Agree or disagree? The Maye bar is ankle high.

[n1997y]

…His 1st playoff game first was against Jax. The Chargers put up 30 and lost on a walk off FG, hard to put that on Herbert when they led by 10 with @ 5 minutes left.

so that means the Chargers O had the ball with less than 5 minutes left and a lead? In other words they had the chance to put the game away. And didn’t. Why is it hard to put that on Herbert? Please explain, as I either wasn’t paying attention or have forgotten. Thanks.

 

[maust]

Hypothetical Trade:
Herbert for Maye... i'd be hard pressed to say no...

I pondered including that when I made my last post. Then I went and looked at Herbert's AAV of $52.5M and didn't. But talent wise, with no contract consideration, I'm not sure I'd say no either. The deciding factor being their contracts makes it nonsensical for a Pats fan to be pissing on Herbert and lumping him in with Lawrence who has pretty much displayed the same mediocre ability throughout his admittedly limited career arc. Herbert has shown the ability to progress when it comes to protecting the ball, that's a huge plus over Lawrence whose judgement is suspect.

It's great to have a QB that'll win you games, sucks having one that costs you the opportunity.

 

[sb1]

Hypothetical Trade:
Herbert for Maye... i'd be hard pressed to say no...

$110M dead cap hit to LAC if that happens. Oooof

 

[Pape]

$110M dead cap hit to LAC if that happens. Oooof

just a thought exercise... i didn't consider stuff like that because it will not happen

 

[sb1]

just a thought exercise... i didn't consider stuff like that because it will not happen

I would think about it too fwiw.

Chargers really hamstrung themselves and their flexibility with his contract

 

[maust]

so that means the Chargers O had the ball with less than 5 minutes left and a lead? In other words they had the chance to put the game away. And didn’t. Why is it hard to put that on Herbert? Please explain, as I either wasn’t paying attention or have forgotten. Thanks.

Sure great QB's should be able to get a 1st down but young ones run the plays that get sent in. Bosa's unsportsmanlike gifting Jax the ball at the 1, a blown block sack on 1st down didn't exactly put the kid in a position to succeed I still vividly recall cussing Staley out watching him coach not to lose that entire 4th quarter, perhaps we did watch different games, although I may also have had more money on the Chargers than you which may have influenced the cussing a touch

 

[maust]

I would think about it too fwiw.

Chargers really hamstrung themselves and their flexibility with his contract

Did they though? Herbert's contract isn't exactly Watson's, it doesn't get onerous until 2027 at which point it may be livable by comparison to other starting deals and if it isn't the cost to cut bait is survivable.

 

[n1997y]

just a thought exercise... i didn't consider stuff like that because it will not happen

So without looking at contracts it’s choosing which of two young players you want.

Herbert has been in the league five years, is 41-38 in regular season. Has been to the playoffs twice, compiling an 0-2 record. His regular season passing percentage is 64.0% and he has rushed for a career total of 1217 yards in the regular season, or an average of 243 yards per season and 15 yards per game. In the playoffs his passing percentage has dropped to 52.0% and he has rushed for 12 yards or an average of 6 yards per game.

Maye has played one NFL season, in a total ****show he went 3-9 but showed some promise with a 66.6% passing percentage and 421 yards rushing, averaging 33 yards per game.

It seems both are still ascending. Which one has the potential to ascend higher? Why do you say that?

Another question: are you choosing them for 2025 results, over the next four years (Maye’s current contract), or their careers?

Also, here’s another point of view to consider: Is Chargers QB Justin Herbert in danger of losing elite status in 2025?

 

[maust]

just a thought exercise... i didn't consider stuff like that because it will not happen

In a vacuum it's not something most of us wouldn't consider, which speaks to Herbert's progress vs Lawrence's. We expect Maye will improve year over year but we know Herbert has already shown that capability, Lawrence not so much. In an equal contract situation I think I'd still go with Maye over Herbert as the potential is, I believe, greater but to your point I would think about it.

 

[Pape]

So without looking at contracts it’s choosing which of two young players you want.

Herbert has been in the league five years, is 41-38 in regular season. Has been to the playoffs twice, compiling an 0-2 record. His regular season passing percentage is 64.0% and he has rushed for a career total of 1217 yards in the regular season, or an average of 243 yards per season and 15 yards per game. In the playoffs his passing percentage has dropped to 52.0% and he has rushed for 12 yards or an average of 6 yards per game.

Maye has played one NFL season, in a total ****show he went 3-9 but showed some promise with a 66.6% passing percentage and 421 yards rushing, averaging 33 yards per game.

