NFL Trade Deadline Discourse

[Ring 6]

My bad 53 yard pass, he did make the tackle. He was not in man coverage, he was playing the deep half zone and got burnt, further proving that he's not a fit for what they need him to do. Maybe Rattler and Ward couldn't expose him further, but Mahomes and Allen would, and I bet they have a pretty good idea of his ability watching him try to defend deep passes from Maye everyday in practice. I guess we can agree to disagree that he played well.

Not making anything up, simply pointing out that you don't know everything that goes into decisions behind the scenes. They gave him a chance to prove his worth and they still felt he was expendable. Not saying Pettus is anything special but he flashed a couple times last year and I wouldn't be surprised if he is equal to Dugger at this point in their careers.

Edit:
Here's an example of Dugger's limited coverage ability against the Titans. In the first image look at how far away Woodson is from the receiver compared to Dugger. Woodson is already beginning to break on the pass before Ward even throws it while Dugger continues back peddling. By the time the ball gets to the receiver (second image) Woodson who came from the other side of the field is the same distance to the receiver as Dugger. The ball hits the receiver in the hands outside of the hashmark of the 19 yard line, about 5 yards away from where Dugger was standing when the ball was being thrown (while Woodson was already breaking on the pass from the other side of the field). Woodson made it from the inside of the numbers to the middle of the hashmarks while Dugger ended up maybe a yard closer to the play than where he was when Woodson started his break and the ball was being thrown. Luckily the receiver drops the pass.

Shows he is slow to diagnose, react, and break on the pass. Also thought he seems scared of getting burnt over the top so he's often playing too far off or too conservative. Also a testament to Woodson.

It was man coverage on an all out blitz.

Yes You are making things up when you say maybe the other was equal but they just played him for stupid reasons.

Analyzing football with screen shots? Ugh

 

[TomPatriot]

If they don't consider him a #3 safety, then maybe it isn't. The fact that they traded Dugger for basically nothing and are willing to eat most of his salary tells you how little they value his contribution. They consider his roster spot move valuable than what he can do on the field.

Again we are talking about a back up safety who isn't playing well. This isn't trading away Dugger from 2023.

They also get out of the last two years of the contract.

You’re spot on. Dugger is a box safety on a team that doesn't really use one. He’s never been good in coverage, whether it’s zone or man or a combo. It’s gotten worse because of his injury.

Downside is that you’re giving the Steelers a box safety, which they need.

 

[Ring 6]

If they don't consider him a #3 safety, then maybe it isn't. The fact that they traded Dugger for basically nothing and are willing to eat most of his salary tells you how little they value his contribution. They consider his roster spot move valuable than what he can do on the field.

Again we are talking about a back up safety who isn't playing well. This isn't trading away Dugger from 2023.

When a safety was injured he played 100% of the snaps. By definition that is your 3rd safety

 

[Ring 6]

In theory, he could been cut. In reality, there is no way you cut a player you gave a top of the market contract for his position and $30 million in guarantees after one season. It never happens. There is a reason why Sportstrac put when a player can be cut or traded when they breakdown the contracts of each player.

If Dugger was on the last year of his deal or still on a more manageable deal, he would been cut or traded before the start of the season. The only reason he was on the roster was his contract. People were talking about how much longer he would be with the team before the start of the season and that he would likely be cut or traded after this season.

By that argument there is no way you trade him 8 games in.
They took a bigger hit with this trade than if they cut him.
Well, people were talking, what a great argument.

It was sunk cost it had no impact on keeping him or not.

 

[Ring 6]

He played so well they dumped him as soon as they could, and ate his salary to do so.

He played so well they replaced him by signing a UDFA rookie off the practice squad of a 2-6 team.

Thing is, playing 100% of those snaps gave the coaches a lot to look at. His play must’ve impressed the coaching staff beyond our ability to comprehend.

Just because they made the decision isn’t proof it was the right decision. That’s actually the point here. It looks like a mistake. Saying it’s not a mistake because it’s what they did is just closing your eyes and hoping.

 

[Ring 6]

He is not 'healthy', he never fully recovered from his ankle injury.
In no universe did he play 'well' at any point this year, except maybe the 4th quarter of a preseason game.

He played well in the 2 games he started.

 

[Ross12]

As of today, we don't have a #3 S or a #3 RB. I suspect that the pickup from MIA is a player to check out for the future. I doubt that he is better than Pettus at this point.

Vrabel did well. We gained cap space. We moved on from 2 players that have no future with the patriots. And we gained two roster spots.

THIS WEEK
I expect to add Jennings, solving the #3 RB issue, although theoretically he could be upgraded next week.
I expect to elevate Grant who with Pettus would be our emergency #3 safeties. Hopefully, someone will be traded for next week.

My guess is that they will sign Jennings to the 53 for this week, then cut him on Monday. Once he clears waivers he will sign back to the PS and be eligible for three more practice squad elevations again. They’ll still seek an upgrade but if they don’t find one then at least that third spot is covered for the next four games.

 

[Ross12]

I saw this on Twitter a bit ago and I am not sure how to feel about it. I like Addison but am not sure he would move the needle much because we are already pretty efficient and explosive on offense.

Feels unlikely, but Addison is a VERY good player who would unlock another level of the offense. A trio of Boutte-Diggs-Addison is perfect, with all three guys being able to play all three spots. Diggs and Addison can beat man very well, and Boutte is strong and can wall off guys with his body, good with high/jump balls.

He’s only making around $4M this year and next year, and you can pick up his fifth year option for 2027 as well to the tune of around $17M. So you have him under contract for another 2.5 years for a total of around $23M. Extremely cheap for what he is, and he’s still very very young.

 

[Rob0729]

When a safety was injured he played 100% of the snaps. By definition that is your 3rd safety

I get that. But that doesn’t mean the coaching staff considers you #3 safety quality. Just that you are the best option currently on the roster.

