Any Thoughts on Impacts of a Treveyon Henderson Holdout? (Update: He's Signed)

[RobertWeathers]

It’s a zero sum gain. Guarantees are only relevant when a player is cut. The money paid to the cut players counts against the cap and reduces what they other players earn

The topic isn't about the cap. It's about players receiving 100% of the contract value no matter what. Things like roster, workout, and performance -based bonuses become even more important.

 

[Ring 6]

The topic isn't about the cap. It's about players receiving 100% of the contract value no matter what. Things like roster, workout, and performance -based bonuses become even more important.

You are missing the point. The consequence of guaranteed contracts is that for everyone that benefits from it another player suffers.
The difference would be that a guy who is released still gets paid. Under a salary cap that means less money for players on the roster. As a group players don’t gain anything, it’s just shifting money from some players to others.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The topic isn't about the cap. It's about players receiving 100% of the contract value no matter what. Things like roster, workout, and performance -based bonuses become even more important.

The CBA creates a fixed salary cap. If Henderson is guaranteed an amount and busts, that hurts other team mates that make it. Having said that I don't blame him for wanting his share guaranteed.

 

[Triumph]

There was never any doubt that he would be there Tuesday

 

[Huckleberry1]

The deal is done.

The New England Patriots have reportedly signed rookie running back TreVeyon Henderson to a fully guaranteed four-year, $11.14 million contract. The deal includes a $4.74 million signing bonus and a $2.03 million cap charge in 2025, according to Yahoo Sports. This agreement follows a trend of second-round picks securing fully guaranteed contracts in the 2025 draft.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Long term deals, even 4 year rookie contracts should be fully EARNED not guaranteed. I've been plain on my opinion on that in this thread. However, since the vast majority of the 2nd round contracts get paid in full anyway, its much ado about nothing in the big picture of things

If I were his agent I would have gone to get the highest total deal with some of it not fully guaranteed; even though most 2nd round contract get paid off. (Yes, I said that in the previous paragraph, but it bears repeating). Maybe he went for a slightly lower 4 year number, but getting it ALL guaranteed. Who knows. It NEVER really mattered since what is happening was ALWAYS going to happen.

I disagree. Running backs are treated by this league as disposable. They take a serious beating every game, make less than their counterparts, and don’t get the kind of second deals other positions get. Saquon Barkley was league MVP and he makes about half of what Calvin Ridley got. Those are just the facts of life in the NFL, but I don’t blame any running back for demanding every cent of their deal when they get the living **** beat out of them every game.

 

[lancerman]

The CBA creates a fixed salary cap. If Henderson is guaranteed an amount and busts, that hurts other team mates that make it. Having said that I don't blame him for wanting his share guaranteed.

The CBA also has a rookie wage scale where draftees can't sign for massive contracts, this benefits all the vets on the team who don't have to compete with the rookies for a bigger slice of the cap for a few years. Around a quarter to a third of the roster is almost always rookie contracts.

There should be a trade off somewhere. If rookies can't get massive deals even when they have high end value or proved it in year one or two, then they should get guarantees for a smaller wage.

 

[lancerman]

You are missing the point. The consequence of guaranteed contracts is that for everyone that benefits from it another player suffers.
The difference would be that a guy who is released still gets paid. Under a salary cap that means less money for players on the roster. As a group players don’t gain anything, it’s just shifting money from some players to others.

The rookie wage scale already shifts money from some players to the other. Years ago Campbell could get drafted and say, make me a top 10 paid OL or I won't sign and if you don't sign me I can find that deal elsewhere. With how QB salaries went, Drake Maye could have come in and demanded an over 100 million contract value or the Pats don't get their QB they drafted.

All the vets on the roster don't have to deal with that now and worry about a new guy devouring the cap despite never taking a single snap in the league because they made a big name in college and had hype.

If guys are going to have a cap on their earnings for the first few years, the league can take the hit and guarantee it.

 

[Ring 6]

The CBA creates a fixed salary cap. If Henderson is guaranteed an amount and busts, that hurts other team mates that make it. Having said that I don't blame him for wanting his share guaranteed.

Hence the inherent dichotomy of unions, take better care of your strongest members or create more jobs for the newer ones.

Looking at things without considering consequences confuses the impact. Like when we make banks cut overdraft charges. Those fees just get moved to more interest on loans or less interest on savings and everyone pays the costs rather than the violator. It was never going to result in lost net revenue to banks.

 

[Wozzy]

Much ado about nothing…

 

[Ring 6]

The rookie wage scale already shifts money from some players to the other. Years ago Campbell could get drafted and say, make me a top 10 paid OL or I won't sign and if you don't sign me I can find that deal elsewhere. With how QB salaries went, Drake Maye could have come in and demanded an over 100 million contract value or the Pats don't get their QB they drafted.

All the vets on the roster don't have to deal with that now and worry about a new guy devouring the cap despite never taking a single snap in the league because they made a big name in college and had hype.

If guys are going to have a cap on their earnings for the first few years, the league can take the hit and guarantee it.

