Agree or disagree? The Maye bar is ankle high.

[n1997y]

But how many wheel routes by a RB can McDaniels call in one game?

Don’t challenge him!

 

[Real fan 02]

That’s why Hunter Henry is the security blanket for Maye. If he is absent from the starting lineup, Maye starts forcing it. McDaniels will use a heavy dose of TreVeyon I Love Jesus Henderson.

But how many wheel routes by a RB can McDaniels call in one game?

Absolutely. Henry is a top 10 TE in the league. He has double digit TDs when he last played for Josh. I except him to be a huge red zone target. Also Diggs is a excellent red zone target as well he can beat coverage and slip behind the defense to get open. I feel Henderson will be integrated more and more each week as his comfort levels grow.. Rham and Gibson likely start off as the guys at RB and Henderson will be sprinkled in at first however by mid season I full expect Henderson to be heavily involved at RB.

 

[Real fan 02]

Lawrence and Herbert are heading into Phillip Rivers Hell.

Maye is so green. We are expecting phenomenal strides with this team. It dont work that way. The Brady's and Mahone's happen because the right place and right time and right team and, its all luck.

Agreed if you saw my post to maust.. the points I was trying to make without going into long paragraphs is simply the guys who are special we seem to see those traits in them early on.. if a guys been in the league 5,6 seasons and they fizzle in the postseason then that's part of thier DNA.. coaches aren't calling plays for guys to throw picks.. Drake is special and had we kept the Mayo regime he wouldn't have tapped into his full potential.

 

[KCSVEN]

That’s why Hunter Henry is the security blanket for Maye. If he is absent from the starting lineup, Maye starts forcing it. McDaniels will use a heavy dose of TreVeyon I Love Jesus Henderson.

But how many wheel routes by a RB can McDaniels call in one game?

We also have Diggs and if he's close to himself he'll make a big difference. Then hopefully 1 of the rookies' is a player. The line and receivers will be improved, just a question of how much.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We also have Diggs and if he's close to himself he'll make a big difference. Then hopefully 1 of the rookies' is a player. The line and receivers will be improved, just a question of how much.

With Campbell, Strange, Bradbury, Moses, Sow, the line will improve in run blocking, but the pass blocking might not be the best. All of those guys have high RAS scores and are athletic, but a bit light in the pants. We will see.

 

[Real fan 02]

With Campbell, Strange, Bradbury, Moses, Sow, the line will improve in run blocking, but the pass blocking might not be the best. All of those guys have high RAS scores and are athletic, but a bit light in the pants. We will see.

Also feel like we have to take consideration into how much a difference that Marrone will make with the entire operation of the OL.. I'm looking forward to the next forged in Foxborough Episode on the 18th.. from the clips I saw Marrone seems to be very heavily involved and demanding with his coaching. Great to see as a fan!

 

[Real fan 02]

We also have Diggs and if he's close to himself he'll make a big difference. Then hopefully 1 of the rookies' is a player. The line and receivers will be improved, just a question of how much.

 

[maust]

My guy... I'm not your nemesis..I'm in agreement with you.. im just expressing it differently that's all my guy.. it's all good

Oh my confrontation averse friend, adult disagreement on a point shouldn't be taken as animosity of any kind. Certainly I'm not bringing a gun to a fist fight when I point out I'm in disagreement with the implication of this hyperbolic statement

How many post season crumbles have we seen Herbert do..

It implies there's a plethora of Herbert playoff 'crumbles' when in fact he's had one bad playoff game. He's in good company, Brady himself had some statistical playoff stinkers, including 3 Int's on 4 separate occasions, it happens. Let's not ignore the glaring issue for Herbert when passing judgement, he could supplant Andrew Luck as the poster child for why team building needs to start with the trenches. There's a lot to the game besides the stat sheet. Listing Herbert's shiny toys as a rookie is making a pink hat argument, it ignores the horrible line and **** offensive coaching he's dealt with. His offensive coaching improved last year, the line still sucked and with the exception of McConkey the toys were far more pedestrian. Herbert's future is bright, recency bias clouded your judgement when you referred to his playoff 'crumbles'

OFC ultimately Herbert's playoff career is screwed and not just because of playing in the AFC West, although that is a serious handicap. His fate is tied to the institutional loser DNA baked into the Chargers, forever the bridesmaid never the bride.

