fan of McDaniels, but who is the alternative? That's been a problem around the league for years and why you really have to be bad at what you do in order to get fired.

I'd be quite shocked if he was let go after this season.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm not a huge fan of McDaniels, but who is the alternative? That's been a problem around the league for years and why you really have to be bad at what you do in order to get fired.

I'd be quite shocked if he was let go after this season.

Same here.. I believe this is all crap talk.. I also believe Vrabel wanted Josh and knows Josh is proven in development of QBs..

 

[Toofy]

I don't I what gonzo had done this season That warrants him 30 million a year . I would just pick his 5th year option and ask him to prove his worth . I don't think we should sign any extension for him yet.

Barmore is a sunk cost . His dead cap is 12 million and cap hit is 17 million . Not sure what his trade value will be . Nobody will even trade for him . He is probably cut in 2027.

Spillane, williams , hollins , Tonga , diggs , Henry , hooper are worth their contracts .

Davis , barmore , landry and rham are overpaid . Since chiefs are not there this season , if we get lucky we can probably get the golden prize this year . Next year I feel we might have the commanders lowdown . So don't even trade 2027 draft picks as most likely they could be in late teens.

I might seem a bit negative , but looking at what's happened and how we have gotten here, looks extremely unlikely to ascend with so few noteworthy performances from our highly paid and highly drafted players.

 

[Vindicate]

Given the amount of money Williams has been paid, he's also been pretty underwhelming in the pass rush department.

On the other hand, Barmore has been flat out awful looking like he's playing patty cake with the OL. And there's no PFF stat that's going to gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

If these guys aren't getting a push in the pocket, there's no reason to be paying two guys over $20M per season for that. I can see Barmore getting traded this off-season, but even more likely in 2027.

When Milton was on the field, it looked like we'd be pushing back and pick apart a pocket, only for a defender to be easily re-routed to the outside the behind the passer. I dunno if what I'm saying makes sense, but it seemed like we'd get 75% of the way there to make a sack, but never actually close.

It is frustrating. Clearly Milton is important to this defense, but he and Barmore need to figure out how to get that line to win more often, otherwise it doesn't matter who we have at CB, a receiver will break off at some point.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Agreed here. And you hit on it perfectly. Paying 2 guys that have minimal impact rushing I don't even see Barmore getting off single blocks where as in the past he was shedding double teams..

Remember Barmore got extended under mayo and Vrabel identified Barmore as a BB drafted player that could play in this system.

Is why I mentioned if he's played hurt or not I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but it's been a big enough sample to make a analysis on him.

He's actually hurting the defense because of his ineffectiveness.

As we spoke about before in this thread, how much of his condition of the blood clot has affected him? I could pull up posts that I was not a fan at all when they extended Barmore as he only had one good season as a pro at that time. Not that I saw a health issue in the future, but a player needs to have back to back seasons to justify a huge extension like that. Too many teams are freaking out these days and backing up the Brinks truck if a player has one good season.

Barmore was able to post 8.5 sacks in 2023 with no edge rushing to help him out and Gonzo injured. Going into the season, he had Williams next to him with a veteran pass rusher in Landry and Chaisson as upgrades along the edge along with Spillane in the middle and the tandem of Gonzo/Davis at CB. He's been pretty invisible this season and players that are having good seasons aren't benched for a half.

 

[SVN]

When Milton was on the field, it looked like we'd be pushing back and pick apart a pocket, only for a defender to be easily re-routed to the outside the behind the passer. I dunno if what I'm saying makes sense, but it seemed like we'd get 75% of the way there to make a sack, but never actually close.

It is frustrating. Clearly Milton is important to this defense, but he and Barmore need to figure out how to get that line to win more often, otherwise it doesn't matter who we have at CB, a receiver will break off at some point.

Even with williams we have been susceptible to zone runs. As the season wears on, teams figure you out. The whole "no rusher under 100 yards until week 9 or 10" was a mirage.

