Injury Creates Starting Opportunity For Former Patriots Quarterback (Mac Jones)

[sb1]

Belichick wasn't merely a subpar coach his last few years in NE. He was FCUKIN atrocious. If that triggers the cult too frigging bad. If Dan "0-16" Orlovsky is mocking your offense then you oughta hang your head in shame. Nuff said.

No matter what's ahead for Mac Jones once thing is certain. He never had a chance in NE.

Maye wouldn't have either but thankfully that mistake was corrected.

 

[sb1]

Did you miss all the videos of experts like Dan Orlosky and Kurt Warner just trash offensive schemes that Patricia was trying to run? Them pointing out how all receivers ran the same routes right next to each other making it easy to defend.

I don't blame Patricia anymore for this. He did what he could but like Jerod Mayo last season he should have never been in his role to begin with. It wasn't for him. This epic failure of an offense was 100% on Bill. No wonder he's out of the NFL now. This kind of incompetence and arrogance wouldn't be tolerated anywhere.

Seems only right that Patricia looks great in his role at OSU and Bill looks like a total clown show in his role now.

 

[h0c2000]

Thread 'Mac Jones Through 2 Games (2021 vs 2022 vs 2023) By QTR and Redzone Totals'

Sep 19, 2023

Posted this a few minutes ago on Twitter and figured I'd share it here:


Mac Jones Through 2 Games (2021 vs 2022 vs 2023)
Totals (By QTR)
and RedZone)

2021: Total: 51/69 (73.9%) 467yds 1 TD
Q1: 14/15 (93.3%) 106yds
Q2: 17/25 (68%) 169yds 1TD
Q3: 10/14 (71.4%) 138yds
Q4: 10/15 (66.7%) 54yds
Redzone 3/6 (50%) 13yds 1TD

2022: Total: 42/65 (64.6%) 465yds 2TDs 2INTs
Q1: 11/16 (68.8%) 102yds 2 INTs
Q2: 8/13 (61.5%) 128yds 1 TD
Q3: 14/19 (73.7%) 123yds 1TD
Q4: 9/17 (52.9%) 112yds...

• Ian
• Replies: 681
• Forum: PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum

For a stroll down memory lane. I guess I was a Mac Hater too.

 

[signbabybrady]

Huh?!? What are you talking about? I didn't miss anything.

Mac didn't take Belichick's incompetence well. I already said that. I said a better QB would have dealt with Belichick's incompetence better. Brady would have just ignored Patricia and called his own plays at the line. But Mac couldn't do that. Brady would have figured out a way to get rid of the ball quickly behind the awful Patriots o-line and made his chicken bleep receiving corp that ran some of the worst routes I have ever seen into chicken salad. But was Brady.

Did you miss all the videos of experts like Dan Orlosky and Kurt Warner just trash offensive schemes that Patricia was trying to run? Them pointing out how all receivers ran the same routes right next to each other making it easy to defend.

I am sorry, but Belichick's coach his last two years was just as bad as Mac's QBing. After decades of preaching "ignore the noise", he literally manufactured a Q controversy himself that divided the lockerroom. And the following year, he literally started and benched Mac Jones like four games in a row also dividing the team. He refused to talk to his DC and QB that year.

You've repeated this BS several times but you've never explained exactly how Bill Belichick injured Mac? Did he offer a bounty to the Ravens? And then did he intentionally make Zappe just good enough to play and just sucky enough to expose Mac as no better than Zappe?

And for what reason? So he could be left with no QB and dare Kraft to fire him?

It's nuts the narratives you guys invent just because you hate Bill for not winning a 7th like Tom. Brady left and won without us and you guys can't handle it and must burn everything to the ground.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't blame Patricia anymore for this. He did what he could but like Jerod Mayo last season he should have never been in his role to begin with. It wasn't for him. This epic failure of an offense was 100% on Bill. No wonder he's out of the NFL now. This kind of incompetence and arrogance wouldn't be tolerated anywhere.

Seems only right that Patricia looks great in his role at OSU and Bill looks like a total clown show in his role now.

Did you stop counting his winning percentage already?

 

[signbabybrady]

Belichick wasn't merely a subpar coach his last few years in NE. He was FCUKIN atrocious. If that triggers the cult too frigging bad. If Dan "0-16" Orlovsky is mocking your offense then you oughta hang your head in shame. Nuff said.

