Drake Maye has arrived . . .

[Rob0729]

See this is exactly my point. You had a preconceived misconception and you won’t let go of it. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

Look at your comments

You admit that he had crap around him. Yet he still played well while being held back by it.

Scouting reports. Please
Playing 2 years in college instead of 4 isn’t proof you are underdeveloped, just potential. He has disproven that.
Playing in a crap offense again masks his abilities.
He was the #3 pick because he was the #3 pick. You didn’t make the pick, so your opinion of why has no value.
Really you are using the bears as your argument?

There absolutely was not bad, bad play on his film

You keep digging deeper holes.

Yes, I admit he did have a crap offense around him did hinder his development last year. Doesn't change my point. And him being played into the fact that he could play great at times last year and still be awful at times last year.

I am not digging my hole deeper. You are alone on an island on this. Everyone in the world agrees with me. You once again are the contrarian. Go listen to the first five minutes of Zolak and Bertrand from today's show and Scott Zolak said the exact same thing as I have said. And he is a former NFL QB.

 

[Rob0729]

Interesting and tellingly you refused to answer my question. Why?

What question? I didn't see one question in your post.

 

[KCSVEN]

I was being sarcastic.

He had crap around him and he was raw and needed to be developed. These aren't mutually exclusive. Both can be true.

Go back and look at all scouting reports. They the same thing. He was raw coming in. He limited starts in college career. And he played on an offense with a crap offensive line which made him play with a less disciplined style. He was the #3 pick because off the chart physical skills and his high ceiling and not as much as his college production. That is why the Bears ridiculed his reel film and removed him from the first round on their draft board all together. There was a lot of bad, bad play on his films to remove him.

Is he better this year than last? 100% YES! The NFL speed is something you need to get used to. No different than Campbell saying things that worked in college don't work in the NFL. But that is the same for any Rookie QB. Learning to slide earlier, dump the pass out of bounds instead of trying to gain an extra yard running etc. All related to being in the NFL vs College. It took Brady like 10 years for him to feel like he finally had the "answers to the test" so he's going to learn new things every year for a while.

These same guys that thought Bryce Young was worth a first round pick, whoops, I mean first overall thought Maye was raw. He wasn't

100's of hours dissecting college QB's it was not hard to see Maye was the best. The best in a long time. He wasn't raw.

He was arguably the best college QB in the country as a Freshman and a Sophomore.

He did not play less disciplined either, he was in the 70th percentile for avoiding negative plays. Ironically the only drafted QB better at that was Rattler.

If he was on Washington last year he would have put up better numbers than Daniels, no doubt in my mind. Can't say Daniels was raw and nobody would have said that about Maye there.

Honestly, he's doing all the same things he did in college, just for the first time he does not have bad players around him. He doesn't have a great roster around him, but it is still the best coaching and roster he's ever had.

By all advanced metrics he was one of the most accurate college QB's and was absurdly accurate on long balls.
As a rookie he was, by advanced metrics, one of the most accurate QB's in the NFL.
As a 2nd year QB, one of the most accurate QB's.

His main mechanics, unchanged from college. Slight improvement, at times in footwork.
But why do people want to change the guy that's been among the most accurate QB's for 4 years in a row in his level? When you have a major flaw, like Justin Fields, or Allen had, mechanics are important. With Maye, pretty irrelevant.

Poles is a moron who was arrogant and though Williams was the best and rigged things so he could get everyone to agree so he could say it was unanimous. Caleb WIlliams last year tape in college was not good, he was good the year before but was pretty bad the last year while Maye was phenomenal.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, I admit he did have a crap offense around him did hinder his development last year. Doesn't change my point. And him being played into the fact that he could play great at times last year and still be awful at times last year.

I am not digging my hole deeper. You are alone on an island on this. Everyone in the world agrees with me. You once again are the contrarian. Go listen to the first five minutes of Zolak and Bertrand from today's show and Scott Zolak said the exact same thing as I have said. And he is a former NFL QB.