If they thought he was worthy of being the team’s #3 safety, he would still be on the team. They clearly valued the roster spot over the player.

 

[Rob0729]

By that argument there is no way you trade him 8 games in.
They took a bigger hit with this trade than if they cut him.
Well, people were talking, what a great argument.

It was sunk cost it had no impact on keeping him or not.

No. Eight games in, the Pats have gone from a first year in a rebuild to having a legitimate shot of winning the division and possibly being a Super Bowl contender. They also gave it a shot in trying to make Dugger contribute to the team and it failed. It is a completely different situation now than three months ago.

And you are making a great argument that it was a good move to trade him since it is clear his roster spot was more valuable to the team than his on the field contributions.

 

[Rob0729]

I would still rather see the Pats make a trade for a DE or RB than WR.

 

[203Pat]

THATS the plan? We weakened our S position so we could add a rookie os player from a team that stinks?
Love me some Vrabel but I think he Fed up here.

If Andy doesn't like it you know it was the smart move.

 

[condon84]

If you look at Vrabel's move, he purged a lot of 'leaders' and strong personalities from the previous regime. White and Duggar fit that criteria along with the previous moves like getting rid of Jon Jones, D. Wise, Peppers, Bourne. A lot of addition by subtraction mentality imo.

The team is 6-2, the players love playing for Vrabel and they're showing that they are drinking the cool-aid. So I'm not gonna question these last two trades. Vrabel has the pulse of the team.

They must see depth players in these positions that can play as well as Duggar and White has.

Personally, I would give up some quality assets to get an impact player at the RB and DE.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Just because they made the decision isn’t proof it was the right decision. That’s actually the point here. It looks like a mistake. Saying it’s not a mistake because it’s what they did is just closing your eyes and hoping.

Key word is looks. It is somewhat of a head scratcher but we only have the information provided to us. If we are discussing potential issue with moving Dugger I am 100% certain that Vrabel and Streicher have discussed it at length. I dont think Vrabel is making moves that could leave the team in a bad position, he hasnt done that yet. I think things will be come clearly as we approach the deadline. Maybe they simply roll with this new kid they brought on because they think he will be able to do what they need done if he gets on the field. They scouted him so they have a good understanding of his skill set. In Vrabel we trust!

 

[203Pat]

If you look at Vrabel's move, he purged a lot of 'leaders' and strong personalities from the previous regime. White and Duggar fit that criteria along with the previous moves like getting rid of Jon Jones, D. Wise, Peppers, Bourne. A lot of addition by subtraction mentality imo.

The team is 6-2, the players love playing for Vrabel and they're showing that they are drinking the cool-aid. So I'm not gonna question these last two trades. Vrabel has the pulse of the team.

They must see depth players in these positions that can play as well as Duggar and White has.

Personally, if I had my wish, if impact players are available for RB and DE, I would give up some quality assets to get these types of players.

My only real issue with bringing back Josh and Vrabel was that I wanted to move on from Bill and the whole dynasty era and was concerned that this would be some "get the band back together" scenario. Luckily Vrabel has done pretty much the exact opposite. He jettisoned the numerous bad draft picks by Bill and got us away from the remaining dynasty guys (sorry David Andrews) and now is clearing a bad contract on a bad player.

At least now we can stop with some of the galaxy brain "trade Dugger or White and a 3rd for (insert elite player here)" posts. For the millionth time, players are paid on potential and not past performance. Dugger was a solid player when in the right scheme and healthy and he was neither of those here. White was also not a scheme fit and really never did anything notable despite half this board's love for him.

What we need to do now is make some trades for depth/rotational guys. We loaded up on late round picks so add another pass rusher, a TE, and ideally, a DB.

 

[203Pat]

Key word is looks. It is somewhat of a head scratcher but we only have the information provided to us. If we are discussing potential issue with moving Dugger I am 100% certain that Vrabel and Streicher have discussed it at length. I dont think Vrabel is making moves that could leave the team in a bad position, he hasnt done that yet. I think things will be come clearly as we approach the deadline. Maybe they simply roll with this new kid they brought on because they think he will be able to do what they need done if he gets on the field. They scouted him so they have a good understanding of his skill set. In Vrabel we trust!

If you have paid attention to his contract, and the last season and a half of play, this is not a head scratcher.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Still deferring?

Yes I am.
Has the trade deadline passed?
We can talk after that.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

FS? I doubt that.

Maybe covering TEs and RBs (players that are not too fast). Gilmore on T Kelce would erase Kelce.

Still think it’s worth a sniff.

 

[Patsfan1645]

If you have paid attention to his contract, and the last season and a half of play, this is not a head scratcher.

The head scratcher part is not related to the money. Its a concern for not having an obvious plan B mid-season should injury happen and we need the services of Dugger (I am believing though they have a plan, we just dont know it yet). But thanks for reminding me of this...... I would consider this a felony fraud matter/ conspiracy. Mayo/Wolfe conspired with Dugger to commit fraud against the Pats.

 

[203Pat]

The head scratcher part is not related to the money. Its a concern for not having an obvious plan B mid-season should injury happen and we need the services of Dugger (I am believing though they have a plan, we just dont know it yet). But thanks for reminding me of this...... I would consider this a felony fraud matter/ conspiracy. Mayo/Wolfe conspired with Dugger to commit fraud against the Pats.

The risk vs reward was apparently not worth it. If Dugger was forced into action it was a big risk for the team because A, he can't play, and B, if he suffered a major injury they would be on the hook paying him whatever he was owed next year. When Hawkins was out Dugger played a lot more so the staff got to see what it looked like for two weeks with Dugger out there and it looks like they decided they could get similar production with way less risk.