No matter what's ahead for Mac Jones once thing is certain. He never had a chance in NE.

Maye wouldn't have either but thankfully that mistake was corrected.

Lol I think Dan Orlovsky called Mac the best rookie QB he'd ever seen. Keep getting your takes from that clown it really explains why your always so wrong.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Saints offense is awful and they geared up to stop CMC, they couldn’t do that either.

I’ve always said Mac Jones will have a long career i. the NFL as a backup/occasional starter

They have two games against the Cardinals and Jags at home the next two week, he should put up decent numbers there as well.

But he is what he is, probably got a raw deal in New England that didn’t help his progression

 

[PatsFanInVa]

This is as good a clip on what it takes to be a good QB as I've heard. It's also a great explanation of the differences in QB development that young QB's get.

Tom Brady did NOT come to the Pats even close to fully developed or a star. Remember he sat his entire first year except for a few plays. He threw IIRC about 167 yds in that Rams superbowl and about 50 of them came in the last drive. We used to laugh at Peyton for performances like that when they won the superbowl. My biggest memory of his 3rd year was that he dedicated his off season that 9-7 year to NOT fumbling as much as he did in 02. I remember that it wasn't until over 10 years in that gave us "I know all the answers to the test" comment.

There is so much more than physical ability that makes up what makes up a good QB as Brady pointed out and just how LUCKY he was to come to a team that actually developed him. Few people remember that was Tom's QB coach his 2nd and 3rd years was Bill like he pointed out.

I hate it that too many fans want to give Tom the sole reason for the Pats success while he was here. Thank God Tom ISN'T one of them. He understands how football works.

Absolutely. What we love to do is argue -- take a side, dig in, and see how much we can deride the opponent. Brady is clear-eyed (as are many fans, but you don't notice 100% of the arguments that don't happen).

Now, to throw in some gasoline for the fire, you can say that although the Pats organization under Belichick did an absolutely amazing job developing Brady, they were one of several organizations that might have that success. He would have thrived in all but the terrible few that simply break quarterbacks habitually.

Brady, on the other hand, is super rare as a talent/personality... and it combined with a dynasty-founding narrative that reeked of manifest destiny. It was four years before he lost in the post-season, and he had 3 rings under his belt when it happened. Then he always grew as an individual player, even when that invincibility bubble burst.

I think the 6 rings comes from a perfect storm resulting in the perception, for Brady, for the team, for all of us, that winning it all was always in their own hands. It was there for the taking, year after year, and he refused to look at the game any other way. Give him another narrative and he'd probably be Drew Brees or Peyton Manning. Not a bad thing to be, mind you, but not Tom Brady.

It all had to come together as it did for Brady to be Brady and for New England to be New England in the 2000s and the 2010s, as we knew them.

 

[upstater1]

Belichick doesn't players like that when he thinks he is not the guy. Never happens. Sorry, you are revising history if you think Belichick didn't think he was the guy during his rookie season. If he did, he would gotten a better veteran to back him up than Brian Hoyer (who also IRed because he questioned Patricia's coaching). Word was Belichick was pissed at Hoyer for immediately questioning the offense and Patricia.

What most likely happened is Belichick started to sour on Mac in the preseason probably because he was asking questions. And word was he was asking legitimate questions that Patricia and Judge took as talking back.

Huh? "Doesn't what like that?" I dont know what you mean.

Regardless, as I wrote previously, it's not revisionist when I made this exact point at the time.

How can it be revisionist when I said it then?

That makes no sense.

 

[upstater1]

Huh?!? What are you talking about? I didn't miss anything.

Mac didn't take Belichick's incompetence well. I already said that. I said a better QB would have dealt with Belichick's incompetence better. Brady would have just ignored Patricia and called his own plays at the line. But Mac couldn't do that. Brady would have figured out a way to get rid of the ball quickly behind the awful Patriots o-line and made his chicken bleep receiving corp that ran some of the worst routes I have ever seen into chicken salad. But was Brady.

Did you miss all the videos of experts like Dan Orlosky and Kurt Warner just trash offensive schemes that Patricia was trying to run? Them pointing out how all receivers ran the same routes right next to each other making it easy to defend.

