Any Thoughts on Impacts of a Treveyon Henderson Holdout? (Update: He's Signed)

[Real fan 02]

I'm not sure why people are advocating for guaranteed contracts in football. We all want to see players earn what they deserve, but just look at the Deshaun Watson contract. That was akin to an MLB contract and he hasn't earned a single nickel of it so Cleveland fans will have to see their team do with less for the foreseeable future.

Players do deserve guaranteed contracts.. MLB players get guaranteed contracts as well as NBA players so shouldn't NFL players, they subject themselves for injuries and in some cases loss of life to entertain us.. of course they all know the risk of playing the game but they chose to do it so they should get contracts guaranteed
Watson got paid at the time becuase of where he was as a QB at the time. He was thought as a top 10 QB. It's all about timing.. QBs will eventually be making 80 or 90 million a season one day or close to it.. it's already over 50 million

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I'm not sure why people are advocating for guaranteed contracts in football. We all want to see players earn what they deserve, but just look at the Deshaun Watson contract. That was akin to an MLB contract and he hasn't earned a single nickel of it so Cleveland fans will have to see their team do with less for the foreseeable future.

It seems like the right thing to do across the board. It might also bring more sanity to the process. Right now you can get away with a few Deshaun Watson contracts because it's the exception, not the rule. If every contract was guaranteed, with a hard cap, you'd have to do it differently. But that might assume more rational thinking than exists.

 

[maust]

I'm not sure why people are advocating for guaranteed contracts in football. We all want to see players earn what they deserve, but just look at the Deshaun Watson contract. That was akin to an MLB contract and he hasn't earned a single nickel of it so Cleveland fans will have to see their team do with less for the foreseeable future.

For me at least, there's a world of difference between a wage slotted rookie contract being fully guaranteed for and a veteran contract.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not sure why people are advocating for guaranteed contracts in football. We all want to see players earn what they deserve, but just look at the Deshaun Watson contract. That was akin to an MLB contract and he hasn't earned a single nickel of it so Cleveland fans will have to see their team do with less for the foreseeable future.

It's not question of advocating but a question of if it would work which it can. Yes, things would need to be structured differently like rookie deals and allowing for buyouts but "success" means a) the league still be financially healthy, b) franchises still profitable, and c) all tier of players (high, middle, and low cost players) benefiting. If you follow the NHL salary and cap model, the answer is an emphatic yes.

 

[mgteich]

.

There should be a trade off somewhere. If rookies can't get massive deals even when they have high end value or proved it in year one or two, then they should get guarantees for a smaller wage.

this

 

[mgteich]

No. I'm considering how NFL owners actually spend money and their lack of self control.

Are you concerned about spending money or owners disagreeing with you about how they spend the salary cap?

I separate money issues from cap issues. As you well know, they are very different issues with different rules.

For example, our team does not spend anywhere enough on training facilities, practice facilities and on the support of the families of team members.

 

[mgteich]

Players do deserve guaranteed contracts.

Do you also agree that there should be no upper limits on rookie compensation?

Negotiations balance the interests of the parties.

 

[mgteich]

+

Henderson is making 3 mil preseason which is peanuts if he is a good RB which I believe that he will be.

Henderson would likely get more on the open free agent market, especially since his contract is for 4 years.

The rookie scale was a compromise that disadvantages players at the top. At very least they should get guaranteed contracts.

Folks worry about all rookies getting guaranteed contracts. They should be more concerned with players choosing to stay and earn more in college and earning more.

 

[Triumph]

Henderson would likely get more on the open free agent market, especially since his contract is for 4 years.

The rookie scale was a compromise that disadvantages players at the top. At very least they should get guaranteed contracts.

Folks worry about all rookies getting guaranteed contracts. They should be more concerned with players choosing to stay and earn more in college and earning more.

Choose players worth the guaranteed contract.

Per my example choose Mconkey in lieu of Polk. Simple as that.

 

[Ring 6]

Players do deserve guaranteed contracts.. MLB players get guaranteed contracts as well as NBA players so shouldn't NFL players, they subject themselves for injuries and in some cases loss of life to entertain us.. of course they all know the risk of playing the game but they chose to do it so they should get contracts guaranteed
Watson got paid at the time becuase of where he was as a QB at the time. He was thought as a top 10 QB. It's all about timing.. QBs will eventually be making 80 or 90 million a season one day or close to it.. it's already over 50 million

They aren’t risking anything IN ORDER TO ENTERTAIN US. No player is out there because they want entertain. They want to compete and they want to be paid.
I just don’t think the best thing for a sport, in any way, is using part of a capped payroll to pay players who aren’t playing.
It’s odd to be that people have sympathy to have guys earning in the top 5% not miss a pay check.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you also agree that there should be no upper limits on rookie compensation?

Negotiations balance the interests of the parties.