 

[Real fan 02]

Oh my confrontation averse friend, adult disagreement on a point shouldn't be taken as animosity of any kind. Certainly I'm not bringing a gun to a fist fight when I point out I'm in disagreement with the implication of this hyperbolic statement



It implies there's a plethora of Herbert playoff 'crumbles' when in fact he's had one bad playoff game. He's in good company, Brady himself had some statistical playoff stinkers, including 3 Int's on 4 separate occasions, it happens. Let's not ignore the glaring issue for Herbert when passing judgement, he could supplant Andrew Luck as the poster child for why team building needs to start with the trenches. There's a lot to the game besides the stat sheet. Listing Herbert's shiny toys as a rookie is making a pink hat argument, it ignores the horrible line and **** offensive coaching he's dealt with. His offensive coaching improved last year, the line still sucked and with the exception of McConkey the toys were far more pedestrian. Herbert's future is bright, recency bias clouded your judgement when you referred to his playoff 'crumbles'

OFC ultimately Herbert's playoff career is screwed and not just because of playing in the AFC West, although that is a serious handicap. His fate is tied to the institutional loser DNA baked into the Chargers DNA, forever the bridesmaid never the bride.

Got ya my guy.. here's what I'm saying in no way am I implying that Herbert will never be great i was trying to express that some guys show signs of greatness and the ability to win early on and some takes time maybe into thier early 30s.. Stafford was a good QB early on but a turn over machine and got with Mcvey and won a ring. Allen by year 3 showed his greatness, Mahomes when he became a starter showed his right away even coming here and beating us week 1.

Lamar who they said should have been wr won MVP in year 2, big Ben won a ring his second season, Burrow showed right away his greatness making it to a superbowl his second season.. our very own GOAT won it all his second season and becoming a starter.. as we all know..

None of this is a knock at all on Herbert.. I personally feel Drakes potential is higher IMO. I was just simply expressing that there are many examples of guy's who have shown greatness earlier in thier careers.

 

[jmt57]

A few more ... ahem, 'experts' weigh in on 2025 NFL quarterbacks.

2025 NFL QB Rankings: Top quarterback tiers, breakdowns, analysis from Chris Simms ahead of 2025 NFL season

Is Aaron Rodgers still elite? Is Baker Mayfield better than Jalen Hurts? Is Patrick Mahomes a top-three quarterback in football? Here is what Chris Simms thinks heading into the 2025 NFL season.

www.nbcsports.com

Chris Simms ranks them thusly, as of this June 14, 2025 article:

Tier One: "The Core Four"
(1) Lamar Jackson, (2) Josh Allen, (3) Joe Burrow, (4) Patrick Mahomes

Tier Two: "Surgicality"
The three quarterbacks in this tier are surgically accurate and simply don’t miss many throws.
(5) Jayden Daniels, (6) Matthew Stafford, (7) CJ Stroud

Tier Three: "Pocket Rockets"
This tier highlights a pair of signal-callers who use their explosive arms to make no shortage of big-time throws.
(8) Justin Herbert, (9) Baker Mayfield

Tier Four: "The Truth Hurts": (10) Jalen Hurts

Tier Five: "The Scheme Dream"
QBs who aren’t perfect. With the right head coach guiding them, they have more than enough talent to lead their teams to success.
(11) Brock Purdy, Aaron Rodgers, Jared Goff

Tier Six: "Want To Touch Their Hiney"
Inspired by “Billy Madison,” this tier includes two quarterbacks who are “so close to getting everything they want.”
However, they have a couple of flaws that must be fixed.
(14) Kyler Murray, Jordan Love

