A question on my mind virtually every day [Would BB draft Maye]

[XLIX]

Why does this surprise you? Given his father's background and his earliest days on college campuses? The guy used to go down to Wesleyan and watch sports all the time. I didn't find this surprising at all. Did he want to coach in the NFL as a priority? Sure. But that doesn't mean he didn't always want to coach college football. This is like someone forbidden from going to Tahiti, their preferred destination, then going to Bali instead and declaring, "I always wanted to go to Bali!"

Do you spend your days just thinking up new ways to twist things when it comes to Belichick?

You can argue the semantics of someone who says they “always wanted” but let’s be clear… coaching college was not what Belichick had in mind when he left New England. He was expecting another NFL job.

Even today, he made sure his UNC exit fee is an extremely low $1 million.

 

[upstater1]

I don't. I had posted an article a while ago that BB didn't approve of Mayo being the successor and stopped talking to him as the 2023 season went on.

Kraft was waiting to fire him in 2001 when Bill decided to start Brady over Bledsoe. Kraft is that guy who tells you behind the scenes you are wrong, then takes full credit publicly when you make the right decision. Kraft has said in the documentary he's the reason for the Patriots success.

Mayo is an ungrateful turd. We found out the reason why Bill didn't approve of him.

It was actually reported. The coaches stopped talking to one another midseason. There was dissension. Remember during the season when we received backchannel information from Belichick about what was going on internally? Whoever was talking to Curran, that person quoted Belichick directly when Belichick supposedly said that "Jonathan's interventions have been brutal." This was in regard to Mayo icing out Belichick. What was Belichick going to do? Fire his DC when he was a lame duck?

Are you saying that Kraft kept talking about firing Belichick in 2017 and 2019 but that he never would have? Because Kraft also said that multiple times Jonathan was pushing to fire Belichick and that Bob had to rein him in. He made Jonathan out to be a guy who was tired of having Belichick as coach half a decade before they fired him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It was actually reported. The coaches stopped talking to one another midseason. There was dissension. Remember during the season when we received backchannel information from Belichick about what was going on internally? Whoever was talking to Curran, that person quoted Belichick directly when Belichick supposedly said that "Jonathan's interventions have been brutal." This was in regard to Mayo icing out Belichick. What was Belichick going to do? Fire his DC when he was a lame duck?

I still think to this day Mayo was the mole leaking info to Curran. It was very clear when Curran was a Mayo Stan during the entire off-season when he was hired. Many in the media during the season wanted Mayo fired, but had no idea he was the successor. In regards to BB firing Mayo, he knew he couldn't do that given the successor clause. That would've had to have been coming from Bob.

Are you saying that Kraft kept talking about firing Belichick in 2017 and 2019 but that he never would have? Because Kraft also said that multiple times Jonathan was pushing to fire Belichick and that Bob had to rein him in. He made Jonathan out to be a guy who was tired of having Belichick as coach half a decade before they fired him.

No, what I'm saying is that Bob is a turd and wanted to fire Bill as early as 2001. He only kept Bill because the team caught fire. Had Brady flamed out and the Pats missed the playoffs, Bob was going to pull the trigger. Bob brought Bill in to win with the current group of players, including Bledsoe who they just paid the richest contract in the NFL at the time. Pioli admitted this during the documentary.

 

[sb1]

Because Bill was NEVER a short-term coach, he always invited for the long haul, even when he was at the end of his time here. During his entire career he never took short cuts.

Not sure I agree with that. He closed out the 2020 season with Cam instead of Jarrett Stidham and that wasn't a future-thinking move.

 

[sb1]

Why does this surprise you? Given his father's background and his earliest days on college campuses? The guy used to go down to Wesleyan and watch sports all the time. I didn't find this surprising at all. Did he want to coach in the NFL as a priority? Sure. But that doesn't mean he didn't always want to coach college football. This is like someone forbidden from going to Tahiti, their preferred destination, then going to Bali instead and declaring, "I always wanted to go to Bali!"

Do you spend your days just thinking up new ways to twist things when it comes to Belichick?

Then why is Bill's exit fee from his contract only $1M? Seems awfully low for a guy who "always wanted to coach college football". Perhaps he thought his current job would be interesting but let's not pretend he wouldn't want to run back to the NFL in a second if the opportunity was there.

 

[sb1]

You can argue the semantics of someone who says they “always wanted” but let’s be clear… coaching college was not what Belichick had in mind when he left New England. He was expecting another NFL job.

Even today, he made sure his UNC exit fee is an extremely low $1 million.

