Any Thoughts on Impacts of a Treveyon Henderson Holdout? (Update: He's Signed)

[ctpatsfan77]

LOL
Why not give every player a $700K bonus for attending training camp.

Henderson won't be the first or last to sign. He is likely to sign when the majority sign. He is not a leader in this action.

BTW, who is his agent? Is he close to any of the coaches?
============
BTW, I'm fine with seeing more of Larison in camp.

A guy signed at 43, so it's not likely to be too much longer.

 

[Hyped]

Dominoes have started falling with one Bears player and the Ravens about to sign their second rounder….

Henderson should be signed before veterans report in six days….

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I ain't no lawyer, but a non-guaranteed contract is a sorta bizarre mechanism that we have gotten used to. If they were all guaranteed (with some sort of standard injury protection), it might bring more sanity to the process. But I still believe in Santa Clause.

 

[maust]

Ummm . . . they took Luther Burden III at 39. They took Turner at 62, so his contract won't be of much relevance here. Roger Rosengarten, selected 62 last year, got 4 yr/$6.5M, with about 50% guaranteed.

Good catch, my bad

 

[patfanken]

I'm basically AGAINST guaranteed contracts, but here is where I would relent. I'm fine with guaranteeing a contract for the current year, but for future years I'd like to see it work this way.

I'm OK with it being guaranteed based on games played. So it works this way. If you are on the 53 for that game your contract your game check is guaranteed. If you aren't then only a percentage is guaranteed. Why should the team have to pay you top dollar if you aren't on the field. BTW, It's not like they aren't going to zero if you don't play. For example if you only guarantee 50% for a game you don't play in, there are a good number of guys who would make north of $500,000. Hundreds would be making $250,000

Injuries are a part of the game, and they suck, but players are constantly touting their own individual stats and contributions when they are asking for raises based on past performance.

I'm trying to be fair to BOTH the player and team. But I wonder what the percentage of players played in every game and what the average number of games played for the league. My totally wild guess would be in the 13-14 game range

Also not having a percentage of you contract guaranteed does NOT mean you will not get the full amount.

 

[n1997y]

I'm basically AGAINST guaranteed contracts, but here is where I would relent. I'm fine with guaranteeing a contract for the current year, but for future years I'd like to see it work this way.

I'm OK with it being guaranteed based on games played. So it works this way. If you are on the 53 for that game your contract your game check is guaranteed. If you aren't then only a percentage is guaranteed. Why should the team have to pay you top dollar if you aren't on the field. BTW, It's not like they aren't going to zero if you don't play. For example if you only guarantee 50% for a game you don't play in, there are a good number of guys who would make north of $500,000. Hundreds would be making $250,000

Injuries are a part of the game, and they suck, but players are constantly touting their own individual stats and contributions when they are asking for raises based on past performance.

I'm trying to be fair to BOTH the player and team. But I wonder what the percentage of players played in every game and what the average number of games played for the league. My totally wild guess would be in the 13-14 game range

Also not having a percentage of you contract guaranteed does NOT mean you will not get the full amount.

Not sure I followed your thoughts on injuries.

Yes, injuries are part of the game, but the players take all the risk of life altering health effects while teams and owners have no skin in that part of game. So I’d think 100% guaranteed for injury seems fair and appropriate.

Rookie contract guarantees for skill seem less clear to me, given the rookie washout rate. I’d think a better approach might be a vesting system, perhaps have the first year salary guaranteed at signing, with guarantees for subsequent years being dependent on making the roster in the previous season. So if you make the roster in your rookie year your second year salary becomes guaranteed. If you get cut in your rookie training camp you don’t get any second or subsequent year guarantees. Could even be percentage based, so if you make a roster coming out of your rookie training camp your second year salary is 80% guaranteed, your third year is 60% guaranteed, fourth year is 40% guaranteed, or something like that.

After rookie contracts it becomes as it is now, fully negotiable for whatever deal the player can swing.

 

[doesntmatter1]

With Josh as our OC, we have a history of rookie players not doing much their first year. Any kind of hold out will ensure more of the same. I guess Stevenson may be able to breathe a little.

 

[MrTibbs]

Running backs in McDaniel's system typically red-shirt a season. I can't think of any who made an impact their first season.

 

[Dragda]

Bring in another FA RB to make them nervous

 

[moosekill]

Running backs in McDaniel's system typically red-shirt a season. I can't think of any who made an impact their first season.

Did Sony Michel play with Josh his rookie year?

 

[Froob]

Tough sledding making millions coming out of College...at 21-26yrs old.
I feel ZERO Sympathy for these guys.