I am sorry, but Belichick's coach his last two years was just as bad as Mac's QBing. After decades of preaching "ignore the noise", he literally manufactured a Q controversy himself that divided the lockerroom. And the following year, he literally started and benched Mac Jones like four games in a row also dividing the team. He refused to talk to his DC and QB that year.

You missed last season apparently, because Mac was at Peterman levels. The very idea that a QB would panic and fumble away the first play he sees shows you how gutless the guy is.

 

[sb1]

You missed last season apparently, because Mac was at Peterman levels. The very idea that a QB would panic and fumble away the first play he sees shows you how gutless the guy is.

He is a backup QB.

 

[Rob0729]

You've repeated this BS several times but you've never explained exactly how Bill Belichick injured Mac? Did he offer a bounty to the Ravens? And then did he intentionally make Zappe just good enough to play and just sucky enough to expose Mac as no better than Zappe?

And for what reason? So he could be left with no QB and dare Kraft to fire him?

It's nuts the narratives you guys invent just because you hate Bill for not winning a 7th like Tom. Brady left and won without us and you guys can't handle it and must burn everything to the ground.

Did I blame Belichick for Mac getting injured? No. He did manufacture a QB controversy by refusing to say if Mac was the starter even after Mac came back. Any responsible head coach would say that Mac the starter and there is no controversy or they are going with Zappe. He purposely hung Mac out to dry. It turned it

I don't hate Bill. I think he is GOAT and defended him passionately against the Brady people for years. So don't say I hated Belichick for not getting a ring without Brady.

Anyone with objectivity can say he was a horrible head coach and GM his last few years in New England and that he undermined Mac at every turn. There is a reason why he isn't in the NFL when someone like Brian Schottenheimer can get another gig. If I am angry with him is that he stopped caring about winning and more interested in putting his people in positions they weren't qualified for and couldn't put his petty differences with the owner players (Mac, Butler) aside for the sake of winning.

 

[Rob0729]

You missed last season apparently, because Mac was at Peterman levels. The very idea that a QB would panic and fumble away the first play he sees shows you how gutless the guy is.

It was clear that Mac didn't trust his o-line. What QB could? The tackles were turnstiles and that is an insult to turnstiles.

Again, Mac didn't handle the pressure in New England well at all. But that doesn't change the fact that Belichick did everything possible to ruin the guy. He followed "How to Ruin a Young QB 101" and wrote a few chapters.

Hell, we are still seeing Belichick making insane decisions at NC. The guy lets his girlfriend attend practices and come down to the sidelines during games. He is blocking Patriots scouts from scouting his players which only hurts his players, not the Pats. He has turned into a petty old man who seems more interested in being comfortable coaching than winning coaching.

 

[upstater1]

It was clear that Mac didn't trust his o-line. What QB could? The tackles were turnstiles and that is an insult to turnstiles.

Again, Mac didn't handle the pressure in New England well at all. But that doesn't change the fact that Belichick did everything possible to ruin the guy. He followed "How to Ruin a Young QB 101" and wrote a few chapters.

Hell, we are still seeing Belichick making insane decisions at NC. The guy lets his girlfriend attend practices and come down to the sidelines during games. He is blocking Patriots scouts from scouting his players which only hurts his players, not the Pats. He has turned into a petty old man who seems more interested in being comfortable coaching than winning coaching.

Always an excuse for Mac.

Ruined. Oh but his O-line.

And never the obvious thing right in front of your eyes. He was always scared. Always panicked. He crumbled. Away from Belichick and the Patriots he made gutless errors.

This is who he is.

 

[Rob0729]

Always an excuse for Mac.

Ruined. Oh but his O-line.

And never the obvious thing right in front of your eyes. He was always scared. Always panicked. He crumbled. Away from Belichick and the Patriots he made gutless errors.

This is who he is.

It isn't an excuse for Mac. He couldn't handle it. He was awful. He showed he doesn't have the stones to be the guy you want to make your franchise.

That doesn't change the fact that Belichick ruined him. Belichick was arguably the worst head coach and GM in the league his last few years here. He made Mac face obstacles that no QB could be successful. And many other QBs would have handled it better though.

Both these things can be the same.

The o-line was awful. Worst than last year. That is the truth. It was in large part because Belichick refused to resign his All Pro guard and drafted a guy in the first round who most other teams in the league saw as a late round pick to replace him. He also hired o-line coach who was awful with a weird scheme that was incompatible to the offense and actually left the team midway through the year.

