How Good Is Our Secondary?

[mgteich]

How good is our secondary? We used to say that this was the strength of the Defense, or perhaps the team.

We used to say that the Offense only needed to be anywhere near average because the Defense, and especially the secondary would carry us to victory. It's eary, but where are we now?

Obviously, we cannot afford injuries (so much for quality depth).

BTW, am I missing something or do we have one of the worst set of safeties, certainly among competing teams. To see just how bad, consider the group if our 4th round rookie is injured or starts to play more like a rookie (which seems reasonable to expect, at least at times).
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CORNERS
1) Gonzalez
2) Davis
3) Jones
4) Austin
5) Woods
6) whoever is elevated (usually for ST's)

SAFETIES
1) Woodson
2) Hawkins
3) Dugger
4) Pettus
5) Schooler

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Pretty hard to answer this.
On paper our starting 2 CBs are arguably as good as any tandem in the league.
Marcus is a good nickel/slot.
Depth is a concern as we’ve seen
Safties…. Well can we get the good Dugger again? What will Woodson develop into?
Like any secondary, you can look a lot better/worse depending on your pass rush.
If Gonzo and Davis are healthy our secondary is more than good enough, no matter who’s playing safety.
If one of those starting 2 CBs are out, especially Gonzo, then the unit could be an issue.

 

[n1997y]

Boston media has trained us well. Always looking for problems.

 

[mgteich]

Boston media has trained us well. Always looking for problems.

I suppose we could simply say that we have a Super Bowl team and be surprised by any losses or lack of production by any of the various units of Offense, Defense and Special Teams. Or we could blame any losses on the refs or on injuries or on Belichick.

Those choices are certainly easier than discussing that discussing strengths and weaknesses.
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ALSO, it is interesting that to discuss strengths and weaknesses is to look for problems.
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[Tunescribe]

I am surprised the defense hasn't been more stout out of the gate, but it's just too early to get a bead on any position group, IMO -- especially with a starter out. After another two-three games I think we can start making assessments.

 

[fnordcircle]

Boston media has trained us well. Always looking for problems.

"Don't post anything unless its positive."

 

[patfanken]

There are a LOT of questions we are not asking that will make that question easier to answer. Who is health? What schemes are they running? How good is the coaching and the game plans each week. Are the schemes and game plans the ones that match up to the physical skills of the players we have? And the big one. How healthy will we be over the course of the season.

I imagine over the course of the season we will meet some offenses that will have their way with our secondary. But like anything else it is hard to separate a portion of the defense, since, like I've been telling you guys for the last ****ing 25 or so years, it is IMPOSSIBLE to separate individual groups is the whole point of the game is that they are so completely interrelated they are together. No one position group succeeds without the success of the other.

We all understand it. I know you do, but it won't stop you from coming here on Monday and start the whole "it's all about this one group, one guy, or on coach" all over again.

In the meantime, I THINK the secondary is going to ultimately be solid to good. If you start to worry, think about it, think about the many years we competed for championships with secondaries that started UDFA rookies and guys like Edelman and Brown. You can do that when the rest of your team is pulling their own weight.

BTW- We are NOT good enough to win a lot of games if we don't turn the ball over more than once a game.

 

[mgteich]

. If you start to worry, think about it, think about the many years we competed for championships with secondaries that started UDFA rookies and guys like Edelman and Brown. You can do that when the rest of your team is pulling their own weight.

I was with your very cogent and informed comment until this.

Please spare us the ideas of how one group could be very weak and Brady could still carry the team. We will never have another Brady, so this kind of argument is quite irrelevant. We CANNOT expect to be a Super Bowl team with UDFA's starting in the secondary and WR's playing CB.

 

[mgteich]

In the meantime, I THINK the secondary is going to ultimately be solid to good.

fair enough

Going into free agency and the draft, I was hoping for better from the secondary this year than solid to good.

 

[patfanken]

I was with your very cogent and informed comment until this.

Please spare us the ideas of how one group could be very weak and Brady could still carry the team. We will never have another Brady, so this kind of argument is quite irrelevant. We CANNOT expect to be a Super Bowl team with UDFA's starting in the secondary and WR's playing CB.