He doesn't want to sign? ****'em.

alright man lol. i’m not gonna criticize the kid for making a move that will effect generations of his family. You get hurt and you could lose millions in non guaranteed money. It’s a business first.

 

[n1997y]

alright man lol. i’m not gonna criticize the kid for making a move that will effect generations of his family. You get hurt and you could lose millions in non guaranteed money. It’s a business first.

The kind of coin he’s getting he and his family will be secure as long as he doesn’t go over the top stupid blowing it on bling and blow.

And the difference we are talking here with the guarantees won’t mean his kids can retire when they graduate high school without working a day in their life. Either way it’s not that profound.

 

[Triumph]

Running backs in McDaniel's system typically red-shirt a season. I can't think of any who made an impact their first season.

Sonny Michel

He had twice as many snaps as James White year # 1. Started 8 games and played in 13.

Sonny was pick # 31 and Henderson was # 38. The Pats could have taken WR there, but chose not to. I really doubt that Henderson is going to fetch Gatorade for Stevenson. I don't see Stevenson out of the woods at all. His fumbling and cap number make him expendable. If the Pats can get a decent draft pick for Rham its asta lavista muchacho.

Mickey D likes passing to the RBs. I believe the Pats want a better receiving RB like a James White. The NE pass offense is ranked 32nd in yards, 31st in pass TDs and 29th in Net pass yards.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I understand wanting the money. For many of these players this will be the most cash they ever see. They aren't getting second contracts worth a penny up front next time if they don't perform. May as well make as much as you can now

Especially running backs, they are far less likely to dee a big second deal.

 

[Water Boy]

No sympathy for the players but you seem sympathetic with the owners' cause that they should be able to cut him to save some money if he gets hit wrong in training camp and his knee starts bending at a 90 degree angle out to the side.

It's insane how the narrative amongst fans is anti-player in favor of owners taking on less risk and pocketing more money. The entire premise of ownership in sports is that they deserve huge shares of the profits because of the huge financial risk they assume, but on any issue with players fans want the players to be the one holding onto the risk.

As a fan of the TEAM, having lots of salary cap money tied up in guaranteed money in players who don't perform to the value of the contract hurts the team's chance of winning.

I'm sympathetic to injuries. I believe there are insurance policies for these sorts of things. If a player suffers a catastrophic injury (eg Robert Edwards) year one, do you really want to take on the full cap hit in years 2-4?

 

[patfanken]

Now that the first break throughs have happened, I will be disappointed if Henderson isn't signed by Monday,

 

[Froob]

The kind of coin he’s getting he and his family will be secure as long as he doesn’t go over the top stupid blowing it on bling and blow.

And the difference we are talking here with the guarantees won’t mean his kids can retire when they graduate high school without working a day in their life. Either way it’s not that profound.

I don’t think it’s fair for us to criticize the kid, is the point. For us, it’s entertainment. For him, it’s his job.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Suppose Henderson winds up being an elite RB, and look at a lot of the other elite RBs, you can be completely washed by 28 years old. Gotta get what you can while you can. As fans we dint like it because we want him on the field. But he’s a person not a commodity.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Negotiation is part of the life of a pro athlete. I will never fault a player for doing their damndest to get as much money up front/guaranteed as possible. 50/50 they will barely be able to walk before they are 65.

I understand from the Patriots PoV they want to careful about setting a precedent (100% guarantees) but IMO they are prolonging the inevitable.

At some point the NFL will evolve as other pro teams have and start giving them out.

 

[maust]

Negotiation is part of the life of a pro athlete. I will never fault a player for doing their damndest to get as much money up front/guaranteed as possible. 50/50 they will barely be able to walk before they are 65.

I understand from the Patriots PoV they want to careful about setting a precedent (100% guarantees) but IMO they are prolonging the inevitable.

At some point the NFL will evolve as other pro teams have and start giving them out.

All too often fans seem to forget it's only a sport to us, for everyone directly involved it's a business. I've never begrudged any player in any sport using any legit leverage they have to improve their lot, business is busine$$. As an example is Kirk Cousins to blame for what owners have paid him? Hell no, good for him, he leveraged his position properly at every opportunity. I can hold him in contempt for whining about the position he put himself in by signing with Atlanta but that's hardly the same thing. He took their money, he takes what comes with it. The fundamentals of contractual employment are something the average fan hasn't got much experience with.

The CBA has hard and fast payroll slots for rookie draft picks, making how and if the payout happens the only real bone of contention in a rookie contract. As no position group is as unlikely to see a second contract as RB's it behooves them to be concerned with guarantees more than most. Again, it's just business and the factors inherent to that business.