I think Mac can be a good QB in the right situation. He isn't a guy I would want as the franchise though. I think if he starts for the 49ers long enough that he will show the former. Because Shanahan is going to do what Belichick refused to, put Mac in the absolute best position to succeed.

 

[signbabybrady]

Did I blame Belichick for Mac getting injured? No. He did manufacture a QB controversy by refusing to say if Mac was the starter even after Mac came back. Any responsible head coach would say that Mac the starter and there is no controversy or they are going with Zappe. He purposely hung Mac out to dry. It turned it

I don't hate Bill. I think he is GOAT and defended him passionately against the Brady people for years. So don't say I hated Belichick for not getting a ring without Brady.

Anyone with objectivity can say he was a horrible head coach and GM his last few years in New England and that he undermined Mac at every turn. There is a reason why he isn't in the NFL when someone like Brian Schottenheimer can get another gig. If I am angry with him is that he stopped caring about winning and more interested in putting his people in positions they weren't qualified for and couldn't put his petty differences with the owner players (Mac, Butler) aside for the sake of winning.

I'm still caught up on the intent and purposefully part. Your bordering on treading in hate territory. I just don't understand why anyone would actually think he intentionally would do something like this and you did nothing to explain that?

And whatever happened with Butler we don't know but how can you sit there and honestly say he couldn't put his differences aside when he resigned Butler?

Again he didn't injure Mac and why would he automatically say Mac was the starter if he thought Zappe came in and played as well. The competition was on and Mac couldn't handle it. There was no manufacturing anything it just occurred because of injury and because Mac just wasn't really any better than Zappe. And up until last week this was still true.

For Macs sake hopefully he's managed to grow and definitely looked better than Zappe this time.

It's opinions like this that are just so ridiculous that they are insulting. There is zero logic behind Bill purposely doing things out of vengeance.

When someone suggest something so illogical it brings into question there motives. There are a group of people who come here just to hate BB. If you don't want to get lumped in with them you might want to rethink your terrible opinions.

And Schotenheimer is in the league because he's willing to be Jerry's *****. Bill was never going there and Jerry was never offering. Personally I think Dallas would have been good for him and He'd be good for Jerry but neither were ever accepting that. Jerry could have used someone in the room who he can't think he's smarter than and Bill could have used a GM who would force some skill players down his throat and make him spend a little less frugal.

 

[zydecochris]

Did I blame Belichick for Mac getting injured? No. He did manufacture a QB controversy by refusing to say if Mac was the starter even after Mac came back. Any responsible head coach would say that Mac the starter and there is no controversy or they are going with Zappe. He purposely hung Mac out to dry. It turned it

I don't hate Bill. I think he is GOAT and defended him passionately against the Brady people for years. So don't say I hated Belichick for not getting a ring without Brady.

Anyone with objectivity can say he was a horrible head coach and GM his last few years in New England and that he undermined Mac at every turn. There is a reason why he isn't in the NFL when someone like Brian Schottenheimer can get another gig.

The fact is: BB did something nobody else had done successfully recently in the NFL: he was 100% officially both GM and HC, and enjoyed remarkable success, the GOAT coach. At some point he couldn’t do both things competently anymore and crashed and burned, I think it was hubris and he stopped listening to anyone else (scouts, etc.). Regarding his QB coaching skills, BB was a brilliant coach (football IQ) and he lucked into a QB who was probably even smarter, even more driven, even during BB’s heyday, and BB was the perfect coach for him. Nobody could have taught Brady more about football than BB, it was truly a match made in Heaven.

I have to say I was less impressed with BB’s mentorship for lesser QBs. I think maybe after Brady his other QBs seemed like a complete idiot. Not true of course, just not Brady’s level of football IQ.

 

[upstater1]

It isn't an excuse for Mac. He couldn't handle it. He was awful. He showed he doesn't have the stones to be the guy you want to make your franchise.

That doesn't change the fact that Belichick ruined him. Belichick was arguably the worst head coach and GM in the league his last few years here. He made Mac face obstacles that no QB could be successful. And many other QBs would have handled it better though.

Both these things can be the same.