The NFLPA and NFL both agreed that no limits on rookie contracts was bad for both sides.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not question of advocating but a question of if it would work which it can. Yes, things would need to be structured differently like rookie deals and allowing for buyouts but "success" means a) the league still be financially healthy, b) franchises still profitable, and c) all tier of players (high, middle, and low cost players) benefiting. If you follow the NHL salary and cap model, the answer is an emphatic yes.

Allowing for a buyout would make it not a guaranteed contract.

You are correct about an and b, but not c. There is one pie. If you give a slice to players who are not in the league any longer, the ones in the league suffer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Are you concerned about spending money or owners disagreeing with you about how they spend the salary cap?

I separate money issues from cap issues. As you well know, they are very different issues with different rules.

"Concerned" is not the word I would use. It's calling out owners and GMs who make stupid financial decisions on players and think it's OK just because they keep finding money under the mattress every year. The cap and partially guaranteed deals bails them out. I get it.

For example, our team does not spend anywhere enough on training facilities, practice facilities and on the support of the families of team members.

What does that have to do with guaranteeing player salaries?

Patriots made $740m last year w/ an operating margin of $250m. The seem to be financially healthy enough to make the investments you call out but we don't know what their complete balance sheet looks like (long term debt service, etc).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Allowing for a buyout would make it not a guaranteed contract.]

Yes it does. They are paying the player to go away and restructuring the remainder of his. An example of this is the Damian Lillard contract in he NBA. NHL has a similar mechanism.

You are correct about an and b, but not c. There is one pie. If you give a slice to players who are not in the league any longer, the ones in the league suffer.

If the team runs it's business right, all players on the back-end of rosters are still paid well.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes it does. They are paying the player to go away and restructuring the remainder of his. An example of this is the Damian Lillard contract in he NBA. NHL has a similar mechanism.

If the team runs its business right, all players on the back-end of rosters are still paid well.

If a salary is guaranteed it can’t be bought out, by definition.

It is impossible to pay players not in the roster under the cap and not have that reduce what the players on the roster are paid. Regardless of your double talk, and moving of the goal posts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If a salary is guaranteed it can’t be bought out, by definition.

Definition is irrelevent in this real-life situation. They are paying the player his guaranteed sum to not play for the team.

It is impossible to pay players not in the roster under the cap and not have that reduce what the players on the roster are paid. Regardless of your double talk, and moving of the goal posts.

I'm not moving any goal posts. My point is the practicality of guaranteed deals in the NFL and how ownership can manage it like the NHL does.

You are talking cap. That is expanding the scope of the discussion.

 

[Ring 6]

Definition is irrelevent in this real-life situation. They are paying the player his guaranteed sum to not play for the team.

I'm not moving any goal posts. My point is the practicality of guaranteed deals in the NFL and how ownership can manage it like the NHL does.

You are talking cap. That is expanding the scope of the discussion.

No I am saying that guaranteeing contracts for some players costs other players money. Every dollar you “help” a player with “hurts” a different player.

 

[Real fan 02]

They aren’t risking anything IN ORDER TO ENTERTAIN US. No player is out there because they want entertain. They want to compete and they want to be paid.
I just don’t think the best thing for a sport, in any way, is using part of a capped payroll to pay players who aren’t playing.
It’s odd to be that people have sympathy to have guys earning in the top 5% not miss a pay check.

So they aren't risking anything?????

They aren’t risking anything IN ORDER TO ENTERTAIN US. No player is out there because they want entertain. They want to compete and they want to be paid.
I just don’t think the best thing for a sport, in any way, is using part of a capped payroll to pay players who aren’t playing.
It’s odd to be that people have sympathy to have guys earning in the top 5% not miss a pay check.

They aren't risking anything???? Your right chuck Hughes never died on the field and darmar Hamlin never had to be revived your right.. what was i thinking.. silly me...

 

[Ring 6]

So they aren't risking anything?????
They aren't risking anything???? Your right chuck Hughes never died on the field and darmar Hamlin never had to be revived your right.. what was i thinking.. silly me...

Do you understand the English language? “They aren’t risking anythong IN ORDER TO ENTERTAIN YOU” doesn’t mean they aren’t risking anything it means the reason you stated is wrong.
Chuck Hughes had a heath attack, he didn’t die because of football.

 

[Real fan 02]

Do you understand the English language? “They aren’t risking anythong IN ORDER TO ENTERTAIN YOU” doesn’t mean they aren’t risking anything it means the reason you stated is wrong.
Chuck Hughes had a heath attack, he didn’t die because of football.

Stevie wonder can see that you clearly can't comprehend the English language. I said they risk thier health to entertain us. Yes it's something they CHOOSE to do!.. however it comes as long term health risk.. playing football exasperated Hughes health and well being. Hamlin died on the field and was revived, Ron brace died post football from heart related issues and stopped playing early due to the stress playing football would put on his body. Corey stringer died in training camp.. common denominator is FOOTBALL!!!!!! Phil adams took His life from CTE. Look at Antonio brown pre and post the burfict hit.. there are many of examples.. I'm not going to go back and forth on. My points are all factual to what players endure risk associated with playing to entertain us.