Tier Seven: "Ready To Launch"
Much like “Needs More Info,” this tier features two rookie QBs.
These rookies have Simms much more excited than Penix and Maye, though.
(16) Bo Nix, Caleb Williams

Tier Eight: "Is This It?"
This tier is a trio of quarterbacks who were once considered rising stars. Now, they are fighting for their NFL futures.
(18) Dak Prescott, Tua Tagovailoa, Trevor Lawrence

Tier Nine: "Needs More Info"
Six quarterbacks were selected in the first round of the 2024 NFL Draft.
This tier consists of two of those players who Simms needs more data on before making a full, complete evaluation.
(21) Michael Penix Jr., Drake Maye

Tier Ten: "Don’t You Forget About Me"
No, this is not a scene from “The Breakfast Club.” This tier is all about Kirk Cousins.

Tier Eleven: "Escaped From New York"
This tier is a unique one, composed of two quarterbacks who had tough stints with the Jets as a rookie before revitalizing their careers with new teams.
(24) Sam Darnold, Geno Smith

Tier Twelve: "Clock’s Ticking" -- Russell Wilson
This tier is a tough place to be for a 36-year-old quarterback who is very possibly getting his last chance to start in the NFL.

Tier Thirteen: "Ready Rookie" -- Cam Ward

Tier Fourteen: "Still On The Pot"
(28) Daniel Jones (Colts), Justin Fields (New York Jets)

Tier Fifteen: "Young Mysteries"
two young quarterbacks who could become stars or could be busts.
(30) Bryce Young, JJ McCarthy

Tier Sixteen: "Wow or Whoa?" -- (32) Anthony Richardson

Tier Seventeen: "Backup Supremes"
(33) Joe Flacco, Malik Willis, Marcus Mariota,

Tier Eighteen: "The Caretakers"
(36) Gardner Minshew (Kansas City Chiefs), Aidan O’Connell (Las Vegas Raiders), Andy Dalton (Carolina Panthers), Mac Jones (San Francisco 49ers), Tyrod Taylor (New York Jets), Jarrett Stidham (Denver Broncos)
Other quarterbacks in this tier include Kenny Pickett (Cleveland Browns), Cooper Rush (Baltimore Ravens), Mason Rudolph (Pittsburgh Steelers) and (45) Jimmy Garoppolo (Los Angeles Rams).

(39) Mac Jones (San Francisco 49ers)
Simms is high on Jones, a talented thrower who “knows how to locate the ball in the proper areas.” Simms predicts that with a full season under Kyle Shanahan, the 2021 first-round pick could have a legitimate NFL future.

(41) Jarrett Stidham (Denver Broncos)
Stidham “could be maybe something more” if he gets an opportunity to start for an extended period of time.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Yeah, Chris Simms.

 

[Real fan 02]

A few more ... ahem, 'experts' weigh in on 2025 NFL quarterbacks.

2025 NFL QB Rankings: Top quarterback tiers, breakdowns, analysis from Chris Simms ahead of 2025 NFL season

Is Aaron Rodgers still elite? Is Baker Mayfield better than Jalen Hurts? Is Patrick Mahomes a top-three quarterback in football? Here is what Chris Simms thinks heading into the 2025 NFL season.

www.nbcsports.com

Chris Simms ranks them thusly, as of this June 14, 2025 article:

Tier One: "The Core Four"
(1) Lamar Jackson, (2) Josh Allen, (3) Joe Burrow, (4) Patrick Mahomes

Tier Two: "Surgicality"
The three quarterbacks in this tier are surgically accurate and simply don’t miss many throws.
(5) Jayden Daniels, (6) Matthew Stafford, (7) CJ Stroud

Tier Three: "Pocket Rockets"
This tier highlights a pair of signal-callers who use their explosive arms to make no shortage of big-time throws.
(8) Justin Herbert, (9) Baker Mayfield

