A question on my mind virtually every day [Would BB draft Maye]

[signbabybrady]

@Ian

Look at everyone teaming up on upstater and since he's talking to people who banned me I don't even get to see his posts and get his back.

The people who block me would never see it and I'm sure upstater would appreciate knowing others agree with him.

I totally understand if people don't want to see my content and block me but if they don't want someone to see theirs the simple solution there would be for them not to post it instead of letting them blocking people from reading it. It's very anti American logic.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So you are saying that Kraft is like any other owner who after his new coach has two disastrous seasons would decide to move on? The Patriots were worse in 2000 than they were under Carroll in 1999. And if they didn't show any sign of improvement in 2001, most owners including Kraft would decided they made a mistake and moved on.

This is exactly why I've been saying BB would've been gone if they had a losing record and missed the playoffs in 2001.

And Kraft fired Carroll because he lost the team. There was no coming back from that. Once players "went up the back stairs" to Bobby Grier's office to complain about Carroll, Carroll was done. You cannot have a head coach who the players don't respect. Many players hated Belichick, but only a small handful in 20 years of the dynasty ever not respected him. And because they were a small handful, they were easily jettisoned from the team without losing the whole team.

This narrative is overused by fans and media. Had injuries to Martin, McGinest and Glenn not happened, they are the #2 seed and most likely hosting the AFCCG against Denver in 1997. Does anyone not remember that Bledsoe got hurt in 1998 late in the season? How about Robert Edwards career ending injury? Even with their crap team in 1999, they are 10-6 and off to Seattle had Adam Vinatieri done his job and made two kicks (KC and Buffalo). Carroll had to deal with injuries to star players, horrible drafts by Grier, poor personnel decisions and an erratic kicker missing game winning kicks multiple times. But the biggest blunder of all was underestimating Martin's ability to leave as a restricted FA. Carroll warned Grier and probably Kraft that Martin was angry and was going to find a way out. They call Martin's bluff and found out the hard way. Carroll has stated after that incident he demanded full control at USC and later in Seattle.

The blame on Carroll is getting boring.

And Kraft addressed meddling with Parcells and admitted he made a mistake and claimed he didn't do it with Belichick. If was meddling with Belichick as much as people think, he would have never let Belichick make Patricia the OC. Kraft didn't hide the fact he thought it was a horrible idea and that he gave Belichick the leeway to do it.

Bob tried meddling with BB in 2001 when he wanted Drew to get his job back and told him he didn't agree with the decision. Bob clearly blamed the Rams loss on BB. After that, he stood back and waited to see whether BB would crash and burn with his decision going with Brady.

 

[upstater1]

I have never seen any coach do what Belichick did to Mac Jones. Ray Berry never in four subsequent games started a QB and benched him at halftime and then start him again the next game. That would screw with any QB.

It was also a fireable offense. If Aaron Glenn constantly benched Justin Fields at halftime and starting him the next week, we would all be laughing our arses off at the Jets.

Mac should have been permanently benched after the first or second time he was benched. Not the fourth or fifth.

I've seen this happen a lot with QBs. Many teams had poor QB play. Mac was pulled because he was doing god knows what out therre. They put Zappe in. Zappe was even worse. You act like this was a plan.

What it was: horrible QBs.

I mean, never in my life could I imagine a QB being as bad as Mac was in the Euro Indy Colts game. Check that, he was as bad as Peterman.

 

[upstater1]

@Ian

Look at everyone teaming up on upstater and since he's talking to people who banned me I don't even get to see his posts and get his back.

The people who block me would never see it and I'm sure upstater would appreciate knowing others agree with him.

I totally understand if people don't want to see my content and block me but if they don't want someone to see theirs the simple solution there would be for them not to post it instead of letting them blocking people from reading it. It's very anti American logic.

I don't know why you're blocked, I honestly never see anything objectionable... unless you really hate Belichick, then your posts are a downer.

 

[upstater1]

It is amazing isn't it?