It didn’t hinder his DEVELOPMENT it hinder his ability to utilize his ability and make plays. He was never awful last year, he was in an awful
Offense with awful players, awful coaching and awful play calling and overcame it as well as anyone could.

I don’t care what Zolak says. If you haven’t figured out the media gets an opinion and never lets go of it, never admits they are wrong. Just like you are doing.

There is no doubt the common belief was that Maye needed a lot of development. It was wrong, he has proven that in the field.

Faced with
1) the perception was right and he has made the fastest greatest development in the history of the NFL
and 2) he has proven the perception was wrong

The only reason to choose 1 is stubbornness

 

[Rob0729]

It didn’t hinder his DEVELOPMENT it hinder his ability to utilize his ability and make plays. He was never awful last year, he was in an awful
Offense with awful players, awful coaching and awful play calling and overcame it as well as anyone could.

I don’t care what Zolak says. If you haven’t figured out the media gets an opinion and never lets go of it, never admits they are wrong. Just like you are doing.

There is no doubt the common belief was that Maye needed a lot of development. It was wrong, he has proven that in the field.

Faced with
1) the perception was right and he has made the fastest greatest development in the history of the NFL
and 2) he has proven the perception was wrong

The only reason to choose 1 is stubbornness

You are an expert on stubbornness. Your decades here show that.

 

[Ring 6]

What question? I didn't see one question in your post.

Let’s just do this. What is more likely. If he had last years coaching staff, weapons and OL he would look as good as he is now or if last year he had this years weapons, OL and coaching he would look a lot like this year and the things you are blaming in him wouldn’t have been there.


Which is more likely

 

[Ring 6]

You are an expert on stubbornness. Your decades here show that.

Rule #1 of losing arguments.
When you are losing the argument attack the arguer.

 

[TommyD4207]

You are an expert on stubbornness. Your decades here show that.

 

[n1997y]

He also doesn’t need to stay here and play second fiddle to Vrabel. Once again I think Josh will stay for a while because it is a comfortable gig for him but in the event that an opportunity did arise I’m pretty confident he would opt for the money. I would too.

Saying he’s second fiddle to Vrabel is the wrong way to look at it.

Instead of thinking of it as playing second fiddle to Vrabel maybe think of it as playing first seat violin for Arthur Fiedler. Or perhaps playing sax with Miles Davis or Dave Brubeck.

They’re not master-peon. They’re practitioners of different trades, working together as partners to build a winning team. You don’t get a winning team when you have a second fiddle trying to usurp his better’s position; that’s how you get Coach Mayo.

 

[Zoomnbyu]

Is he better this year than last? 100% YES! The NFL speed is something you need to get used to. No different than Campbell saying things that worked in college don't work in the NFL. But that is the same for any Rookie QB. Learning to slide earlier, dump the pass out of bounds instead of trying to gain an extra yard running etc. All related to being in the NFL vs College. It took Brady like 10 years for him to feel like he finally had the "answers to the test" so he's going to learn new things every year for a while.

These same guys that thought Bryce Young was worth a first round pick, whoops, I mean first overall thought Maye was raw. He wasn't

100's of hours dissecting college QB's it was not hard to see Maye was the best. The best in a long time. He wasn't raw.

He was arguably the best college QB in the country as a Freshman and a Sophomore.

He did not play less disciplined either, he was in the 70th percentile for avoiding negative plays. Ironically the only drafted QB better at that was Rattler.

If he was on Washington last year he would have put up better numbers than Daniels, no doubt in my mind. Can't say Daniels was raw and nobody would have said that about Maye there.

Honestly, he's doing all the same things he did in college, just for the first time he does not have bad players around him. He doesn't have a great roster around him, but it is still the best coaching and roster he's ever had.

By all advanced metrics he was one of the most accurate college QB's and was absurdly accurate on long balls.
As a rookie he was, by advanced metrics, one of the most accurate QB's in the NFL.
As a 2nd year QB, one of the most accurate QB's.

His main mechanics, unchanged from college. Slight improvement, at times in footwork.
But why do people want to change the guy that's been among the most accurate QB's for 4 years in a row in his level? When you have a major flaw, like Justin Fields, or Allen had, mechanics are important. With Maye, pretty irrelevant.