Tier Four: "The Truth Hurts": (10) Jalen Hurts

Tier Five: "The Scheme Dream"
QBs who aren’t perfect. With the right head coach guiding them, they have more than enough talent to lead their teams to success.
(11) Brock Purdy, Aaron Rodgers, Jared Goff

Tier Six: "Want To Touch Their Hiney"
Inspired by “Billy Madison,” this tier includes two quarterbacks who are “so close to getting everything they want.”
However, they have a couple of flaws that must be fixed.
(14) Kyler Murray, Jordan Love

Tier Seven: "Ready To Launch"
Much like “Needs More Info,” this tier features two rookie QBs.
These rookies have Simms much more excited than Penix and Maye, though.
(16) Bo Nix, Caleb Williams

Tier Eight: "Is This It?"
This tier is a trio of quarterbacks who were once considered rising stars. Now, they are fighting for their NFL futures.
(18) Dak Prescott, Tua Tagovailoa, Trevor Lawrence

Tier Nine: "Needs More Info"
Six quarterbacks were selected in the first round of the 2024 NFL Draft.
This tier consists of two of those players who Simms needs more data on before making a full, complete evaluation.
(21) Michael Penix Jr., Drake Maye

Tier Ten: "Don’t You Forget About Me"
No, this is not a scene from “The Breakfast Club.” This tier is all about Kirk Cousins.

Tier Eleven: "Escaped From New York"
This tier is a unique one, composed of two quarterbacks who had tough stints with the Jets as a rookie before revitalizing their careers with new teams.
(24) Sam Darnold, Geno Smith

Tier Twelve: "Clock’s Ticking" -- Russell Wilson
This tier is a tough place to be for a 36-year-old quarterback who is very possibly getting his last chance to start in the NFL.

Tier Thirteen: "Ready Rookie" -- Cam Ward

Tier Fourteen: "Still On The Pot"
(28) Daniel Jones (Colts), Justin Fields (New York Jets)

Tier Fifteen: "Young Mysteries"
two young quarterbacks who could become stars or could be busts.
(30) Bryce Young, JJ McCarthy

Tier Sixteen: "Wow or Whoa?" -- (32) Anthony Richardson

Tier Seventeen: "Backup Supremes"
(33) Joe Flacco, Malik Willis, Marcus Mariota,

Tier Eighteen: "The Caretakers"
(36) Gardner Minshew (Kansas City Chiefs), Aidan O’Connell (Las Vegas Raiders), Andy Dalton (Carolina Panthers), Mac Jones (San Francisco 49ers), Tyrod Taylor (New York Jets), Jarrett Stidham (Denver Broncos)
Other quarterbacks in this tier include Kenny Pickett (Cleveland Browns), Cooper Rush (Baltimore Ravens), Mason Rudolph (Pittsburgh Steelers) and (45) Jimmy Garoppolo (Los Angeles Rams).

(39) Mac Jones (San Francisco 49ers)
Simms is high on Jones, a talented thrower who “knows how to locate the ball in the proper areas.” Simms predicts that with a full season under Kyle Shanahan, the 2021 first-round pick could have a legitimate NFL future.

(41) Jarrett Stidham (Denver Broncos)
Stidham “could be maybe something more” if he gets an opportunity to start for an extended period of time.

Wasn't Sims a career back up himself? Couldn't make it in Tampa Bay because he couldn't learn grudens offense and command the huddle??

I ask.. because I noticed alot of ex NFL players especially back up QBs when they get media jobs they seem to diminish the value of Superbowl winning QBs.. I love Jackson, Burrow and Allen however they have 0 rings compared to the 5 Mahomes and hurts have collectively.

Brady faced this for years... Manning was always somehow considered ahead of him but TB12 had the rings to back it up. He looses me even mentioning Stidham...

The season can't start fast enough.. these guys are bored..

 

[signbabybrady]

Wasn't Sims a career back up himself? Couldn't make it in Tampa Bay because he couldn't learn grudens offense and command the huddle??