A beat reporter comes back with Belichick stopped talking to Mac Jones at some point during the season.

Then BO'B says Belichick attended the QB meetings regularly.

We're also told that Belichick tried to retain Patricia.

But the Sugar Bowl O'Brien references is on New Year's Day, and the NFL regular season wasn't even over yet.

The season ended the following week.

So, it appears that O'Brien was offered the OC job WHILE Patricia still had one more game to coach (January 6th).

It is certainly possible that Belichick and Kraft had the talk about a new OC much much earlier in the season. It makes sense that Belichick, being loyal, would stick with Patricia. But evidently, this was not protracted or drawn out during the offseason.

All these decisions were made -- whoever made them -- DURING the 2022 season.

You get a very different narrative here on Patsfans from people who take the word of reporters like Curran and Daniels as gospel.

Adrian Wojnarski (sorry for mangling his name, I forgot it) makes a claim about Belichick being hellbent on trading Brady... and then you get a GM like Lynch telling you a completely different story about how the Garoppolo trade happened.

These reporters are getting this misinformation from somewhere. Don't know where. But after watching The Dynasty, nothing would surprise me about the way the team spins things.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats were playoff teams two of the three years that Carroll coached. I don't remember Kraft saying anything about him negatively, but if he did it was probably at the end when he lost the team.

And I don't see anything wrong with the Kraft making Mayo the heir apparent to Belichick. It is their team. Well, other than he was the wrong guy, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. It isn't that rare either. Belichick was 72 at the time. The Krafts were expecting the transition to happen several years down the line and not the next year. Belichick has no right to select his successor.
The Jets made Belichick the heir apparent when Parcells was still head coach. He didn't have a problem then taking the bonus they gave him stick around and be ready to take over when Parcells gave up coaching.

Joe Judge had no experience coaching QBs. He spent one year as the special teams AND WR coach. He split duties. Not sure how much he spent with the receivers.

Never said anything about Belichick having the right to pick a successor. I was talking about the word coming through the team midseason that Mayo was taking over, and Mayo conducting meetings outside Belichick's authority. It stuns me that you don't see this as massive meddling and a massive problem.

Joe Judge is Lane Kiffin's QB coach.

Joe Judge has mentored Jaxson Dart and now a kid, T Chambliss, who is up for Player of the Year as the team has achieved its highest ranking since 2015.

 

[NFL Mystique]

I think Bill has a huge issue with guys that are more prone to turnovers. Which Maye kind of was in college. Reports were that Bill preferred Brady over Bledsoe because Brady was not a gunslinger always looking for the huge play. He took what was there.

Bill would have hated coaching Brett Favre for instance.

 

[upstater1]

I think Bill has a huge issue with guys that are more prone to turnovers. Which Maye kind of was in college. Reports were that Bill preferred Brady over Bledsoe because Brady was not a gunslinger always looking for the huge play. He took what was there.

Bill would have hated coaching Brett Favre for instance.

I don't know, he was 63 TDs and 16 INTs, which isn't bad for college, especially since they changed the offense and he lost his WRs. If Maye had come out after the sophomore year, he would've been the #1 pick.

38 TDs and 7 INTs, but he was throwing to Josh Downs.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think Bill has a huge issue with guys that are more prone to turnovers. Which Maye kind of was in college. Reports were that Bill preferred Brady over Bledsoe because Brady was not a gunslinger always looking for the huge play. He took what was there.

Bill would have hated coaching Brett Favre for instance.

I don't hate the Bledsoe comp but obviously with Drew there was zero mobility. Their similarities are mostly with how pretty a deep ball they each have.

Bledsoe had an absolute cannon but as far as improv and whatever else you might attribute to a gun slinger I see little more Favre or Mahomes to his game than Drew.