The o-line was awful. Worst than last year. That is the truth. It was in large part because Belichick refused to resign his All Pro guard and drafted a guy in the first round who most other teams in the league saw as a late round pick to replace him. He also hired o-line coach who was awful with a weird scheme that was incompatible to the offense and actually left the team midway through the year.

I think Mac can be a good QB in the right situation. He isn't a guy I would want as the franchise though. I think if he starts for the 49ers long enough that he will show the former. Because Shanahan is going to do what Belichick refused to, put Mac in the absolute best position to succeed.

Mac will never be good in ANY situation. You are absolutely fooling yourself.

Belichick didn't ruin him. Mac was bad long before that season even got going. The only reason they went with Mac after his teammates lost faith in him is because of the Krafts.

We have a huge problem with ownership meddling. if you think any coach could survive the kind of encouraged mutinies we've seen in New England, you're fooling yourself. And to do it to the greatest coach of all time is unforgivable. I look forward to the day that the Krafts sell the team.

 

[signbabybrady]

It isn't an excuse for Mac. He couldn't handle it. He was awful. He showed he doesn't have the stones to be the guy you want to make your franchise.

That doesn't change the fact that Belichick ruined him. Belichick was arguably the worst head coach and GM in the league his last few years here. He made Mac face obstacles that no QB could be successful. And many other QBs would have handled it better though.

Both these things can be the same.

The o-line was awful. Worst than last year. That is the truth. It was in large part because Belichick refused to resign his All Pro guard and drafted a guy in the first round who most other teams in the league saw as a late round pick to replace him. He also hired o-line coach who was awful with a weird scheme that was incompatible to the offense and actually left the team midway through the year.

I think Mac can be a good QB in the right situation. He isn't a guy I would want as the franchise though. I think if he starts for the 49ers long enough that he will show the former. Because Shanahan is going to do what Belichick refused to, put Mac in the absolute best position to succeed.

And now you have him purposely causing health issues to Klemm. I don't think I need to hear too much more you certainly seem like a hater to me.

 

[upstater1]

The fact is: BB did something nobody else had done successfully recently in the NFL: he was 100% officially both GM and HC, and enjoyed remarkable success, the GOAT coach. At some point he couldn’t do both things competently anymore and crashed and burned, I think it was hubris and he stopped listening to anyone else (scouts, etc.). Regarding his QB coaching skills, BB was a brilliant coach (football IQ) and he lucked into a QB who was probably even smarter, even more driven, even during BB’s heyday, and BB was the perfect coach for him. Nobody could have taught Brady more about football than BB, it was truly a match made in Heaven.

I have to say I was less impressed with BB’s mentorship for lesser QBs. I think maybe after Brady his other QBs seemed like a complete idiot. Not true of course, just not Brady’s level of football IQ.

"Stopped listening to the scouts..." coincided with Kraft saying Belichick needed to start listening "to personnel people" around 2020, which also coincided with Eliot Wolf's hiring. If it wasn't plainly obvious to people already, the draft room was different. Go look at a recording of when the Patriots took Mac Jones and tell me there wasn't a lot of hesitation. There was. Callahan at the Herald was more tuned into the new dynamic and he wrote about it frequently. Now, Belichick had a bad several years of drafting before 2020, but that was also when they were winning Super Bowls, picking last in each round, trading away picks for old vets, and losing picks for scandals.

As for Belichick and his mentorship of QBs, maybe you can say the record is mixed. Because in Cleveland, he resurrected Vinny Testaverde (who was considered a bust) into a Pro Bowl level QB. Then there was Brady. But Brady was followed by Matt Cassel who had an 11-5 year in 2008. That's mentorship as well. In fact, prior to 2020, the total record for subs QBs in the Brady era was 14-6 (counting Brady's deflategate punishment).

It really wasn't until Mac Jones that we saw any problems with any QBs and Belichick. Callahan must be onto something when he says there was ambivalence in drafting Mac Jones in the first place. It's not like Belichick didn't get a first hand read of Jones's psychology from Saban.

Some people might be tempted to go back and say Belichick ruined Bernie Kosar who was Cleveland's favorite son. But what did Kosar do after Belichick gave his job to Vinny T.? Belichick was vilified for doing it. Then you look at Cleveland's record after Belichick made the switch. It was night and day. They went from losing to a playoff team. He should have made that switch even sooner... but he had an owner and a fanbase invested in a losing washed QB. It took a lot of guts to make that switch at all.