 

[Real fan 02]

As we spoke about before in this thread, how much of his condition of the blood clot has affected him? I could pull up posts that I was not a fan at all when they extended Barmore as he only had one good season as a pro at that time. Not that I saw a health issue in the future, but a player needs to have back to back seasons to justify a huge extension like that. Too many teams are freaking out these days and backing up the Brinks truck if a player has one good season.

Barmore was able to post 8.5 sacks in 2023 with no edge rushing to help him out and Gonzo injured. Going into the season, he had Williams next to him with a veteran pass rusher in Landry and Chaisson as upgrades along the edge along with Spillane in the middle and the tandem of Gonzo/Davis at CB. He's been pretty invisible this season and players that are having good seasons aren't benched for a half.

Yes. And to your point Vrabel's benched him likely for performed based reasons
I truly believe he loves Barmore the person and the player.. but as you mentioned outside of 2023 he's been hurt and showed flashes but never reached full potential.. he was drafted with injury concern at Alabama.

Davis is definitely someone we overpaid he's been good but not great and I'm sure Vrabel knew he was going to have to over pay someone..

Chassiaon has been good IMO and has earned a contract here.. he will be even more effective once we beef up the pass rush.. another mention of a guy who's attitude prevented him from being successful is Keon white.. a fully bought in and committed white would have made this defensive front pass rush much better.

 

[dliverey44]

I'm not a huge fan of McDaniels, but who is the alternative? That's been a problem around the league for years and why you really have to be bad at what you do in order to get fired.

I'd be quite shocked if he was let go after this season.

I would really question leadership if they let McD go.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don't I what gonzo had done this season That warrants him 30 million a year . I would just pick his 5th year option and ask him to prove his worth . I don't think we should sign any extension for him yet.

Agree. I think he's a good CB, but I'd wait one more season to see how he does.

Barmore is a sunk cost . His dead cap is 12 million and cap hit is 17 million . Not sure what his trade value will be . Nobody will even trade for him . He is probably cut in 2027.

It's around $5M dead cap hit post June 1st cut or trade and $13M in cap savings. The good thing is that the Pats have a **** ton of cap space and can hang onto him for at one more year then make the decision in 2027 as you mentioned.

Spillane, williams , hollins , Tonga , diggs , Henry , hooper are worth their contracts .

I think Diggs is cut after this season. He's due $26.5M for a soon to be 33 year old who's knee isn't going to get younger and limited to the slot. I'm glad the Pats took a chance on him and appreciate that he chose to play for NE, but he's just not the same player he once was. If the Pats have an opportunity to trade for a young WR, Diggs is as good as gone.

Davis , barmore , landry and rham are overpaid . Since chiefs are not there this season , if we get lucky we can probably get the golden prize this year . Next year I feel we might have the commanders lowdown . So don't even trade 2027 draft picks as most likely they could be in late teens.

I thought for sure Davis was going to get a prove it deal given he was kicked to the curb by his prior two teams and his injury history. They are stuck with him for the 2026 season and after that I the Pats will have their out in 2027. With that said, I think he's been okay and that's coming from someone that wasn't a fan of his prior to him signing with the Pats. I expected to get torched, but I haven't seen it.

When Milton was on the field, it looked like we'd be pushing back and pick apart a pocket, only for a defender to be easily re-routed to the outside the behind the passer. I dunno if what I'm saying makes sense, but it seemed like we'd get 75% of the way there to make a sack, but never actually close.

It's what I like to call "fake pressure". Watching on TV, you'll hear announcers say "so and so" applied the pressure, but for all we know he was 2-5 yards away from the QB who was unfazed by the defender's presence. Those stats get credited to the player that is the closest to the QB. Also, "pressure" is subjective. What a score keeper thinks is a pressure isn't to the QB who either easily gets away or has already decided to throw the football to his target. I've never been a fan of that stat and teams that truly provide pressure are going to force bad plays like sacks, INT's, incomplete passes, etc.

 

[Ring 6]

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not seeing many splash plays out of Gonzo. I'm higher on Williams, think he helps the rest of the line be better.

I’m not sure what splash plays are but covering his receiver is his job. You don’t think our secondary would be in trouble with David at cb1 jones at 2 and woods at3?