It seems both are still ascending. Which one has the potential to ascend higher? Why do you say that?

Also, here’s another point of view to consider: Is Chargers QB Justin Herbert in danger of losing elite status in 2025?

Herberts career pressure rate is higher than what Maye faced last year... his int rate is half that of Mayes... he threw for 30+ tds twice, 38 tds in year 2...

Of course i am going to strongly consider that move, if there are no other considerations on the board (like contracts)...

Guess I have a higher opinion of Herbert than most... ymmv

 

[n1997y]

So without looking at contracts it’s choosing which of two young players you want.

Herbert has been in the league five years, is 41-38 in regular season. Has been to the playoffs twice, compiling an 0-2 record. His regular season passing percentage is 64.0% and he has rushed for a career total of 1217 yards in the regular season, or an average of 243 yards per season and 15 yards per game. In the playoffs his passing percentage has dropped to 52.0% and he has rushed for 12 yards or an average of 6 yards per game.

Maye has played one NFL season, in a total ****show he went 3-9 but showed some promise with a 66.6% passing percentage and 421 yards rushing, averaging 33 yards per game.

It seems both are still ascending. Which one has the potential to ascend higher? Why do you say that?

Another question: are you choosing them for 2025 results, over the next four years (Maye’s current contract), or their careers?

Also, here’s another point of view to consider: Is Chargers QB Justin Herbert in danger of losing elite status in 2025?

Answering my own questions, I’ll take Maye. For this year, duration of his contract, and his career.

I think Maye’s body of work last year was as good or better than Herbert’s for his career, in an absolutely disastrous situation.

This year he’s gotten a tremendous upgrade on coaching staff and in talent around him. I see no reason that either of those will cause his performance to slip.

TBF there’s the possibility that Herbert would respond well to the changes in coaching and supporting cast. OTOH winning and losing and performing are all habits, and Herbert has had five years to show us who he habitually is. I’d rather have Maye, and see what habits he develops.

I think it will be fun to watch his development.

 

[n1997y]

Herberts career pressure rate is higher than what Maye faced last year... his int rate is half that of Mayes... he threw for 30+ tds twice, 38 tds in year 2...

Of course i am going to strongly consider that move, if there are no other considerations on the board (like contracts)...

Guess I have a higher opinion of Herbert than most... ymmv

So Herbert has faced more pressure over his career that Maye. And he has shown much less in his run game.

I had a good impression of Herbert when he first came into the league. Haven’t paid enough attention to the Chargers to know why his growth hasn’t been as stellar as I expected. Seems from what you say he’s not in a good situation for that, which is too bad. Leaves an open question about how much it would help him to be in a better situation.

Thing is, I like to watch players develop. Maye is still mostly a blank canvas, and has a lot of talent. Until he shows otherwise I think he has the potential to be as good or better than any other QB in the league at this time, by the time he finishes his career. I’m willing to run with that until he shows otherwise.

 

[maust]

I think it's fair to say Herbert has done fairly well considering he was drafted by a team that had just hired a defense first HC and has yet to play behind even an average O-line, his lines have ranged from bad to pitiful. No matter what we may think of his character Harbaugh is a good head coach and certainly puts his QB's in position to succeed. TBH I think that's arguably my biggest knock on Lawrence, 3 years with noted QB whisperer Doug Pederson as his coach and he simply hasn't progressed much. That's fairly damning and makes comparing Maye's ceiling to him laughable

 

[Real fan 02]

One, that's how many. Herbert has been to the playoffs twice in his 5 year career, the first 4 of which were under a defensive minded head coach. His 1st playoff game was against Jax. The Chargers put up 30 and lost on a walk off FG, hard to put that on Herbert when they led by 10 with @ 5 minutes left. This past year the entire team pissed down its collective playoff leg, Herbert included. Two games, that's the sum of his playoff career. While it's true they were both losses, the overall results were hardly the 'same.' Two dissimilar playoff games under two different HC's is hardly enough to pass judgement on his playoff career. Herbert is a 26 year old work in progress, he has improved year to year and I wouldn't bet against him continuing to.

My guy maust good points you make. However let me ask? Did Herbert have Allen, Williams, eckler when he came in the league?? I'm sure Staley wasn't coaching him to turn the ball over? I'm sure Harbaugh wasn't either.

As Brady has said the QB touches the ball more than anyone it's his job to make good decisions. Why is it that Mahomes showed right away his greatness? Allen showed his in year 3... Jackson won MVP in year 2.. there are so many other examples? So should we wait until Drake is 28 or 29 to say whether he's a great QB? What you put on film is what you are as a player. Am I sitting here saying Herbert can never improve? Of course not. But it's getting a bit old with some saying Herbert is this great QB. He's good with the potential to maybe be great.