Poles is a moron who was arrogant and though Williams was the best and rigged things so he could get everyone to agree so he could say it was unanimous. Caleb WIlliams last year tape in college was not good, he was good the year before but was pretty bad the last year while Maye was phenomenal.

Thankfully an adult came down to the kids table. TY KCSVEN.

 

[Rob0729]

Is he better this year than last? 100% YES! The NFL speed is something you need to get used to. No different than Campbell saying things that worked in college don't work in the NFL. But that is the same for any Rookie QB. Learning to slide earlier, dump the pass out of bounds instead of trying to gain an extra yard running etc. All related to being in the NFL vs College. It took Brady like 10 years for him to feel like he finally had the "answers to the test" so he's going to learn new things every year for a while.

These same guys that thought Bryce Young was worth a first round pick, whoops, I mean first overall thought Maye was raw. He wasn't

100's of hours dissecting college QB's it was not hard to see Maye was the best. The best in a long time. He wasn't raw.

He was arguably the best college QB in the country as a Freshman and a Sophomore.

He did not play less disciplined either, he was in the 70th percentile for avoiding negative plays. Ironically the only drafted QB better at that was Rattler.

If he was on Washington last year he would have put up better numbers than Daniels, no doubt in my mind. Can't say Daniels was raw and nobody would have said that about Maye there.

Honestly, he's doing all the same things he did in college, just for the first time he does not have bad players around him. He doesn't have a great roster around him, but it is still the best coaching and roster he's ever had.

By all advanced metrics he was one of the most accurate college QB's and was absurdly accurate on long balls.
As a rookie he was, by advanced metrics, one of the most accurate QB's in the NFL.
As a 2nd year QB, one of the most accurate QB's.

His main mechanics, unchanged from college. Slight improvement, at times in footwork.
But why do people want to change the guy that's been among the most accurate QB's for 4 years in a row in his level? When you have a major flaw, like Justin Fields, or Allen had, mechanics are important. With Maye, pretty irrelevant.

Poles is a moron who was arrogant and though Williams was the best and rigged things so he could get everyone to agree so he could say it was unanimous. Caleb WIlliams last year tape in college was not good, he was good the year before but was pretty bad the last year while Maye was phenomenal.

My use of the word "undisciplined" may not have been exactly what I meant. I just couldn't think of the correct word.

But what you are saying isn't that much different than what I am saying as it seems. I never said he completely changed his playing style. He is fixing the issues by improving his footwork etc. He didn't just change his style or mechanics completely. I never suggested that.

Again, I said he wasn't nearly as raw as Allen. Hence why he cleaned up a lot of his issues virtually overnight.

And what Maye improved more anything was his feel for the pocket and his awareness and his ability to make elite level throws and direct the receivers and things like that. He didn't need to improve his accuracy. You cannot deny that he isn't making throws that he wasn't capable of last year even if he had Diggs. And Collinsworth pointed out in the Bills game how he would get twitchy in the pocket and put his head down and run because he regressed to that a bit early in that game probably because of nerves.

 

[Rob0729]

Let’s just do this. What is more likely. If he had last years coaching staff, weapons and OL he would look as good as he is now or if last year he had this years weapons, OL and coaching he would look a lot like this year and the things you are blaming in him wouldn’t have been there.


Which is more likely

What is most likely is it a combination of things like I said. He is a second year QB. Jeez. If Maye had this team last year with the coaching staff and players instead of last year's team, he would be better as a rookie. But he wouldn't wouldn't be close to what he is right now. But you know what? If he did have this year's Patriots last year, he might be significantly better today than he is right now. He lost much of last year in his development. He is basically a year behind in his development.

 

[n1997y]

You are an expert on stubbornness. Your decades here show that.

