How Good Is Our Secondary?

[mgteich]

God that is the LAST kind of thing I want my name associated with. I NEVER believed that Brady EVER "carried" any team to a superbowl. That goes against EVERYTHING I believe about the game. NO individual "carries:" a team to victory. Have you read ANYTHING I've been preaching over the years.

Football is the game we love because of this undeniable adage. Every individual player's success is directly dependent on the success over every other individual player in the play.

No go back and reread all my posts since at least 2018 as a homework assignment. Then reread your own post that precipitated this post and write an analysis.

thank you for your clarification.

You pointed out that we had succeeded in the past with UDFA's, Edelman and Brown at CB. My thought was that this is very difficult to achieve, although we did this sometimes in the Brady age, as teams do now if they have a best of the best QB.

I apologize for any misunderstanding and for misrepresentation you views.

 

[mgteich]

I don't think it's fair to judge until Gonzo is back. If he comes back and they still suck, then it'll be a bigger concern.

Fair enough but having adequate backups means not having big concerns when one player is injured.

 

[Thelonious]

You've never seen a glass as half full in your life have you?

Yeah. Try one of those nice-looking **** sandwiches over there on the buffet.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Fair enough but having adequate backups means not having big concerns when one player is injured.

Having quality depth is a concern for every NFL team.
Take away Sauce from the Jets, Surtain from Denver….and those units become very average.
Quality depth is a nice thought, but realistically no secondary isn’t taking a major downgrade if their all pro CB1 is injured.
The secondaries that can overcome an injury are the teams that are significantly aided by pass rush.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I need to see them with Gonzalez first. S's aren't set yet.

 

[Ring 6]

How good is our secondary? We used to say that this was the strength of the Defense, or perhaps the team.

We used to say that the Offense only needed to be anywhere near average because the Defense, and especially the secondary would carry us to victory. It's eary, but where are we now?

Obviously, we cannot afford injuries (so much for quality depth).

BTW, am I missing something or do we have one of the worst set of safeties, certainly among competing teams. To see just how bad, consider the group if our 4th round rookie is injured or starts to play more like a rookie (which seems reasonable to expect, at least at times).
====================
CORNERS
1) Gonzalez
2) Davis
3) Jones
4) Austin
5) Woods
6) whoever is elevated (usually for ST's)

SAFETIES
1) Woodson
2) Hawkins
3) Dugger
4) Pettus
5) Schooler

Who is we?

 

[Ring 6]

God were catty today.

Of course the 2011 Patriots weren’t a one man team, but that defense was historically bad. Put a replacement level player at QB, they go 6-10.

The 2011 defense was 15th in points allowed. It was also 3rd in takeaways making it above average.
The rest of the offense besides Qb was well above average. The win the AFCE by 5 games. With an average QB they still
win the division and probably about 10 games.

 

[1960Pats]

Boston media has trained us well. Always looking for problems.

It is early, but there's reason for concern, especially if Ras-I Gonzalez continues on the path that he's on.

 

[Ring 6]

I need to see them with Gonzalez first. S's aren't set yet.

Safety depth is non existent. I think they are “set” we just wish they weren’t.

 

[jimnance]

He's more like Polonius than Thelonious.

And full of Baloneyious

 

[Ring 6]

Having quality depth is a concern for every NFL team.
Take away Sauce from the Jets, Surtain from Denver….and those units become very average.
Quality depth is a nice thought, but realistically no secondary isn’t taking a major downgrade if their all pro CB1 is injured.
The secondaries that can overcome an injury are the teams that are significantly aided by pass rush.

I’m not sure the Jets secondary is even average WITH Gardner

 

[Ring 6]

Too early to tell, they’re installing new concepts, involving a lot new people, and running a lot of zone that requires teamwork and communication.

Coverage by everyone including LB’ers has been poor the first two weeks. They’ve had huge breakdowns in coverage, broken coverages, poor tackling… this can be fixed with better coaching and execution.

The first month of the season is no time to judge any team.

All we need is better coaching and better execution? Wow I feel so much better now.

 

[Ring 6]

Fair enough but having adequate backups means not having big concerns when one player is injured.

Which teams have that?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

I’m not sure the Jets secondary is even average WITH Gardner

That’s my point.
People talk about “quality depth”, but in reality it’s nice in thought only.
Take away an all pro CB from anyone’s defense, and 99 times out of 100 you will find quality depth is myth.
Sure some teams depth is better than others, but every teams secondary is taking a major downgrade if their all pro CB is out.

 

[Pape]

Hawkins isn't raw. He's been in the league since 2020. This is his 3rd team and 2nd year here.

First, three teams in four years? come on SBB, typically that is not a "good thing".

He look like a polished starter to you? If you think so, I strongly disagree.

"Raw" is not a dig... To me it means he has an upside, and will get better as a starter... He has not peaked yet... that is how i look at it... ymmv

 

[Wozzy]

All we need is better coaching and better execution? Wow I feel so much better now.

In 2014 we had a lot of fans telling us the Patriots had no talent, said the same in 2016 and 2018. They had no talent, no weapons, the defense was too slow and old. Then with relatively no new talent added, the same talentless teams went on to win Super Bowls.

I swear, some people don’t realize there’s a human element to football. You don’t just plug “talent” into a computer simulation and get perfect execution every time. Execution is a thing, good and great players can play poorly… especially as a unit.

 

[Pape]

Correct. If he’s still raw, then he’s a slow learner and thinking he’s going to get a ton better now might be a little ambitious

Hes been a third string nickel/dime safety for most of his career... you don't really get better sitting on the bench... Getting the opportunity to get reps, to get increased snaps, to be a starter after four years as a sub will lead to better play... ie "he will get better"

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Hes been a third string nickel/dime safety for most of his career... you don't really get better sitting on the bench... Getting the opportunity to get reps, to get increased snaps, to be a starter after four years as a sub will lead to better play... ie "he will get better"

Yes, perhaps we wording was a little ambiguous.
He can get better, but expecting him to make a big jump to above average might be unrealistic.
I would love to be wrong.

 

[signbabybrady]

First, three teams in four years? come on SBB, typically that is not a "good thing".

He look like a polished starter to you? If you think so, I strongly disagree.

"Raw" is not a dig... To me it means he has an upside, and will get better as a starter... He has not peaked yet... that is how i look at it... ymmv

I think you misunderstood me, unfortunately I just don't think he's very good and not much upside. I hope I'm wrong but I think he's a borderline starter and that's probably his ceiling.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Without Gonzo, you have to give a bottom tier ranking based on what we've seen so far. With Gonzo, they improve dramatically, certainly to above average.