 

[Pape]

TBH I think that's arguably my biggest knock on Lawrence, 3 years with noted QB whisperer Doug Pederson as his coach and he simply hasn't progressed much. That's fairly damning and makes comparing Maye's ceiling to him laughable

I think you nailed it... at this point, if you proposed that same trade but with Lawrence, I'd say no.

 

[maust]

My guy maust good points you make. However let me ask? Did Herbert have Allen, Williams, eckler when he came in the league?? I'm sure Staley wasn't coaching him to turn the ball over? I'm sure Harbaugh wasn't either.

How did having decent receivers keep Herbert upright with a team asking the kid to throw it 600+ times a season? Herbert's int rate and TD to INT numbers have been good to great, I have no idea what you're trying to say there but his int rate was .6 last year. The kid is not a turnover machine by any means, quite the opposite. Staley hung him out to dry heaving the ball that many times behind that line ffs, the kid took a beating, racked up the yards and protected the ball. Outside of that team wide poor performance in January I'm not sure what more could have been expected of him

Why is it that Mahomes showed right away his greatness?

dafuq dude, Mahomie sat for his 1st year and started out year two in an ideal situation, stacked team and one of the best offensive minds the game has seen as his HC. Mahomes is a singular talent but he was also gifted a fantastic situation, arguably a silver platter set up, to start his career. It is laughable to compare his and (to a lesser extent) Jackson's situations starting out to Allen's, Herbert's or Mayes.

Am I sitting here saying Herbert can never improve? Of course not. But it's getting a bit old with some saying Herbert is this great QB. He's good with the potential to maybe be great.

Which is pretty much what I have said. The kid has been good under less than ideal circumstances and more to the point of this thread, is continuing to progress. I'm not pumping his tires, just pointing out he has done well all things considered. You were the one that threw shade with your "How many post season crumbles have we seen Herbert do.. last season he supposed had a better coach in Harbaugh.. same results" comment. What I did was call you on it by answering you, Herbert has had one poor post season game and it was most decidedly a total team 'effort' from Harbaugh on down. Ice up son, you made a hyperbolic comment and got called on it. If that's the worst that happens to you today you're having a great day lol

 

[maust]

I think you nailed it... at this point, if you proposed that same trade but with Lawrence, I'd say no.

And if all you said was "no" I'd be marveling at your restraint. I'd go to at least 'HELL NO!' if asked the same.

 

[Real fan 02]

How did having decent receivers keep Herbert upright with a team asking the kid to throw it 600+ times a season? Herbert's int rate and TD to INT numbers have been good to great, I have no idea what you're trying to say there but his int rate was .6 last year. The kid is not a turnover machine by any means, quite the opposite. Staley hung him out to dry heaving the ball that many times behind that line ffs, the kid took a beating, racked up the yards and protected the ball. Outside of that team wide poor performance in January I'm not sure what more could have been expected of him



dafuq dude, Mahomie sat for his 1st year and started out year two in an ideal situation, stacked team and one of the best offensive minds the game has seen as his HC. Mahomes is a singular talent but he was also gifted a fantastic situation, arguably a silver platter set up, to start his career. It is laughable to compare his and (to a lesser extent) Jackson's situations starting out to Allen's, Herbert's or Mayes.



Which is pretty much what I have said. The kid has been good under less than ideal circumstances and more to the point of this thread, is continuing to progress. I'm not pumping his tires, just pointing out he has done well all things considered. You were the one that threw shade with your "How many post season crumbles have we seen Herbert do.. last season he supposed had a better coach in Harbaugh.. same results" comment. What I did was call you on it by answering you, Herbert has had one poor post season game and it was most decidedly a total team 'effort' from Harbaugh on down. Ice up son, you made a hyperbolic comment and got called on it. If that's the worst that happens to you today you're having a great day lol

My guy... I'm not your nemesis..I'm in agreement with you.. im just expressing it differently that's all my guy.. it's all good

 

[Real fan 02]

Hypothetical Trade:
Herbert for Maye... i'd be hard pressed to say no...

Highly agree my guy... you always have a great way to make sense with a short statement my guy!

 

[State]

You can definitely see the poor Line and receiver play effecting Maye.

That’s why Hunter Henry is the security blanket for Maye. If he is absent from the starting lineup, Maye starts forcing it. McDaniels will use a heavy dose of TreVeyon I Love Jesus Henderson.

But how many wheel routes by a RB can McDaniels call in one game?