But the league isn’t taking a hit, that’s the point. If Henderson gets cut before playing a game, his guaranteed pay doesn’t come out of “the league” it’s charged to the salary cap and reduces dollar for dollar the amount other patriot players can get paid. The extra money paid to a player with a guarantee who isn’t on the roster comes from he other players on the team.
In the long run it costs jobs because the result would be making up the difference by keeping a UDFA over a veteran or something along those lines.
There is a cost born by the guarantee and the cost is born by the cap and therefore the other players.

 

[Ring 6]

The CBA also has a rookie wage scale where draftees can't sign for massive contracts, this benefits all the vets on the team who don't have to compete with the rookies for a bigger slice of the cap for a few years. Around a quarter to a third of the roster is almost always rookie contracts.

There should be a trade off somewhere. If rookies can't get massive deals even when they have high end value or proved it in year one or two, then they should get guarantees for a smaller wage.

It’s a valid point from the standpoint of the rookie who stinks and gets cut. But it comes at the expense of other players. Seems more unfair that a guy sitting home because he stunk gets paid while the guy earning a job doesn’t.

 

[Ring 6]

The rookie wage scale already shifts money from some players to the other. Years ago Campbell could get drafted and say, make me a top 10 paid OL or I won't sign and if you don't sign me I can find that deal elsewhere. With how QB salaries went, Drake Maye could have come in and demanded an over 100 million contract value or the Pats don't get their QB they drafted.

All the vets on the roster don't have to deal with that now and worry about a new guy devouring the cap despite never taking a single snap in the league because they made a big name in college and had hype.

If guys are going to have a cap on their earnings for the first few years, the league can take the hit and guarantee it.

Also arguably the rookie wage scale is designed specially for fairness so that rookies don’t take money away from proven players.
It’s really just an official and union/NFL agreed codifying of the concept that rookies will not take the league hostage and dune through the CBA to avoid accusation of collusion.

 

[lancerman]

It’s a valid point from the standpoint of the rookie who stinks and gets cut. But it comes at the expense of other players. Seems more unfair that a guy sitting home because he stunk gets paid while the guy earning a job doesn’t.

Sure but I would argue saying to someone "you can't negotiate as much you could get because a bunch of vets agreed to put a ceiling on you because they want more of the pie" then there's a reasonable perspective that a trade off of making lower value rookie contracts guaranteed is fairer.

Teams and other vets on the team are already on the team are gaining far more not having to deal with some young guy out of college who has a ton of leverage saying "give me the big bucks before I do anything or you don't get me"

In the end 1 million a year for most rookies being on the books (something that will readjust to be mostly equalized) isn't going to be as much of an albatross as the old way

 

[Calhoun44]

But the league isn’t taking a hit, that’s the point. If Henderson gets cut before playing a game, his guaranteed pay doesn’t come out of “the league” it’s charged to the salary cap and reduces dollar for dollar the amount other patriot players can get paid. The extra money paid to a player with a guarantee who isn’t on the roster comes from he other players on the team.
In the long run it costs jobs because the result would be making up the difference by keeping a UDFA over a veteran or something along those lines.
There is a cost born by the guarantee and the cost is born by the cap and therefore the other players.

Could you explain how "it costs jobs"? From the example you gave, it wouldn't eliminate a job, just change the person who is willing to take a lower paying wage. Maybe that was your point? Or maybe I am missing some detail from earlier in the thread that the player with the guaranteed contract still takes up a roster spot?

 

[Since1960]

Hold Out?? What Holdout??!!

 

[Grogan14]

But the league isn’t taking a hit, that’s the point. If Henderson gets cut before playing a game, his guaranteed pay doesn’t come out of “the league” it’s charged to the salary cap and reduces dollar for dollar the amount other patriot players can get paid. The extra money paid to a player with a guarantee who isn’t on the roster comes from he other players on the team.
In the long run it costs jobs because the result would be making up the difference by keeping a UDFA over a veteran or something along those lines.
There is a cost born by the guarantee and the cost is born by the cap and therefore the other players.

This is the way every other pro league compensates their players. Yes Henderson might not perform up to expectations
That is on the pats scouting depsrtment for poor pre draft scouting.
Pats need to be comfortable with bust risk before selecting a player at 38

Teams that make bad picks will be financially penalized via guaranteed contract
Good!

 

[Ring 6]

Could you explain how "it costs jobs"? From the example you gave, it wouldn't eliminate a job, just change the person who is willing to take a lower paying wage. Maybe that was your point? Or maybe I am missing some detail from earlier in the thread that the player with the guaranteed contract still takes up a roster spot?

Right, it would create the need to keep more minimum wage guys and cost jobs for the mid tier guys.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the way every other pro league compensates their players. Yes Henderson might not perform up to expectations
That is on the pats scouting depsrtment for poor pre draft scouting.
Oatriots need to be comfortable with bust risk before selecting a player at 38

Teams that make bad picks will be financially penalized via guaranteed contract
Good!

The NFL compensation plan is not like other leagues to begin with. The cap, the up front signing bonuses, etc.

You bring up another point though, the quality of the product on the field would decline because you have more dead money wasted.

Ultimately if you guarantee salaries, more money goes to guys who don’t contribute and due to the cap less money is available for players who do contribute.

 

[Triumph]

Its a lot of money, but some states tax you to death like NY and NJ.

Henderson has 3 games there.