There was one play in particular last week where he was rolling out had to kind of full stop and go through his whole motion basically in phone booth as pressure was on both sides and connected a 12/13 yarder to Hollins if I remember correct and it immediately made me think Mahomes.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

And I don't see anything wrong with the Kraft making Mayo the heir apparent to Belichick. It is their team. Well, other than he was the wrong guy, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. It isn't that rare either. Belichick was 72 at the time. The Krafts were expecting the transition to happen several years down the line and not the next year. Belichick has no right to select his successor.

Of course, they could still have hired whoever Belichick wanted to succeed him, but, per the Rooney rule, if Kraft hadn't put that clause in Mayo's contract, they would've had to do a Rooney rule-compliant search.

In any case, the original plan, as Kraft saw it, was Belichick would stay long enough to break Shula's record while mentoring Mayo, and then he'd step aside and Mayo would take over. It's worth noting that Kraft has said that he and Bill had had talks (which he wouldn't discuss) about how long Bill planned to coach.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

He started out fine, but man ... he fell off a cliff. That was one of the wildest things I've ever seen. And the fact that Belichick never let Stidham see more time that year still blows my mind. Stidham went from a guy they loved to an outcast. I get there were other circumstances involved there, but I still can't get over how things played out that year.

FWIW, though, it wouldn't have mattered much, I think, in terms of saving Belichick's career; even if Belichick thought playing Stidham would be tanking, they still would only have been able to get Fields instead of Mac.

 

[Rob0729]

He came back too soon from injury and wasn't ready.

Zappe came back to earth so after another week of rear Bill needed Mac to start again.

Despite everything that was going on between the 2 there was nothing personal that got in the way of this decision there was an ankle injury combined with Zappe for a very brief moment playing as well as Mac.

I am talking about the following year where Belichick continually started Mac in a game and benched him by halftime over and over again. I have never seen that happen and was a fireable offense.

And as for the previous year, he refused to state that Mac was going to continue to be the starter when he came back.

And Belichick refused to talk to Mac their final year here, but you are going to say what Belichick did wasn't personal?

 

[Rob0729]

@Ian

Look at everyone teaming up on upstater and since he's talking to people who banned me I don't even get to see his posts and get his back.

The people who block me would never see it and I'm sure upstater would appreciate knowing others agree with him.

I totally understand if people don't want to see my content and block me but if they don't want someone to see theirs the simple solution there would be for them not to post it instead of letting them blocking people from reading it. It's very anti American logic.

No one are teaming up on upstarter. Personally, I haven't read half the posts that he has been having with other people and only focusing on his responses directly to me.

 

[Rob0729]

This is exactly why I've been saying BB would've been gone if they had a losing record and missed the playoffs in 2001.

This narrative is overused by fans and media. Had injuries to Martin, McGinest and Glenn not happened, they are the #2 seed and most likely hosting the AFCCG against Denver in 1997. Does anyone not remember that Bledsoe got hurt in 1998 late in the season? How about Robert Edwards career ending injury? Even with their crap team in 1999, they are 10-6 and off to Seattle had Adam Vinatieri done his job and made two kicks (KC and Buffalo). Carroll had to deal with injuries to star players, horrible drafts by Grier, poor personnel decisions and an erratic kicker missing game winning kicks multiple times. But the biggest blunder of all was underestimating Martin's ability to leave as a restricted FA. Carroll warned Grier and probably Kraft that Martin was angry and was going to find a way out. They call Martin's bluff and found out the hard way. Carroll has stated after that incident he demanded full control at USC and later in Seattle.

The blame on Carroll is getting boring.


Bob tried meddling with BB in 2001 when he wanted Drew to get his job back and told him he didn't agree with the decision. Bob clearly blamed the Rams loss on BB. After that, he stood back and waited to see whether BB would crash and burn with his decision going with Brady.

Belichick wouldn't have been fired in 2001 if they missed the playoffs. If they went 8-8 or 9-7, he would have kept his job especially with Bledsoe going down. He would have been fired if they went 5-11 again. Kraft wouldn't have fired Belichick if the team showed signs of moving in the right direction.