I ask.. because I noticed alot of ex NFL players especially back up QBs when they get media jobs they seem to diminish the value of Superbowl winning QBs.. I love Jackson, Burrow and Allen however they have 0 rings compared to the 5 Mahomes and hurts have collectively.

Brady faced this for years... Manning was always somehow considered ahead of him but TB12 had the rings to back it up. He looses me even mentioning Stidham...

The season can't start fast enough.. these guys are bored..

5?

 

[Real fan 02]

5?

Sorry type error Mahomes has been to 5. He's kinda getting the Brady disrespect. From this guy...

 

[Real fan 02]

Yeah, Chris Simms.

I want to see TB12 list.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Rather than start a new thread about young Drake. I just want to point out all the news he has been in lately and I consider it all good. The fact that he is working with a good portion of his offensive weapons down in Florida before camp starts shows me he wants to win, wants to get better and is becoming that leader. The fact that he just got married and is back at it is worth noting coupled with the fact that he and his new bride just donated to charity all their wedding gifts speaks about the kind of couple they are. Then today I saw a video of him falling back off a float in a lake while throwing a football to Rham who is on a jet ski and makes the catch just shows me he likes to have fun, do some crazy stuff with his guys and fingers crossed can pull off some of that unreal stuff we have seen from Brady and Mahomes. I really am pulling for this kid not just because we need "that guy" but because I think he is genuinely a good dude. I hope this season he stays healthy, has fun and helps bring this team back into the conversation and shows everyone he is the future. Lets go #10!

 

[jmt57]

Another 'expert', Cody Benjamin with his 2025 QB tiers, published June 19:

Ranking 2025 NFL QBs by tiers: Jayden Daniels joins elite crop; Caleb Williams among promising prospects

Where does your favorite signal-caller reside?

www.cbssports.com

Tier 1: "Transcendent Talents" (6) -- #1-#6
Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels

Tier 2: "Borderline Stars" (8) -- #7-#14
Matthew Stafford, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Jordan Love, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield, C.J. Stroud

Tier 3: "Promising Prospects" (4) -- #15-#18
Bo Nix, Caleb Williams, J.J. McCarthy, Drake Maye

Tier 4: "Volatile Veterans" (6) -- #19-#24
Aaron Rodgers, Geno Smith, Trevor Lawrence, Tua Tagovailoa, Kyler Murray, Sam Darnold

Tier 5: "Prized Project" (1) -- #25
Cam Ward

Tier 6: "Holdovers and Placeholders" (7) -- #26-#32
Justin Fields, Russell Wilson, Bryce Young, Michael Penix Jr., Joe Flacco, Anthony Richardson, Tyler Shough


Drake Maye
The New England Patriots didn't ruin Maye's confidence or mobility despite surrounding the rookie with measly protection and weapons in 2024. Now the North Carolina product has Mike Vrabel and Josh McDaniels calling the shots, with added support across the lineup. A solid leap is expected here.



Seems to be way too premature to place Jayden Daniels in the top tier of NFL quarterbacks, in my opinion.
Daniels being #6 overall is one thing. Placing him in the top tier is another.

Only reason Tyler Shough is even mentioned is due to the author having all 32 teams represented.

 

[signbabybrady]

Rather than start a new thread about young Drake. I just want to point out all the news he has been in lately and I consider it all good. The fact that he is working with a good portion of his offensive weapons down in Florida before camp starts shows me he wants to win, wants to get better and is becoming that leader. The fact that he just got married and is back at it is worth noting coupled with the fact that he and his new bride just donated to charity all their wedding gifts speaks about the kind of couple they are. Then today I saw a video of him falling back off a float in a lake while throwing a football to Rham who is on a jet ski and makes the catch just shows me he likes to have fun, do some crazy stuff with his guys and fingers crossed can pull off some of that unreal stuff we have seen from Brady and Mahomes. I really am pulling for this kid not just because we need "that guy" but because I think he is genuinely a good dude. I hope this season he stays healthy, has fun and helps bring this team back into the conversation and shows everyone he is the future. Lets go #10!