Beat me to it

 

[VJCPatriot]

No offers like that were reported to have been made. I guess teams may have changed their thinking and offered something just because it was Bill and they know he likes to trade but that seems unlikely.

Incorrect. It has been now reported that the Giants and Vikings offered multiple 1st round picks to move up for Maye.

Article: New Report Reveals Details About The 2 Blockbuster Trade Offers That New England Patriots Turned Down Before Drafting Drake Maye

Given the offers, it is quite likely BB would have traded down and taken a guy like McCarthy or Penix Jr. He was extremely critical about Maye's shortcomings during the draft and absolutely gushed about McCarthy's qualities.

We all know what BB would have done. He just loves trading down. It was a pretty deep QB draft class but still knowing what we do today it would have been a disaster trade.

We would be watching some other team have success or at least signs of brilliance from Maye and wonder why we can't get guys like that. The same way we suffered watching N'Keal Harry struggle while star wide receivers taken AFTER him flourished in the NFL.

 

[signbabybrady]

Incorrect. It has been now reported that the Giants and Vikings offered multiple 1st round picks to move up for Maye.

Article: New Report Reveals Details About The 2 Blockbuster Trade Offers That New England Patriots Turned Down Before Drafting Drake Maye

Given the offers, it is quite likely BB would have traded down and taken a guy like McCarthy or Penix Jr. He was extremely critical about Maye's shortcomings during the draft and absolutely gushed about McCarthy's qualities.

We all know what BB would have done. He just loves trading down. It was a pretty deep QB draft class but still knowing what we do today it would have been a disaster trade.

We would be watching some other team have success or at least signs of brilliance from Maye and wonder why we can't get guys like that. The same way we suffered watching N'Keal Harry struggle while star wide receivers taken AFTER him flourished in the NFL.

It's still just using unfounded information to support a biased claim.

Reports two years late mean nothing. Someone felt the need to make themselves look good and since Maye looks good why not say that.

At a minimum the details are probably exaggerated now.

If the rumored deal is even true it was turned down so what your saying is that Bill would accept a bad deal that even Mayo turned down.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I love how Bill pretended he always wanted to coach college football. Bigtime cope imo for not getting an NFL job.

Bill Belichick says he's 'always wanted' to coach college football. Now he will at North Carolina

New North Carolina football coach Bill Belichick, who led the New England Patriots to six Super Bowl titles during a 24-year run there that ended last year, said he had long been interested in coaching in the college ranks. But it had never worked out until now, as he takes over the Tar Heels...

www.pbs.org

Maybe a long time ago Bill might have wanted to coach college ball. But he went straight to the pros. I don't think he anticipated how important recruiting is at that level, pleasing the parents, boosters, etc. He might have wanted to COACH college ball, but did he really want to do all the other things needed from a college head coach?

Let's be honest BB can also be a bit of a curmudgeon. I don't think it totally suits his personality at this point. I find it difficult to believe Bill connects well with today's strong headed youths. And these days if a highly rated recruit doesn't get the promised snaps they often transfer instead of trying to wait for their chance.

 

[XLIX]

Given the offers, it is quite likely BB would have traded down and taken a guy like McCarthy or Penix Jr. He was extremely critical about Maye's shortcomings during the draft and absolutely gushed about McCarthy's qualities.

You’re joking, right? He would’ve traded down and drafted someone like Zak Zinter. He would never waste a high draft pick on a position as worthless as quarterback!!

 

[Rob0729]

He didn't select Lamar Jackson because he had an owner who gave him grief for having a plan to move on from a 40 year-old QB and he had a QB and owner clamoring for offensive weapons, so much so that they brough in the kitchen-cupboard and expended a ton of resources to get them (i.e. Demaryiuous Thomas, Killer Antonio Brown, Mohammed Sanu and of course, our favorite, N'Keal Harry). Given all the acrimony, I don't think taking a 1st round QB was in the cards.

And by the way, coming out of college many people would've thought that Lamar Jackson was a huge project in need of a lot of development, a project. I fail to see how people like Nix or Penix could be considered lesser while taking Lamar would've been something else.

It makes no sense to me anyway that someone would say, "I'll take Nix and prove I can win with him instead of the better QB Drake Maye." Especially given all the scouting beforehand about both QBs.

I've only ever heard Belichick speak about the importance of having a great QB and the need for one as it relates to winning.

Everything in his prior experience would've told him that a winning QB was necessary.

LOSING with Bernie Kosar, Drew Bledsoe and Mac Jones.
WINNING with Vinny Testaverde and Tom Brady.