And your explanation about Carroll is irrelevant. The team was going in the wrong direct in 1999 and the team had no respect for him. Grier sucked, but he was let go too. I am not blaming Carroll for anything. But the players didn't respect him and went around him. Whether it was his fault or not, you cannot have head coach that the players disrespect enough that they go behind his back to management when he does something they don't like.

And last time I checked, Kraft didn't overrule Belichick in 2001 and Brady remained the starter when Bledsoe was ready to come back towards the end of the season and even when Brady went out in the AFCCG and Bledsoe led the team to a win. How is that Kraft meddling with Belichick. He let Belichick start the QB he wanted. And the following offseason, he let Belichick trade Bledsoe in division without trying to stop it.

 

[sb1]

Always interesting to hear the Bill apologists insist that the Krafts forced Bill to draft Mac Jones... but gave him complete freedom to hire Matt Patricia as his OC. Make it make sense....

 

[Rob0729]

Never said anything about Belichick having the right to pick a successor. I was talking about the word coming through the team midseason that Mayo was taking over, and Mayo conducting meetings outside Belichick's authority. It stuns me that you don't see this as massive meddling and a massive problem.

Joe Judge is Lane Kiffin's QB coach.

Joe Judge has mentored Jaxson Dart and now a kid, T Chambliss, who is up for Player of the Year as the team has achieved its highest ranking since 2015.

There is no evidence that Kraft had given Mayo permission to "have meetings outside of Belichick's authority" something I don't ever hearing about. I have heard that Mayo attitude was that he was above everyone else, but not that he was doing meetings. And there was also word that Belichick refused to even speak to Mayo.

And I don't Joe Judge. You admit Patricia was a disaster. It doesn't matter if Judge is a good QB coach or not when you have a completely dysfunctional offense.

 

[signbabybrady]

I am talking about the following year where Belichick continually started Mac in a game and benched him by halftime over and over again. I have never seen that happen and was a fireable offense.

And as for the previous year, he refused to state that Mac was going to continue to be the starter when he came back.

And Belichick refused to talk to Mac their final year here, but you are going to say what Belichick did wasn't personal?

That's because you choose to believe fake news by terrible sports reporters. Here's what our OC that season says.

 

[signbabybrady]

No one are teaming up on upstarter. Personally, I haven't read half the posts that he has been having with other people and only focusing on his responses directly to me.

There were several members all who block me getting after upstater for defending certain points that I started but I don't see the posts because the blockers made the post quoting upstater or stater posted quoting them.

So in essence I'm getting censored by the people blocking me from seeing content of someone taking up my defense and I can't return the favor by getting his back too.

I tried using some of those ignore tools this morning too and that just seriously screwed everything up so I'm just going to go back to not ignoring anyone and I'll read the site logged out and deal with the stupid adds to avoid getting censored.

 

[upstater1]

There is no evidence that Kraft had given Mayo permission to "have meetings outside of Belichick's authority" something I don't ever hearing about. I have heard that Mayo attitude was that he was above everyone else, but not that he was doing meetings. And there was also word that Belichick refused to even speak to Mayo.

And I don't Joe Judge. You admit Patricia was a disaster. It doesn't matter if Judge is a good QB coach or not when you have a completely dysfunctional offense.

Bill O'Brien debunked a lot of the stuff Mark Daniels put out there about Belichick not speaking to both Mac Jones and Mayo, and he sounded quite natural when he explained that wasn't true, O'Brien also pushed back on the rumors that Kraft forced Belichick to hire O'Brien.

 

[Rob0729]

Bill O'Brien debunked a lot of the stuff Mark Daniels put out there about Belichick not speaking to both Mac Jones and Mayo, and he sounded quite natural when he explained that wasn't true, O'Brien also pushed back on the rumors that Kraft forced Belichick to hire O'Brien.

And O’Brien is friends with Belichick. And his counter was the Belichick was in the QB room at times, but focused more on the o-line. So I don’t know who to believe on this. I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle and Belichick was not very commutative with Jones but didn’t stop talking to him all together.