 

[jmt57]

Last 'Expert Ranking' for me.
This one is from Pro Football Focus, published in May.

The season cannot start soon enough.

PFF Quarterback Rankings: All 32 starters ahead of the 2025 NFL season

As expected, this list kicks off with Kansas City's Patrick Mahomes, but Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow and Josh Allen are nipping at his heels.

www.pff.com

Tier 1: Elite -- (#1-#4)
Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen

Tier 2: High-End Starters -- (#5-#8)
Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Matthew Stafford, Justin Herbert

Tier 3a: Solid starters who have flashed high-end play -- (#9-#11)
Jared Goff, Geno Smith, Brock Purdy

Tier 3b: Solid Starters, but they need more help -- (#12-#18)
Jordan Love, Baker Mayfield, C.J. Stroud, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence, Dak Prescott, Tua Tagovailoa

Tier 4: Young players with a wide range of potential outcomes -- (#19-#25)
Bo Nix, Bryce Young, J.J. McCarthy, Drake Maye, Michael Penix Jr., Caleb Williams, Cameron Ward

Tier 5: Veterans capable of solid play but could be quickly replaced -- (#26-#28)
Sam Darnold, Russell Wilson, Justin Fields

Tier 6: Low-end starters and not long-term options -- (#29-#32)
Joe Flacco, Anthony Richardson, Mason Rudolph, Tyler Shough


22. Drake Maye, New England Patriots
Maye went through the expected rookie growing pains, finishing the year with a 64.9 passing grade and more turnover-worthy plays (16) than big-time throws (14). He faced one of the league’s worst offensive lines and had limited support in the receiving corps. With Mike Vrabel taking over as head coach and upgrades around him, the No. 3 overall pick from 2024 is positioned to take a step forward in Year 2.



(Due to this being published in May there was no mention of Aaron Rodgers.)

 

[signbabybrady]

Last 'Expert Ranking' for me.
This one is from Pro Football Focus, published in May.

The season cannot start soon enough.

PFF Quarterback Rankings: All 32 starters ahead of the 2025 NFL season

As expected, this list kicks off with Kansas City's Patrick Mahomes, but Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow and Josh Allen are nipping at his heels.

www.pff.com

Tier 1: Elite -- (#1-#4)
Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen

Tier 2: High-End Starters -- (#5-#8)
Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Matthew Stafford, Justin Herbert

Tier 3a: Solid starters who have flashed high-end play -- (#9-#11)
Jared Goff, Geno Smith, Brock Purdy

Tier 3b: Solid Starters, but they need more help -- (#12-#18)
Jordan Love, Baker Mayfield, C.J. Stroud, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence, Dak Prescott, Tua Tagovailoa

Tier 4: Young players with a wide range of potential outcomes -- (#19-#25)
Bo Nix, Bryce Young, J.J. McCarthy, Drake Maye, Michael Penix Jr., Caleb Williams, Cameron Ward

Tier 5: Veterans capable of solid play but could be quickly replaced -- (#26-#28)
Sam Darnold, Russell Wilson, Justin Fields

Tier 6: Low-end starters and not long-term options -- (#29-#32)
Joe Flacco, Anthony Richardson, Mason Rudolph, Tyler Shough


22. Drake Maye, New England Patriots
Maye went through the expected rookie growing pains, finishing the year with a 64.9 passing grade and more turnover-worthy plays (16) than big-time throws (14). He faced one of the league’s worst offensive lines and had limited support in the receiving corps. With Mike Vrabel taking over as head coach and upgrades around him, the No. 3 overall pick from 2024 is positioned to take a step forward in Year 2.



(Due to this being published in May there was no mention of Aaron Rodgers.)

Mahomes deserves his own tier 1. No one in the league is close.