How can we say he wanted to win with a mediocre QB when everything in his experience showed the wins come with superior QB-play, almost immediately when the team moved on from mediocre QBs?

Stop blaming Kraft for all of Belichick’s moves or lack there of that didn’t go right. Kraft did a contract the following offseason that allowed Brady to walk after that season rather than give him a longer term deal that Brady wanted. If the Pats didn't win the Super Bowl that year, he might have let Brady walk or franchised him rather than give him a contract. Kraft knew Brady was near the end of the line. He wouldn’t have balked at drafting a QB that high. Brady was going to be 41 years old that season, Kraft knew that they had to plan for the future.

Reports were that McDaniels loved Jackson and Belichick didn’t.

And Testeverde backs my point. Even though he was drafted as a first round pick, he was a bust in Tampa and was a journeyman QB for most of his career. Testeverde was an average QB at best who had a couple of really good years, but even more bad ones. And out of his twenty year career, he had a winning record as a starter in 4 of those years. And he went to the playoffs as a starter in three of those four with a 2-3 record in the playoffs. Testeverde was never a winner and Bledsoe was more successful than him.

And you are spinning what I said. Belichick wouldn't have said "I would prove I could win with Nix than the better Maye. He would have said that "we can improve the team quicker and better with three first rounders and we can develop Nix into a winning QB".

And although Maye is a far better QB than Nix, Nix has had more success so far than Maye. Both the Patriots and Broncos have the same record right now (both are 8-2) and the Broncos went to the playoffs last year. Nix is proving that a great coach and a team built around him can turn the team into a contender.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It's still just using unfounded information to support a biased claim.

Reports two years late mean nothing. Someone felt the need to make themselves look good and since Maye looks good why not say that.

At a minimum the details are probably exaggerated now.

If the rumored deal is even true it was turned down so what your saying is that Bill would accept a bad deal that even Mayo turned down.

What's unfounded about it? Do you know their sources? Just because a report comes out two years later doesn't mean the facts are incorrect.

It might be that there wasn't enough interest in an unproven QB for a journalist to go digging before or the information didn't come out until later at a time people were more comfortable to talk about it.

Why do you think it would appear to be a bad deal to BB if he liked some of other QBs in the draft as much as or more than Maye? BB was famous for always wanting to trade down if he felt he could get relatively equivalent value. It's not at all unlikely he felt taking a less athletic QB plus a defensive player was better value. Or did you already forget the 2023 draft where the team direly needed offensive help and he went ALL DEFENSE with his first 3 picks?

Lets be honest, the reason BB was kicked to the curb was not because of his coaching. He was still a defensive genius at the end. It's because BB the GM was sabotaging BB the head coach with his bizarre drafting decisions. Until Gonzalez in 2023 BB had not drafted a pro bowler/all-pro since Chandler Jones in 2012 or arguably Jamie Collins in 2013.

That's a lot of Whiffs! A decade full of them. I know there's a small group of people who will defend all of BB's bad decisions till their last breath, but the facts are clear for everybody to see.

 

[upstater1]

Not sure I agree with that. He closed out the 2020 season with Cam instead of Jarrett Stidham and that wasn't a future-thinking move.

I call that long-term thinking, not short.

You bite the bullet on a season (Belichick has been explicit that this is what he was doing) by paying a guy $1m. If he wanted to set himself up better, he would've gone with a much better QB. He's always been enamored with Baker Mayfield. He could've done that.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't. I had posted an article a while ago that BB didn't approve of Mayo being the successor and stopped talking to him as the 2023 season went on.

Kraft was waiting to fire him in 2001 when Bill decided to start Brady over Bledsoe. Kraft is that guy who tells you behind the scenes you are wrong, then takes full credit publicly when you make the right decision. Kraft has said in the documentary he's the reason for the Patriots success.

Mayo is an ungrateful turd. We found out the reason why Bill didn't approve of him.

Bill knew he needed a QB, so I don't think he would've done the dreaded trade down and taken a random player.

You have no idea if Kraft was waiting to fire Belichick in 2001. That is pure speculation without anything to back it. Kraft and Belichick had a good relationship back then and I doubt he would have been quick to pull the plug on Belichick after spending a first round pick to get Belichick.

And I don't get why you Belichick defenders want to make Belichick an innocent victim in everything that went bad while he was here. Belichick was the greatest head coach of all time, but he was also always an a-hole and became really petty towards the end. I never cared that he was an a-hole because he was a great football coach, but he created a lot the problems for himself over the years with his attitude.