BREAKING NEWS: Rob starts land war in Asia. Says playing with Andy is no longer enough.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I think the kid is progressing great. But let's hold off on 'arrived' just yet. He's still young enough that something can go sideways suddenly and HARD. Arriving will look like.... teams getting a longer look at him with an actual coaching staff, functional OL working with him. Right now, it's still hard to say what exactly his strengths and weaknesses are because of how poor the coaching and OL situations were in year one.

Plus, thanks to modern NFL's lack of real offseason physical play, games until about now have been like extended training camp and preseasons.

What I think it IS safe to say is that we didn't do the kid dirty like Belichick did Mac dirty. We got him real coaches that know offense. We got him better talent. We kept the receivers he was developing chemistry with. We didn't break the kid by getting him ferking DC as his OC, decimating his OL, and letting his favorite receiver walk over nothing.

 

[Rob0729]

Rule #1 of losing arguments.
When you are losing the argument attack the arguer.

I will apologize. I shouldn't make it personal.

 

[n1997y]

Let's say I'm traveling from Pittsfield to Cape Cod, and if I get to Northampton by noon, I'm right on time. Then let's say noon arrives, and I find I have gotten all the way to Worcester. Maybe Worcester is not exactly the ideal place to be (!), but I am ahead of schedule.

So Drake's in Worcester. Fortunately, for his sake and ours, he's still driving east.

Why are you or Drake going to Northampton and Worcester? You should be going through Springfield and Sturbridge on the Mass Pike, instead of through Greenfield and Leominster on Route 2. But neither route takes you to either Northampton or Worcester.

Let’s hope Drake isn’t asking you for directions!

 

[TommyD4207]

Why are you or Drake going to Northampton and Worcester? You should be going through Springfield and Sturbridge on the Mass Pike, instead of through Greenfield and Leominster on Route 2. But neither route takes you to either Northampton or Worcester.

Let’s hope Drake isn’t asking you for directions!

Technically you go through Auburn and get 495 in Westboro. It's close to Worcester.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the kid is progressing great. But let's hold off on 'arrived' just yet. He's still young enough that something can go sideways suddenly and HARD. Arriving will look like.... teams getting a longer look at him with an actual coaching staff, functional OL working with him. Right now, it's still hard to say what exactly his strengths and weaknesses are because of how poor the coaching and OL situations were in year one.

Plus, thanks to modern NFL's lack of real offseason physical play, games until about now have been like extended training camp and preseasons.

What I think it IS safe to say is that we didn't do the kid dirty like Belichick did Mac dirty. We got him real coaches that know offense. We got him better talent. We kept the receivers he was developing chemistry with. We didn't break the kid by getting him ferking DC as his OC, decimating his OL, and letting his favorite receiver walk over nothing.

Yes, of course, with young QBs they can look great or even elite potential and then crash completely.

I don't know if Maye will be one of the guys who falls apart when other teams get a book on him. I mean he has started for over a complete season at this point. Even though he is playing significantly better this year than last, they do have enough tape on him to know a lot of his strengths and weaknesses. At this points, any more intel will be more at the granular level. Any big strength or weaknesses are probably known throughout the league. Although there are times that a small thing can be exploited that turns into a major Achilles Heel.

 

[Ring 6]

What is most likely is it a combination of things like I said. He is a second year QB. Jeez. If Maye had this team last year with the coaching staff and players instead of last year's team, he would be better as a rookie. But he wouldn't wouldn't be close to what he is right now. But you know what? If he did have this year's Patriots last year, he might be significantly better today than he is right now. He lost much of last year in his development. He is basically a year behind in his development.

So your argument is he went home in January and came back a different person in August?
So you think he would have held back this years team last year but the suck that was surrounding him last year would be irrelevant now.

Perhaps you can show me all of the examples from this year where his OL and weapons look like last years team and he just flinched it off and then you can point out all of the examples last year when his protection and weapons did great and he spit the bit.
It won’t take long.

He is better this year because the coaching and the team around him allows him to be. He was worse last year because the coaching and team around him made it impossible for him to succeed.
He didn’t become a different player this spring.

 

[Zoomnbyu]

BREAKING NEWS: Rob starts land war in Asia. Says playing with Andy is no longer enough.