God that is the LAST kind of thing I want my name associated with. I NEVER believed that Brady EVER "carried" any team to a superbowl. That goes against EVERYTHING I believe about the game. NO individual "carries:" a team to victory. Have you read ANYTHING I've been preaching over the years.

Football is the game we love because of this undeniable adage. Every individual player's success is directly dependent on the success over every other individual player in the play.

No go back and reread all my posts since at least 2018 as a homework assignment. Then reread your own post that precipitated this post and write an analysis.

 

[stinkypete]

God that is the LAST kind of thing I want my name associated with. I NEVER believed that Brady EVER "carried" any team to a superbowl. That goes against EVERYTHING I believe about the game. NO individual "carries:" a team to victory. Have you read ANYTHING I've been preaching over the years.

Football is the game we love because of this undeniable adage. Every individual player's success is directly dependent on the success over every other individual player in the play.

No go back and reread all my posts since at least 2018 as a homework assignment. Then reread your own post that precipitated this post and write an analysis.

God were catty today.

Of course the 2011 Patriots weren’t a one man team, but that defense was historically bad. Put a replacement level player at QB, they go 6-10.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't think it's fair to judge until Gonzo is back. If he comes back and they still suck, then it'll be a bigger concern.

 

[Pape]

Gonzo? We can hope for a return to form
Davis will hopefully be better with gonzo on the field... Will see more man, or as it has been called 'cat' coverage I think...

Hawkins and woodson are raw and it shows at times, but I have hope.. Hawkins has an eye for the ball it seems... Think he could be a really good free safety in time... Both have room to grow... let's hope they have a growth spurt this year... Dugger has disappeared... Not sure why, but his quality of play, or lack thereof, indicates this will be his last year in New England...

Austin is a nickel who got targeted / picked on in Miami...he, with the rest of the dbs are nickel and dime depth pieces not a starters...

It's a middle of the pack secondary right now... they'd be helped with better lb play... As it stands there is a reason why we lost to the raiders and got into a track meet we barely survived in Miami... That reason is not the dline...

 

[signbabybrady]

Gonzo? We can hope for a return to form
Davis will hopefully be better with gonzo on the field... Will see more man, or as it has been called 'cat' coverage I think...

Hawkins and woodson are raw and it shows at times, but I have hope.. Hawkins has an eye for the ball it seems... Think he could be a really good free safety in time... Both have room to grow... let's hope they have a growth spurt this year... Dugger has disappeared... Not sure why, but his quality of play, or lack thereof, indicates this will be his last year in New England...

Austin is a nickel who got targeted / picked on in Miami...he, with the rest of the dbs are nickel and dime depth pieces not a starters...

It's a middle of the pack secondary right now... they'd be helped with better lb play... As it stands there is a reason why we lost to the raiders and got into a track meet we barely survived in Miami... That reason is not the dline...

Hawkins isn't raw. He's been in the league since 2020. This is his 3rd team and 2nd year here.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Hawkins isn't raw. He's been in the league since 2020. This is his 3rd team and 2nd year here.

Correct. If he’s still raw, then he’s a slow learner and thinking he’s going to get a ton better now might be a little ambitious

 

[Thelonious]

Probably average, but the real grade is "Incomplete."

 

[signbabybrady]

Probably average, but the real grade is "Incomplete."

You've never seen a glass as half full in your life have you?

 

[Clonamery]

You've never seen a glass as half full in your life have you?

He's more like Polonius than Thelonious.

 

[Clonamery]

fair enough

Going into free agency and the draft, I was hoping for better from the secondary this year than solid to good.

They sure could use a CB or 2, right? WHERE have I heard that before?

How come you can't do a poll right? I would trade you for mosslost in a second, I'd even throw in a 2nd.

 

[Wozzy]

Too early to tell, they’re installing new concepts, involving a lot new people, and running a lot of zone that requires teamwork and communication.

Coverage by everyone including LB’ers has been poor the first two weeks. They’ve had huge breakdowns in coverage, broken coverages, poor tackling… this can be fixed with better coaching and execution.

The first month of the season is no time to judge any team.