 

[upstater1]

Then why is Bill's exit fee from his contract only $1M? Seems awfully low for a guy who "always wanted to coach college football". Perhaps he thought his current job would be interesting but let's not pretend he wouldn't want to run back to the NFL in a second if the opportunity was there.

Uh... did you know coaches like Kirby Smart have no exit fee at all? They can just leave. The NCAA isn't the NFL. I know they exist in some cases, but the biggest coaches dont have exit fees or they have a negligible amount. If I'm a hot property and you want me, you better believe that exit fee will be low.

 

[upstater1]

You have no idea if Kraft was waiting to fire Belichick in 2001. That is pure speculation without anything to back it. Kraft and Belichick had a good relationship back then and I doubt he would have been quick to pull the plug on Belichick after spending a first round pick to get Belichick.

And I don't get why you Belichick defenders want to make Belichick an innocent victim in everything that went bad while he was here. Belichick was the greatest head coach of all time, but he was also always an a-hole and became really petty towards the end. I never cared that he was an a-hole because he was a great football coach, but he created a lot the problems for himself over the years with his attitude.

???
Uh, you're pulling out the Belichick-defender card against RainMaker? Really?

Did you not watch the Dynasty?

What did Belichick do that you would deem petty? (Please dont tell me it's banning Guerrero).

 

[Rob0729]

It was actually reported. The coaches stopped talking to one another midseason. There was dissension. Remember during the season when we received backchannel information from Belichick about what was going on internally? Whoever was talking to Curran, that person quoted Belichick directly when Belichick supposedly said that "Jonathan's interventions have been brutal." This was in regard to Mayo icing out Belichick. What was Belichick going to do? Fire his DC when he was a lame duck?

Are you saying that Kraft kept talking about firing Belichick in 2017 and 2019 but that he never would have? Because Kraft also said that multiple times Jonathan was pushing to fire Belichick and that Bob had to rein him in. He made Jonathan out to be a guy who was tired of having Belichick as coach half a decade before they fired him.

Belichick also stopped talking to Mac after he went to Saban for advice on how to handle the horrible situation he was in. Mac really did nothing wrong by seeking advice. Who knows what he said, but seeking advice is nothing wrong. I am sure Brady sought advise outside the organization many times when he was having issues with Belichick or the team. I am sure most players do. Don't forget he basically buried Hoyer because Hoyer immediately started to question Patricia and his offense.

I am sorry I don't see Belichick as this victim with everyone trying to undermine him. I see him more of an authoritarian who could not handle the owner's son (who happens to be the president of the team) telling him what to do or his players and coaches not being 100% loyal to him. I am sure it wasn't 100% wrong on either side, but seeing Belichick at UNC shows me that he is anything but a victim of forces trying to undermine him. He creates his own drama.

 

[Ian]

You have no idea if Kraft was waiting to fire Belichick in 2001. That is pure speculation without anything to back it. Kraft and Belichick had a good relationship back then and I doubt he would have been quick to pull the plug on Belichick after spending a first round pick to get Belichick.

I remember very clearly that there were whispers about it at the time, especially given Drew's contract and his history. Had Brady crashed and burned, and after that 5-11 season, I don't know how Kraft would have reacted, especially given how the local media had already questioned Belichick's future that offseason and the talk after that ugly loss to begin the 2001 season.

Drew getting hurt quieted that and bought him time, but had Drew been cleared and Belichick had kept him on the bench, if Brady had finished out the year with the team ending up 7-9 or 8-8, it's very possible Kraft might have pulled the trigger because it's not like Belichick had endeared himself to the fans, and the majority of fans were Bledsoe fans. That really only changed when Brady started winning.

If Brady had gone .500, I think enough of them would have sided with Bledsoe and been frustrated that Belichick didn't play him. Kraft likely would have heard that, and probably agreed with it, and it might have cost Belichick his job.

We saw it this past season. He listens to the outside noise, and there were plenty of people who didn't want him to hire Bill to begin with, so it wouldn't have shocked me if he second-guessed it and tried to correct it by moving on from him sooner rather than later.

 

[XLIX]

What's unfounded about it? Do you know their sources? Just because a report comes out two years later doesn't mean the facts are incorrect.

Any story SBB doesn’t like (and he doesn’t like any story which makes his hero look bad) he just labels unfounded fake news.

SBB literally - and I swear I am not making this up - said a story about Belichick not letting Patriots scouts at UNC practices was fake news. Then Belichick himself admitted the story was true and SBB still to this very day calls it fake news.

 

[TommyD4207]

LOL, there will only ever be one @fnordcircle - he's reached legend status.

We can retire his number already.